Ryder71
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- Nov 24, 2017
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He had Ben for some of those debacles, how are you gonna spin that one?
Wait, do you like Tomlin? Seriously??????
OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Off Season We dont need a QB Edition
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Wait, do you like Tomlin? Seriously??????
pistolpete11
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- Apr 27, 2013
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Roster construction and actual coaching are 2 separate conversations.
As far as the roster construction, the end of Colbert's time here, whether it was Colbert himself or deferring to Tomlin, really set the franchise back and we're still feeling it to this day. No doubt. But the slate needs to wiped clean for Khan and so far, there's been a different approach. I think we need to see how it plays out in the medium-to-long term.
There is still a directive from Tomlin and, more importantly, Rooney to have winning seasons which I don't agree with, but given that's the directive from ownership, he's got to work with that. So he's slapped some lipstick on this pig with Russ last year and (probably) Rodgers and Slay this year, but these are low risk, short term, insignificant in the long run deals. Apart from the Fitz extension and if you want to consider the Queen signing significant, I think the draft, extensions, and FA signings have all been fine-to-good.
He's setting it up to call his shot at the next franchise QB next year. If he knocks it out of the park, nobody is going to care about these 2 years and they will be looked back on as rebuilding years. If he whiffs, it's going to set the franchise back another 5 years. Needless to say, a lot riding on the next 2 drafts.
As far as the actual coaching....yeah, not a whole lot good I can say. I agree with most of the criticisms. Not all, but most.
As far as the roster construction, the end of Colbert's time here, whether it was Colbert himself or deferring to Tomlin, really set the franchise back and we're still feeling it to this day. No doubt. But the slate needs to wiped clean for Khan and so far, there's been a different approach. I think we need to see how it plays out in the medium-to-long term.
There is still a directive from Tomlin and, more importantly, Rooney to have winning seasons which I don't agree with, but given that's the directive from ownership, he's got to work with that. So he's slapped some lipstick on this pig with Russ last year and (probably) Rodgers and Slay this year, but these are low risk, short term, insignificant in the long run deals. Apart from the Fitz extension and if you want to consider the Queen signing significant, I think the draft, extensions, and FA signings have all been fine-to-good.
He's setting it up to call his shot at the next franchise QB next year. If he knocks it out of the park, nobody is going to care about these 2 years and they will be looked back on as rebuilding years. If he whiffs, it's going to set the franchise back another 5 years. Needless to say, a lot riding on the next 2 drafts.
As far as the actual coaching....yeah, not a whole lot good I can say. I agree with most of the criticisms. Not all, but most.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
This is some downright galaxy brain logic to somehow justify the Steelers dogshit playoff performances for the last 8 years.
They lost 45-42 to a Blake Bortles led Jaguars team in 2017 and 48-37 to the Browns in 2020 after starting that game down 28-0. In their last 6 playoff losses, they've given up 36, 45, 48, 42, 28 and 31 points.
bigdaddyk88
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- Apr 21, 2019
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Some of those points the defense wasn’t even on the field for. That bortles team was top 5 in offense and had a lead in the afc championship game against New England in the 4th
The Old Master
come and take it.
bigdaddyk88
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- Apr 21, 2019
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Ben wasn’t good in the playoffs. Ben was a walking turnover in some of the losses
Empoleon8771
Registered User
-Steelers vs Patriots: 0 defensive scores for the Patriots, 1 interception and 1 fumble recovery for the Patriots defense
-Steelers vs Jaguars: 1 defensive score for the Jaguars (50 yard fumble recovery off of a strip sack), 1 interception and 1 fumble recovery for the Jaguars defense
-Steelers vs Browns: 1 defensive score for the Browns (botched snap), 4 interceptions for the Browns defense
-Steelers vs Chiefs: 0 defensive scores for the Chiefs, 1 fumble recovery for the Chiefs defense
-Steelers vs Bills: 0 defensive scores for the Bills, 1 interception and 1 fumble recovery for the Bills defense
-Steelers vs Ravens: 0 defensive scores for the Ravens, 0 turnovers by the offense
Blaming the offense for the team giving up points is laughable. You could chalk up one game to the offense turning the ball over and giving up points, where the offense gave the Browns a TD, a drive starting at the Steelers 15 and a drive starting at the Steelers 46 from turnovers in the first half.
If you want to talk about total yardage rather than points:
-Steelers vs Patriots: 374 yards allowed
-Steelers vs Jaguars: 378 yards allowed
-Steelers vs Browns: 390 yards allowed
-Steelers vs Chiefs: 372 yards allowed
-Steelers vs Bills: 368 yards allowed
-Steelers vs Ravens: 464 yards allowed
The Chiefs game was absolutely more on the offense than it was on the defense. The offense’s first 8 drives excluding the kneel down resulted in five 3 and outs and a fumble. The defense forced two turnovers and scored a touchdown and then just fell apart.
I still don’t think they win, but if they offense could have done literally anything that would have been a close game.
I still don’t think they win, but if they offense could have done literally anything that would have been a close game.
This I don't agree with.
Diontae Johnson extension - Mistake. Was paid to prove himself as WR1 in a QB transition period. Was deeply frustrating on and off the pitch instead.
Patrick Peterson signing - Mistake. Cut after a pretty mediocre year.
Cole Holcomb signing - Incomplete. Grade would depend on how much you blame Khan for taking a risk on an injury prone player who got injured. Good when he played tbf.
Larry Ogunjobi extension - Mistake. Underdelivered for his money.
Isaac Seumalo signing - Mixed. Good days, bad days. Ageing injury prone player shipped an injury that slowed him down. Hasn't fixed the line although somewhat unfair to expect him to do so.
Elandon Roberts signing - Good.
Kazee/Neal signing - Mistake. Doing them as one as they were the guys brought in to help Fitzpatrick, and their arrival coincided with Fitzpatrick's sudden decline as a guy who made splash plays.
Patrick Queen signing - Mistake so far.
Russell Wilson signing - Cost nothing, gained nothing so... average I guess
Heyward extension - Good so far.
DeShon Elliott signing - Good as an individual, mistake in terms of getting Fitzpatrick back to his best (although maybe that was just never happening)
Van Jefferson and Cam Sutton also mistakes, albeit maybe bigger mistakes than envisioned when signed.
Trade wise, Claypool/Fields/Pickett were good, but Robinson/Williams/that OLB they got at the deadline last year weren't, and the non-trade for Aiyuk was grim.
At best the record is mixed imo.
bigdaddyk88
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Mason and TJ have the same amount of 1st half tds in the playoffs as Ben did in the kc and browns game combined
Mr Jiggyfly
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- Jan 29, 2004
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Roth had the second best playoff win percentage of all time under Cowher and his OCs.
He went to three SBs and had two rings.
Everything changed when Tomlin took over the offense and started hiring OCs and Roth was never the same in the playoffs again.
Probably just a weird coincidence I guess.
Goalie_Bob
1992 Vezina (2nd)
I see it as Ben was allowed to play the game the way he wanted to play. He felt like he wasn't being respected versus the other QBs. The reason why the Steelers won the Super Bowls with him was because they had a great defense and a good running game.
That was the narrative in the national media.
So, in the end, that was the wrong choice. But is a massive hindsight 20/20 situation.
I firmly believe that Ben's meltdowns in the playoffs have greatly affected Tomlin's offensive approach.
That was the narrative in the national media.
So, in the end, that was the wrong choice. But is a massive hindsight 20/20 situation.
I firmly believe that Ben's meltdowns in the playoffs have greatly affected Tomlin's offensive approach.
bigdaddyk88
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Ben was a game manager under Cowher. From 2005 to 2010 ben had 19 tds and 16 interceptions. From 2011 on he had 17 tds and 12 interceptions
I do sometimes wonder to what extent the defence's struggles in these sorts of games, at least recently, is linked to looking at the offence and realising they're basically screwed.
The counterpoint to that though is that Mahomes' numbers vs the Steelers are video game-esque and complaints about the best QBs being able to just unpick Tomlin's defence like it's not there extend well past him. That 42 point whirlwind was probably coming regardless. Closer game, yeah. Actually close, I doubt it.
pistolpete11
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I had assumed DJ was Colbert, but if it was Khan, I guess I'd agree that was a mistake. Mostly because of the attitude stuff, though. I think he was paid as a borderline WR1/WR2 and produced as a borderline WR1/WR2.
The rest of those I don't really agree with. It's a big combination of incomplete, insignificant, stop gaps, fine, or good. Sometimes you don't have any good options, especially in FA, and just need a guy.
Aiyuk, meh. For those that are obsessed with perception, it wasn't a good look and obviously they failed in finding a WR2 in the end. However, 1) it worked out with Metcalf, albeit a year later 2) who were the other options again? A couple of the names I remember being talked about (Boyd, Reynolds, etc.) were awful last year. Like Van Jefferson levels of awful. When it comes to signing just a guy so that you don't embarrass a bunch of dorks on a message board (of which I consider myself one) or taking a chance waiting for an actual difference maker, not really sure it's the wrong decision in the long term.
Mr Jiggyfly
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I’ve debunked the game manager shit a plethora of times with you - not going down that hole again.
Just all coincidences, nothing to see here.
Not like after Ben left the team kept getting blown out in the playoffs while Tomlin’s defense continued to get shit all over.
Coincidence.
Ben won playoff games on a historical level when Cowher’s guys were the OCs.
When Tomlin hired OCs, Roth only won three more playoff games in ten years.
Again, just a weird, totally odd coincidence that has no connection.
No one around the league wanted to hire a single one of Tomlin’s former OCs.
Coincidence!. Other teams just couldn’t see how special Tomlin’s OCs were, that’s all.
Now that Tomlin is free of Ben, he’s showing to be a real savant at running an offense.
One of these days he might even have a competent running game - totally gonna happen after like… 7 years.
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bigdaddyk88
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Ben also had a HOF defense his younger years that could cover him. It’s similar to RW in Seattle
Re Johnson - that's got Khan in the presser quotes, although you could argue Colbert pretty much set things up in a way where it had to happen. I think the problem was more than the attitude though, because of the TDless season and being paid top 10 WR money in 2023. I think more was expected of him than borderline WR1/2 and he gave less.
Which means that the three biggest moves made in Khan's time - DJ, Queen, Fitzpatrick - have failed so far. The fourth, extending Heyward, has succeeded so far but is risky due to age. The fifth, Ogunjobi, also failed. How you call that collection mostly fine/good/insignificant when that is the case is beyond me.
ChaosAgent
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I think Khan definitely gets too much grace. The Claypool/Porter swap was incredible but aside from that it has been very meh (or worse)
Roethlisberger had a lot of really bad playoff games even before 2011: 04 vs NYJ, 04 vs NE, 05 vs SEA, 07 vs JAX, 10 vs GB. The difference is that he had an all time great defense.
ChaosAgent
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Don't let that cloud people who think he was the second coming.
Don't get me wrong. He was a top quarterback. But he was never considered on the level of Brady and Manning and there are obvious reasons why.
Ryder71
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- Nov 24, 2017
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No one thinks he is, but he was overall a very good QB. No he's not on the level of Brady, but he's a HOFer for sure.
End of Line
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The most damning aspect of this is that they have a -73 point differential in the first quarter in their last 5 playoff games. That is f***ing insane.
Yup. I think he gets a lot of grace because the draft hauls have looked amazing the very next day. But free agency, trades, handing out money? It's a different story, that one fleecing aside.
bigdaddyk88
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Not sure o would say Minka is a failure. If you believe he was put where he was to limit big plays because the Cbs were bad outside of Jpj. Jackson back got hurt and couldn’t play m2m. He got Elliot on a great contract. Queen was the same player he was in bmore. Bmore just took the green dot from him and said go hunt. Larry being suspended for ped is probably telling. He was never a pass rusher but supposed to be a run stuffer. The Heyward extension is a year by year deal they can get out of it with no real dead money. The dk extension was good and i would love to give gp the exact extension. We will see with better Db play can Minka play rover more often
