OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Off Season We dont need a QB Edition

[bigdaddyk88]

Uh where are you getting your QB draft projections from?

Kiper has all 3 gone before 9. DJ has all 3 gone by 21. Pff has Milroe as a 2nd round pick to the jets.

 

[Peat]

Kiper has all 3 gone before 9. DJ has all 3 gone by 21. Pff has Milroe as a 2nd round pick to the jets.

So you've taken the most optimistic possible possibilities from a bunch of mocks that are still early and are going with that probably happening? And not, say, 2 out of those 3 you mentioned having Dart as a non top 10 pick suggesting that's quite likely?

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[Peat]

View attachment 999296

Well if that ain't some useful shit.

I'm not going to say it's impossible for Dart to go that high. Particularly with a crucial bit of the process left. But probable, right now, based on the mocks? Yeeaaaah...

Fun to note that site has all the DL going after 21. Feel pretty good at least one of them will be there.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

So you've taken the most optimistic possible possibilities from a bunch of mocks that are still early and are going with that probably happening? And not, say, 2 out of those 3 you mentioned having Dart as a non top 10 pick suggesting that's quite likely?

The Giants prefer Dart over Sanders. I would not take neither Sanders or Dart in the top 10. Sanders ceiling is Tua his floor is Minshew. Ward has the most arm talent but is closer to Love or Geno. Dart i hate the offense he plays in and he needs to redshirt like JJ. I kinda hope Dart is available at 21 so teams will trade up for him

 

[WickedWrister]

Also this should be good for our comp formula. There was a rumor that Cleveland was going to wait to sign Russ until after the draft which would purposely negate any potential comp pick we would receive.

Kozora RT'ing an OverTheCap contributor, if Russ hits all those guarantees and gets the 21m we could be looking at a 3rd round comp pick for him.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Potentially 2 more 3rd round comp picks depending on how Fields and RW play to go with the 3rd we got from moore. I hope Khan plays the comp game every year like Bmore

 

[WickedWrister]

Potentially 2 more 3rd round comp picks depending on how Fields and RW play to go with the 3rd we got from moore. I hope Khan plays the comp game every year like Bmore

That's the best outcome, actually 4 if they max out on all their playing time incentives.

Probably a more reasonable projection. And Rodgers doesn't count against this since he was released.

So we root for Russ and Justin to keep their jobs in NYC this year fellas, OK?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Late to the party but Dart is probably going to be an early 2nd rounder. I could actually see the Giants taking him with their high 2nd and giving him a pure redshirt rookie year. There is a zero percent chance anyone takes him in the top-5, it’s a laughable suggestion to make.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Late to the party but Dart is probably going to be an early 2nd rounder. I could actually see the Giants taking him with their high 2nd and giving him a pure redshirt rookie year. There is a zero percent chance anyone takes him in the top-5, it’s a laughable suggestion to make.

If your going to redshirt him you want that 5th year option so you want him in the 1st round. Qbs get overdraftted every year Ian and DJ were on mcafee talking about how Nix was going to be a 2nd round pick until he wasn’t

 

[Empoleon8771]

If your going to redshirt him you want that 5th year option so you want him in the 1st round. Qbs get overdraftted every year Ian and DJ were on mcafee talking about how Nix was going to be a 2nd round pick until he wasn’t

The Giants can trade up from their early 2nd to a late 1st if they care about that 5th year option with Dart.

I just don't see any way that any team takes him higher than a late 1st.

 

[Pens1566]

Dart is gonna end up somewhere in the 1st. Too much smoke from too many mocks to think otherwise. If someone doesn't use their own on him, they'll trade back into the 1st to grab him.

 

[Coastal Kev]

What are the Steelers doing???????????? They have morphed into the mid 2000's browns. The Metcalfe trade reeks of a desperate staff........completely nonsensical based on where the current roster lies.

Signing TJ?????? Why??? To what point??? If the MORANs had a brain, they would be trading anything of value to stockpile picks, fire the entire front office and coaching staff and planning for a new future.

WHAT A COMPLETE DISASTER. They are the Pirates 3.0, they're not even attempting to pretend like they're trying to compete.

2025- WORST OFFSEASON EVER

 

[Empoleon8771]

What are the Steelers doing???????????? They have morphed into the mid 2000's browns. The Metcalfe trade reeks of a desperate staff........completely nonsensical based on where the current roster lies.

Signing TJ?????? Why??? To what point??? If the MORANs had a brain, they would be trading anything of value to stockpile picks, fire the entire front office and coaching staff and planning for a new future.

WHAT A COMPLETE DISASTER. They are the Pirates 3.0, they're not even attempting to pretend like they're trying to compete.

2025- WORST OFFSEASON EVER

Isn't 9 in the morning too early to be drinking

 

[JTG]

That's the best outcome, actually 4 if they max out on all their playing time incentives.



View attachment 999341

Probably a more reasonable projection. And Rodgers doesn't count against this since he was released.

So we root for Russ and Justin to keep their jobs in NYC this year fellas, OK?

I really am intrigued by it. I brought it up a few weeks ago but I don't quite get the comp stuff and never cared enough to understand, but from the little research I did it looked like we may be comped HEAVILY if Russ and Justin can perform decently well and stay healthy. I do wonder if this was a move by Khan and Weidl because if you are in the 20's a 1 and a 3 gets you knocking to the top 10.

If this season goes poorly, they really should nuke it. This should be the last season without a playoff win or with TJ.

And with 3 comp round picks, they could almost rob Peter to pay Paul also from future years.

 

[JTG]

What are the Steelers doing???????????? They have morphed into the mid 2000's browns. The Metcalfe trade reeks of a desperate staff........completely nonsensical based on where the current roster lies.

Signing TJ?????? Why??? To what point??? If the MORANs had a brain, they would be trading anything of value to stockpile picks, fire the entire front office and coaching staff and planning for a new future.

WHAT A COMPLETE DISASTER. They are the Pirates 3.0, they're not even attempting to pretend like they're trying to compete.

2025- WORST OFFSEASON EVER

Someone had too much sleep.

 

[Peat]

Late to the party but Dart is probably going to be an early 2nd rounder. I could actually see the Giants taking him with their high 2nd and giving him a pure redshirt rookie year. There is a zero percent chance anyone takes him in the top-5, it’s a laughable suggestion to make.

Just going by my own common sense smell test, but if you think Schoen and Daboll basically have this year to save their job, why select any redshirt QB? You're making your own job harder.


In any case, I'm not going to say I know where Dart is going. But anyone who looks at the current mocks and the history of Levis/the 22 draft should be equally uncertain. There is no media consensus on him and even when there is, sometimes they hideously overestimate it. And yes, sometimes they underestimate it too. The latter doesn't remove the possibility of the former.

I really am intrigued by it. I brought it up a few weeks ago but I don't quite get the comp stuff and never cared enough to understand, but from the little research I did it looked like we may be comped HEAVILY if Russ and Justin can perform decently well and stay healthy. I do wonder if this was a move by Khan and Weidl because if you are in the 20's a 1 and a 3 gets you knocking to the top 10.

If this season goes poorly, they really should nuke it. This should be the last season without a playoff win or with TJ.

And with 3 comp round picks, they could almost rob Peter to pay Paul also from future years.

More like 1st and 2nd. But those comp picks let you be more aggressive about trading that 2nd.

 

[pistolpete11]

Bolded right at the end as I think this is the most interesting because a lot of the time, how do you separate?

You're talking about this in the abstract like we haven't wasted countless key strokes detailing the failings of this coaching staff for the last 15 years. I'm not giving them any benefit of doubt.

- I see your argument about being flexible while rebuilding and it changing priorities on who to get in FA. I'm not sure I entirely buy it. This team has handed out plenty of three year of contracts and I see the top teams grabbing one year patches all the time. Maybe the team's situation changes the balance a bit, but I think it's still similar enough that I don't see it really changing the sort of player the team will be bringing in. Maybe a stronger team means looking for less veteran mentors and more guys in their prime, which would help.

The Steelers have the second least amount of dead cap space in the league at ~$3M. Other teams have upwards of $77M. Even if they were to cut their 'big' mistakes in Fitz and Queen next year, they'd only have ~$10M which this year would be around 7th least. I dunno. I think that says something. Maybe they haven't found stars in FA, but they've avoided huge mistakes, too. For a team that is rebuilding, I don't see that as a problem.

I don't follow other teams closely enough to know all the ins and outs and whathaveyous of their roster construction. My gut says the good teams drafted well for a while and found their QB one way or another (but in most cases were drafted) which is what Khan is attempting to do.

- There's definitely scheme issues with all the DL, that's fair, but I still catch myself wondering if extending Highsmith was the right move rather than looking for a tag and trade. Also, while agreeing that unlocking Muth's full pass catching potential would change people's opinions a lot, I think there'd still be a tension that the team can't fully do what it wants. I mean, I already believe in Muth as a top 10-5 receiving TE, and I still find myself wishing for a more do it all TE. But that's being a bit greedy too.

I've thought about trading Highsmith because I think highly of Herbig, but all 3 of Watt, Highsmith, and Herbig have dealt with injuries and this defense really relies on their OLB to get to the QB. Not sure it's a good idea to take away from that depth.

I'm also not really sure how much you could get for him and if it's a pick, you're probably going to have to spend that pick on a OLB. Kind of robbing Peter (or Peater) to pay Paul. Unless they need the cap space, I think it's an unnecessary risk.

- Finally, re draft vs fa/trade. It was more you mentioned it and I disagreed quite a lot than importance.

I think the draft is more important, yeah. You're usually getting your foundational pieces there. But I do think how a team handles trade and FA is still pretty important. That's often the one last foundational piece, or finding key depth, and so on. I think that's particularly so for a team that got themselves pretty behind on the talent front. I don't think the disparity is enough to say good drafting, all's good. If the team is still struggling to recruit the right fits when they next take a shot with a rookie QB, it's going to be an issue - particularly if they spend a lot of draft capital to get that guy.

This team was behind on every front because 1) they were a bit unlucky that some key cogs retired early (Pouncey, DeCastro, Tuitt, Shazier) and 2) they drafted horribly (Pickett, Harris, Bush, Edmunds, Green, etc.) for many years.

I just don't think the answer to that is to run out and spend a bunch of money in FA to fill those needs. It's to start over, do it right, build through the draft, and then look to FA to see what holes you have. Not the other way around.

 

[JTG]

I think TJ finally sounded the horn on how much the OLBs have to take physically in this defense and I'd expect some things to change with the scheme. He said at the end of last year, he just cannot physically play that style anymore, and it would be better for Highsmith and Herbig also to maybe get some more chips instead of having to just go head to head every snap.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Absolutely agree with the not being attractive enough offensively. I am looking forward to seeing the other 10 guys develop on offense knowing that the qb of ghe future will be in college in 25

Again, list the people who have developed on offense under Tomlin?
You'll be "looking forward" for a very long time.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Isn't 9 in the morning too early to be drinking

 

[End of Line]

I think TJ finally sounded the horn on how much the OLBs have to take physically in this defense and I'd expect some things to change with the scheme. He said at the end of last year, he just cannot physically play that style anymore, and it would be better for Highsmith and Herbig also to maybe get some more chips instead of having to just go head to head every snap.

Tomlin changing his defensive scheme? Which hasn’t happened in 10+ years? All they’ll do is have Watt rotate more often with Herbig.

 

[pistolpete11]

I really am intrigued by it. I brought it up a few weeks ago but I don't quite get the comp stuff and never cared enough to understand, but from the little research I did it looked like we may be comped HEAVILY if Russ and Justin can perform decently well and stay healthy. I do wonder if this was a move by Khan and Weidl because if you are in the 20's a 1 and a 3 gets you knocking to the top 10.

I don't totally understand the comp stuff either, but they seem to be very intentionally only signing guys that won't negatively affect their comp picks because their contracts are low enough or because released players don't count towards it (Rodgers, Slay).

From the sounds of it, they did try to make a late push for Fields, so I'm not sure how much the comp stuff was affecting their decision making on their own FA, but I'd say I'm pretty happy with how it turned out....even if it does mean suffering through a year with Rodgers.

If this season goes poorly, they really should nuke it. This should be the last season without a playoff win or with TJ.

Hate to break it ya, but it won't be. They will use the QB excuse and then you've got probably at least 2-3 years while they give the new guy a shot. So for better or worse, TJ is probably a Steeler for life.

 

[pistolpete11]

Tomlin changing his defensive scheme? Which hasn’t happened in 10+ years? All they’ll do is have Watt rotate more often with Herbig.

I think they will have TJ and Highsmith/Herbig swap sides a little more and call that the revolutionary change.

But yes, I don't expect there to be any fundamental changes. Line up and beat your opponent is the only way they know how.

 

[Pens1566]

I think they will have TJ and Highsmith/Herbig swap sides a little more and call that the revolutionary change.

But yes, I don't expect there to be any fundamental changes. Line up and beat your opponent is the only way they know how.

I'm not sure that TJ can lean to the left ...