OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Off Season We dont need a QB Edition

[lastcupever75]

Roethlisberger played with a WR whose prime is top 5 all time. The Steelers offense was very aggressive during that time. They would go for 2 just because.

yes, because..

because the coach doesn't know what he's doing.
like the jax p;layoff game in 2007 where he went for 2 atthe 12 yard line.

like a game at dallas when he went for 2 after early TDs and we wound up chasing points after failing the first time. causing a loss because of it.

and where was AB drafted again?? that was kind of the point

 

[lastcupever75]

Because RW is a hof with 2 sb appearances and was available for free. Kp lost his job to Mason and knew that they would bring in competition for him

so they again missed their elauation on an offesnive player. i'm shocked

 

[lastcupever75]

Brees had just another level of accuracy and is probably the most accurate passer of all time.

But if watching him play isn't enough to convince you, or the 6+ times he led the lead in yards or completion percentage, the Saints for most of his career until the last 4 seasons were not overloaded with talent. They were fairly average apart from QB. Yet with Brees as the QB they finished top 6 in either offensive yards or points in each of his 15 seasons there. Roethlisberger probably had better offensive talent around him on average yet the Steelers only finished that high 4 times total, when AB was at his peak.

i dont disagree with you on the accuracy part. i have him and rodgers both at the top. his balls looked like they would almost skim the defneder's helmet (looking away at the target) and intothe receivers waiting hands on some back shoulder passes.
i do wonder what the yinzer reaction to those type of throws would be though. the "almost intercepetions" western PA stat they would use for ben at times hahaha.

But i'd take brees, as long as you're bringing sean payton with him. a coach who knows the offensive side of the game. great fit for his scheme. good thing for both he failed his physical with the dolphins to stop that signing and payton moved in.
if you don't think things like that matter, what were his numbers with the chargers where he had 2 all time greats at their positions in LT and gates but was coached by martyball shottenheimer. someone who makes cowher and tomlin look aggressive offensively lol

as a poster above said, different QBs with different qualities. i remember watching a saints niner game where i literally thought they were going to have to resessitate brees on the field after a brutal clotheline accross to his neck. than the replays showed the arm got him right at chest level and it shouldn't have even been a penalty. he stayed down for a long ass time on that. how would he fare against the ravens 2-3 times a year? we saw the damage they inflicted on a much bigger QB

 

[bigdaddyk88]

so they again missed their elauation on an offesnive player. i'm shocked

Not so sure you can miss on a vet minimum player

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

so they again missed their elauation on an offesnive player. i'm shocked

Smith and Wilson clashed and didn’t get along.

Now Tomlin’s brilliant new plan is to bring in another old and washed QB who famously wants to control everything and run his own offense.

How’s that definition of insanity go again….?

 

[JTG]

I had a peek at the Browns reddit to try and get a feel for what they're hearing/feeling about it. A point one person made that had me thinking is that the best spells Stefanski has had as a playcaller are Cousins in Minnesota and Flacco. Accurate veteran guys without great legs. If you buy into Sanders being good, then he's that guy only younger. Do you think Stefanski could convince himself and others that he can turn Sanders into the tough guy's version of Cousins and get some shit done? I've heard of worse arguments. Particularly if the alternative is to waste a season like it's rarely been wasted before then hope the 2026 draft will be kinder and they will be well placed, both of which are very probable but not definite, and push the timeline back a year in any case...

I can see it.

I actually think Cleveland fits perfectly for Shadeur and this persona he and his dad have been building for him - bad programs that need culture change, and they are able to turn it around. It makes a great deal of sense. Shadeur whether he is good or bad will give some swagger they have never really had. I could see that town really rallying around him also because he's a shit talker. They like cocky athletes with ego.

If he works out, he would also come into an era of absolutely whooping the Steelers ass for a few years, so that'd make him look even better.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Smith and Wilson clashed and didn’t get along.

Now Tomlin’s brilliant new plan is to bring in another old and washed QB who famously wants to control everything and run his own offense.

How’s that definition of insanity go again….?

Except the same offense Rodgers has run for years is the same offense Smith’s uses. It stems from Leflur who left Tennessee to go to Greenbay. It all stems from west coast system

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Except the same offense Rodgers has run for years is the same offense Smith’s uses. It stems from Leflur who left Tennessee to go to Greenbay. It all stems from west coast system

No, it’s not lmao.

I can’t simplify this anymore - Smith loves pounding the rock and AR wants to throw the ball.

AR will come in and force Smith into a reduced role - you clearly have no idea how AR operates.

Smith and AR both want control of the offense and it won’t play out well, just like I warned about with Wilson, but you didn’t want to hear that either.

This is the same element your boy Tomlin wants to bring to the team again after it failed miserably with Wilson and Smith.

Except this is like repeating something stupid that didn’t work on steroids.

Tomlin never learns because he is never held accountable.

He’s the emperor without clothes while the media tells him his invisible clothes are straight GQ.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

We saw Smith in Atlanta with Ryan he used more 3 wr sets. Rodgers was 3rd in snap to pass because he doesn’t want to be hit

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Steelers claimed OG Lecitus Smith off waivers from the Packers. Likely just depth but I figure that may influence their late round picks, I was expecting them to draft an OG with a 4th or 5th but they may just use Smith for that role.

 

[Andy99]

Isn’t Pete Prisco a friend of Tomlin’s? His new mock on cbs sports has us taking Dart as well?

Pete Prisco 2025 NFL mock draft 1.0: Steelers take QB while rest of AFC North addresses defense in Round 1

Predicting every first-round pick about a month before the draft

www.cbssports.com

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

We saw Smith in Atlanta with Ryan he used more 3 wr sets. Rodgers was 3rd in snap to pass because he doesn’t want to be hit

At some point you are going to need to face reality boss.

I’ve told you who Tomlin is for the last 3-4 years and you live in denial.

Once Cowher’s tree was gone, he got exposed for what he is - a John Fox type that shouldn’t last anywhere for more than several years.

He has no plan (see 2019), no eye on the future, he hasn’t drafted or developed any talent in a decade, has a historical playoff winless streak and he’s turned this org into a laughingstock.

It’s all about protecting his worthless streak and his desperation to keep it alive (see the Fitz trade, Wilson signing and pursuit of AR).

A desperate coach who has stayed about a dozen years past his expiry date will not make sound decisions and fix the problems HE has created.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There is no chance the Steelers draft Dart if they're also signing Rodgers. Just doesn't make sense. I could maybe see them drafting Dart without signing Rodgers, I'd want them to trade down if they're doing that, but Prisco saying "it doesn't matter if they get Rodgers or not" ignores that they have 2 other QBs on the roster.

I'm pretty convinced that they're going to use 2026 to draft a QB.

 

[Peat]

There is no chance the Steelers draft Dart if they're also signing Rodgers. Just doesn't make sense. I could maybe see them drafting Dart without signing Rodgers, I'd want them to trade down if they're doing that, but Prisco saying "it doesn't matter if they get Rodgers or not" ignores that they have 2 other QBs on the roster.

I'm pretty convinced that they're going to use 2026 to draft a QB.

The two other QBs on the roster are a guy they've cheerfully shoved into QB3 many time before and total practice squad fodder. I doubt they're going to spend too much time thinking about those guys if they really genuinely like Dart and he's there.

They're also paying a lot of attention to the mid-round QBs right now, enough that I'm reconsidering how much they're willing to punt QB.

 

[Andy99]

The two other QBs on the roster are a guy they've cheerfully shoved into QB3 many time before and total practice squad fodder. I doubt they're going to spend too much time thinking about those guys if they really genuinely like Dart and he's there.

They're also paying a lot of attention to the mid-round QBs right now, enough that I'm reconsidering how much they're willing to punt QB.

They’re definitely going to pick up a QB somewhere in this draft no matter how shitty the overall group this year lol

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The Steelers claimed OG Lecitus Smith off waivers from the Packers. Likely just depth but I figure that may influence their late round picks, I was expecting them to draft an OG with a 4th or 5th but they may just use Smith for that role.

They also have nester on the practice squad who can play OG . They need a swing OT so Anderson can be the Essex guy who covers all spots if injury on gameday

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

They’re definitely going to pick up a QB somewhere in this draft no matter how shitty the overall group this year lol

Problem is you probably want to take that guy with the 4th (which is still probably a round too soon but). and not the 3rd. I think I'd rather like Leonard in the 5th round than McCord in the 3rd, for example, although I think McCord is a better QB. I don't read mocks and I'm not sure I trust them anyway but I don't really have a sense where these 3rd tier guys are gonna go.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

They’re definitely going to pick up a QB somewhere in this draft no matter how shitty the overall group this year lol

Yes they are going to draft a day 3 development qb. Skyler is probably not going to be on the roster just a 4th camp arm

 

[pistolpete11]

Re Johnson - that's got Khan in the presser quotes, although you could argue Colbert pretty much set things up in a way where it had to happen. I think the problem was more than the attitude though, because of the TDless season and being paid top 10 WR money in 2023. I think more was expected of him than borderline WR1/2 and he gave less.

Which means that the three biggest moves made in Khan's time - DJ, Queen, Fitzpatrick - have failed so far. The fourth, extending Heyward, has succeeded so far but is risky due to age. The fifth, Ogunjobi, also failed. How you call that collection mostly fine/good/insignificant when that is the case is beyond me.

I think 'failed' is putting it a bit strong. Fitz, Queen, and DJ are/were all solid contributors, just overpaid. I'd even hesitate calling Larry O 'failed', too. He was a solid piece for a couple of years. It wasn't until last year where he fell off, seemingly due to injuries.

I'd also question if Larry O was the 5th biggest signing in Khan's time. What about Highsmith and Muth? Daniels and Seumalo were also more, no? Or at least pretty close to it? I'd call all of those generally positive.

Really, though, I'm more looking at the big picture. I don't really care what they say, these past few years (and this year) have been about rebuilding. He's slapped some shit together for the NHALS mandate, but it doesn't matter in the long run. They weren't winning anything anyway with their QB situations and just needed some vets as a stop gap while they put some pieces in place. So, no I don't care that they splashed some money around for guys like Peterson or Larry O or Slay or presumably Rodgers on short term deals. Even the 'mistakes' like Fitz and Queen could be cut next year with pretty minimal dead cap (~$10M combined) and save nearly $31M. Or the 'risk' in Heyward would only be another ~$5M in dead cap and save over $14M (although, if it got to that point, he'd probably retire and I'm not sure what that means in the NFL cap world).

I think he's drafted well with a focus on inside-out (I 1000% support) which has laid a foundation to build on, kept the books relatively clean, set them up to take a shot at a QB next year with the extra comp picks, and remained flexible with the cap. As I've said before, he needs to stick the landing which will mostly come down to picking the right QB, but they are in a good position for 2026 and beyond.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

 

[Peat]

I think 'failed' is putting it a bit strong. Fitz, Queen, and DJ are/were all solid contributors, just overpaid. I'd even hesitate calling Larry O 'failed', too. He was a solid piece for a couple of years. It wasn't until last year where he fell off, seemingly due to injuries.

I'd also question if Larry O was the 5th biggest signing in Khan's time. What about Highsmith and Muth? Daniels and Seumalo were also more, no? Or at least pretty close to it? I'd call all of those generally positive.

Really, though, I'm more looking at the big picture. I don't really care what they say, these past few years (and this year) have been about rebuilding. He's slapped some shit together for the NHALS mandate, but it doesn't matter in the long run. They weren't winning anything anyway with their QB situations and just needed some vets as a stop gap while they put some pieces in place. So, no I don't care that they splashed some money around for guys like Peterson or Larry O or Slay or presumably Rodgers on short term deals. Even the 'mistakes' like Fitz and Queen could be cut next year with pretty minimal dead cap (~$10M combined) and save nearly $31M. Or the 'risk' in Heyward would only be another ~$5M in dead cap and save over $14M (although, if it got to that point, he'd probably retire and I'm not sure what that means in the NFL cap world).

I think he's drafted well with a focus on inside-out (I 1000% support) which has laid a foundation to build on, kept the books relatively clean, set them up to take a shot at a QB next year with the comp picks, and remained flexible with the cap. As I've said before, he needs to stick the landing which will mostly come down to picking the right QB, but they are in a good position for 2026 and beyond.

I'll skip to the main part - I really don't get the mentality behind the third paragraph. I don't get giving talent ID and team building a pass because the team was going nowhere. Either the team is making good decisions or they're not - and if they're not, why do we expect they'll magically start doing so when they get better players (if they get better players, which if they struggle with talent ID is a definite question)?

Yeah it's great that they can try again because they're short term guys, but if they keep having to try again, there's a problem.

Re the rest -

Yeah, good point about Highsmith and Muth who I forgot. Highsmith has had 13 sacks in 2 season since signing his extension, which coincides with the Steelers falling into being a pretty average pass rushing unit. That doesn't feel like the return expected given he's top 20 in pay for his position, and he's the third guy on the unit, and he put up 14.5 sacks the season before he signed. That's a lot closer to a loss than a win in my book.

Muth had a good year, even if it is frustrating that the would-be big bad running team has a sub-par blocker at TE1, so class that a win (although that's outside the top 5).

Daniels was a signing from the Colbert era and both come in below Ogunjobi. Daniels was mostly fine, nothing spectacular until the season he got injured. Seumalo, as I said, I think he's been pretty mixed.

And while I'm being harsh in saying that solid isn't good enough for Fitzpatrick and Queen given pay and expectations, I don't think I'm being unfair. Fitzpatrick, in particular, was expected to be a real difference maker and that has not happened. He's fallen off dramatically in terms of impact since signing an extension. At the very least, these are actively not plus outcomes.

All in all, I am not impressed by the team's building outside of the draft in the Khan era. At best they are treading water. Most of their big internal signings have dipped afterwards. Their one big swing at a premium FA who can be a long time Steeler looks miscast and a lot of their own year patches have been moved on without ceremony.

 

[Son Goku]

I'll skip to the main part - I really don't get the mentality behind the third paragraph. I don't get giving talent ID and team building a pass because the team was going nowhere. Either the team is making good decisions or they're not - and if they're not, why do we expect they'll magically start doing so when they get better players (if they get better players, which if they struggle with talent ID is a definite question)?

Yeah it's great that they can try again because they're short term guys, but if they keep having to try again, there's a problem.

Re the rest -

Yeah, good point about Highsmith and Muth who I forgot. Highsmith has had 13 sacks in 2 season since signing his extension, which coincides with the Steelers falling into being a pretty average pass rushing unit. That doesn't feel like the return expected given he's top 20 in pay for his position, and he's the third guy on the unit, and he put up 14.5 sacks the season before he signed. That's a lot closer to a loss than a win in my book.

Muth had a good year, even if it is frustrating that the would-be big bad running team has a sub-par blocker at TE1, so class that a win (although that's outside the top 5).

Daniels was a signing from the Colbert era and both come in below Ogunjobi. Daniels was mostly fine, nothing spectacular until the season he got injured. Seumalo, as I said, I think he's been pretty mixed.

And while I'm being harsh in saying that solid isn't good enough for Fitzpatrick and Queen given pay and expectations, I don't think I'm being unfair. Fitzpatrick, in particular, was expected to be a real difference maker and that has not happened. He's fallen off dramatically in terms of impact since signing an extension. At the very least, these are actively not plus outcomes.

All in all, I am not impressed by the team's building outside of the draft in the Khan era. At best they are treading water. Most of their big internal signings have dipped afterwards. Their one big swing at a premium FA who can be a long time Steeler looks miscast and a lot of their own year patches have been moved on without ceremony.

Look at the position Fitzpatrick had to play in all of last season, he was all the way back last man on defense because our cover game is trash. He had no chances at all to make splash plays, the moment they did put him in his position he got an interception. Same thing with TJ looking bad the last handful of games in the season, he was being told what to do, he was told to watch Henry against Baltimore. I also find it hilarious how every fan we have has turned on TJ because of one semi down season when he’s done NOTHING but be the BEST defensive player in the league since the moment he stepped onto the field. People forget too quickly. I blame this all mostly on coaching or the lack of it.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Look at the position Fitzpatrick had to play in all of last season, he was all the way back last man on defense because our cover game is trash. He had no chances at all to make splash plays, the moment they did put him in his position he got an interception. Same thing with TJ looking bad the last handful of games in the season, he was being told what to do, he was told to watch Henry against Baltimore. I also find it hilarious how every fan we have has turned on TJ because of one semi down season when he’s done NOTHING but be the BEST defensive player in the league since the moment he stepped onto the field. People forget too quickly. I blame this all mostly on coaching or the lack of it.

Tj was injured down the stretch. He said he is going to get comfortable switching sides so the defense can be less predictable. Minka like you said was doing his job

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I have no clue what direction Pittsburgh is going to go with their QB vacancy.

I am however confident that whatever choice that they make, they will screw it up. The only question remaining is how badly they will screw it up.

That mock draft with them reaching about two rounds early for a QB project in the first round seems to fit Tomlin's style. Going against the grain thinking that he is smarter than everyone else out there when he isn't and not learning from recent mistakes when he did the exact same thing.

 

[pistolpete11]

'll skip to the main part - I really don't get the mentality behind the third paragraph. I don't get giving talent ID and team building a pass because the team was going nowhere. Either the team is making good decisions or they're not - and if they're not, why do we expect they'll magically start doing so when they get better players (if they get better players, which if they struggle with talent ID is a definite question)?

Yeah it's great that they can try again because they're short term guys, but if they keep having to try again, there's a problem.

Many reasons. Sometimes rebuilding teams have different needs than contenders. Sometimes there are no good alternatives like with Russ or Rodgers. Sometimes you just want a veteran presence as a mentor like Petersen or Slay. Sometimes they were a pretty good player still, but end up getting hurt like Larry O. Many contracts are signed knowing they aren't the long term answer, but they were the best fit at the time for whatever reason.

Generally speaking, better players require more money and longer term contracts. For a team not going anywhere anyway, it's not a bad thing to remain flexible and kick the can down the road.

Yeah, good point about Highsmith and Muth who I forgot. Highsmith has had 13 sacks in 2 season since signing his extension, which coincides with the Steelers falling into being a pretty average pass rushing unit. That doesn't feel like the return expected given he's top 20 in pay for his position, and he's the third guy on the unit, and he put up 14.5 sacks the season before he signed. That's a lot closer to a loss than a win in my book.

Muth had a good year, even if it is frustrating that the would-be big bad running team has a sub-par blocker at TE1, so class that a win (although that's outside the top 5).

Highsmith dipped in 2023, but last year he had 6 sacks in 11 games. That's 9 over 17 games which would have been good for 18th in the NFL. That's very good for a secondary pass rusher. Only the Ravens, Broncos, Texans, and Vikings had 2 guys with more than 9. We also saw Watt struggle by his standards last year which indicates to me there is a scheme issue and beyond Watt, Highsmith, Herbig, and Heyward, they didn't have anyone with more than 2. I'd say both of those are bigger contributors to their pass rush issues than Highsmith.

What's frustrating with Muth is that he had a good year even though the HC and/or QB are afraid of throwing the ball over the middle of the field. Rectify that and I think we're potentially talking about Muth being a top 5 receiving TE in football and nobody would be complaining about any blocking deficiencies.

And while I'm being harsh in saying that solid isn't good enough for Fitzpatrick and Queen given pay and expectations, I don't think I'm being unfair. Fitzpatrick, in particular, was expected to be a real difference maker and that has not happened. He's fallen off dramatically in terms of impact since signing an extension. At the very least, these are actively not plus outcomes.

I don't disagree, although I'd say with Fitz, it's only using hindsight. People (myself included) complained about trading the 1st for him in the first place (which was Colbert), but nobody complained about that extension when it happened or when he was an All Pro the season after signing it. It's just in the last 2 years where he's fallen off and people have all sorts of theories why.

Queen, there was definitely some push back on with Ravens fans saying he wasn't very good without Smith next to him.

But the point I'm making, if your 2 biggest 'blunders' are 2 players that are still pretty useful, just overpaid, and would be pretty painless to cut in a year, you're in a decent spot.

All in all, I am not impressed by the team's building outside of the draft in the Khan era. At best they are treading water. Most of their big internal signings have dipped afterwards. Their one big swing at a premium FA who can be a long time Steeler looks miscast and a lot of their own year patches have been moved on without ceremony.

I don't disagree with most of this. The difference between us are:

1. I think cheaply plugging holes while you build through the draft is the correct approach. Times have changed, but building through the draft is still the best way to build a team. The majority of good players don't make it to FA and the ones that do tend to be expensive. You can quickly find yourself in trouble if you go the FA route.

So saying "outside of the draft, he hasn't been good" is kinda of missing the point IMO. The draft is the MOST important thing and it's the part that I think most people agree he's done a good job so far.

2. I put the blame for players regressing on the coaches, not the GM, which is why I said yesterday that roster construction needs to be separated from coaching.