OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Off Season We dont need a QB Edition

[pistolpete11]

Oh 100% I agree. But sometimes it's more about fit vs overall talent.

DK and GP are identical players - vertical boundary types.
Which does not solve the issue of attacking every part of the field. This offense, even with DK in the mix does not make itself difficult to defend. All the successful offenses attack each part of the field.

Kupp would allowed them the opportunity or at least the threat of running curls, slants, etc underneath. This team has zero good route runners still. In short, Kupp would be more complimentary to GP than DK is.

2025 doesn't matter. We don't have a QB. This move was made for 2026 and beyond.

It's entirely possible, if not likely, that GP won't be here in 2026. Come next year, I'd rather have a proven, under 30 year old, big play WR1 and be looking for a WR2 possession type than have a oft-injured, declining, 33-year-old possession guy and be looking for a big play WR1.

For once, they are looking towards the future and not strictly making moves for this year.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The crazy thing is I think they genuinely think they can compete and the QB doesn't matter. They'll keep their guys on D and cheap out at QB. And they'll tell everyone quite seriously that the Superbowl is their goal. Such a strange org.

That's exactly it. MT believes "Defense Wins Championships". And he believes that he can replicate the 2001 Baltimore Ravens with a shitty QB and strong running game.

Ironically, he has none of those things (well except for a shitty QB)

- His workhorse RB can't get over 4 YPC.
- His "all world defense" that he manages has gotten skunked the last 10 playoff games or so.

I mean it's cool to have goals. I want to be certain things. But you'd think that if I kept doing the same thing over and over again without expected results, I'd change my approach or else you'd call me delusional. Yet Mike Tomlin gets lauded for being delusional.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

2025 doesn't matter. We don't have a QB. This move was made for 2026 and beyond.

It's entirely possible, if not likely, that GP won't be here in 2026. Come next year, I'd rather have a proven, under 30 year old, big play WR1 and be looking for a WR2 possession type than have a oft-injured, declining, 33-year-old possession guy and be looking for a big play WR1.

For once, they are looking towards the future and not strictly making moves for this year.

If Rodgers signs here, do you still agree with the bolded?

I don't agree that they are looking for the future. They traded for an older CB in D Slay who may not be here next season.

Not sure if it was in the article, but it was perfectly summed: always contending, but never a contender. Always rebuilding, but never rebuilt.

Welcome to the Tomlin purgatory era. 20 years wasted.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

We're back to this argument again?

How many times have you seen GP catch a pass in the MOF?
Better yet, when is the last time you saw a FIRST READ slant from this offense. Forget GP or anyone else. They don't do quick slants.

I keep telling you, this offense avoids MOF like the plague. They send routes to MOF, but they're essentially decoys and last reads. This offense is barely any different from since 2021. DC"s aren't stupid (well ours is).

They did when Mason was here that’s why GP lead the nfl in yac. Jf longest pass was a catch in run against the chargers this season to ca3. Mason is capable of standing in the pocket and throw

 

[bigdaddyk88]

67 catches for 6 Tds.
Is that better or worse than any of our WR's last year?

So if CK isn't good anymore, then what does that make our existing WR look like?

Cooper Kupp Career Stats - NFL - ESPN

Complete career NFL stats for Seattle Seahawks Wide Receiver Cooper Kupp on ESPN. Includes scoring, rushing, defensive and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

Kupp did that on 100 targets

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

They did when Mason was here that’s why GP lead the nfl in yac. Jf longest pass was a catch in run against the chargers this season to ca3. Mason is capable of standing in the pocket and throw

And when the Steelers secured a playoff spot, Mason's game completely changed and they stopped this. Look at the passing charts.

Are they capable of throwing MOF? Of course.
Will they? Extremely doubtful. I mean you had to go back over a season to show an example.

PS- I always liked MR. Definitely has warts in terms of pocket presence/pressure but he's no different than most other high end backup QB's.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Kupp did that on 100 targets

Well you just played yourself...again.
GP accomplished LESS production with MORE targets (103). See below.

I think I've had more conversations with you than any other poster about the topic of "efficiency". We talked about it with Najee Harris and his 4 ypc and now we're doing the same with our WRs.

How many times to I have to explain that anything that Tomlin touches is based on "volume" and not "efficiency". Tomlin values TOP (volume). Tomlin values turnovers (volume). Tomlin values rushing attempts (volume).

It's what you do with getting all that TOP and turnovers that actually matters.

Anything else you want to go to the matt for Mike Tomlin on or are you tapped out?

George Pickens 2024 Stats per Game - NFL - ESPN

The 2024 NFL season stats per game for George Pickens of the Pittsburgh Steelers on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.

www.espn.com

 

[bigdaddyk88]

And when the Steelers secured a playoff spot, Mason's game completely changed and they stopped this. Look at the passing charts.

Are they capable of throwing MOF? Of course.
Will they? Extremely doubtful. I mean you had to go back over a season to show an example.

PS- I always liked MR. Definitely has warts in terms of pocket presence/pressure but he's no different than most other high end backup QB's.

the system that smith wants to run fits Mason. It was a waste for RW because he can’t attack mof never has. We have not really attacked the mof sonce Ben got hurt and JuJu left

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

the system that smith wants to run fits Mason. It was a waste for RW because he can’t attack mof never has. We have not really attacked the mof sonce Ben got hurt and JuJu left

Well I just don't believe you bc you said that Ben didn't fit Canada's system bc he wants to run RPO.
Enter Trubiski, who was more mobile than Ben. Same or worse results.

You have eternal hope and feelings. I have facts in terms of what I've seen for the past 6 years.

 

[pistolpete11]

If Rodgers signs here, do you still agree with the bolded?

I don't agree that they are looking for the future. They traded for an older CB in D Slay who may not be here next season.

Not sure if it was in the article, but it was perfectly summed: always contending, but never a contender. Always rebuilding, but never rebuilt.

Welcome to the Tomlin purgatory era. 20 years wasted.

Yes and I'm struggling to pick out which part you think is not true.

They are going to try to compete on the field and probably win an annoying amount of games. Doesn't change the fact that they should be building for when they (hopefully) draft their franchise guy in 2026. DK helps with that. Kupp doesn't, certainly not to the same degree.

FYI, Slay was signed in FA. He doesn't count against their comp picks for 2026. He's a stop gap who can help a still young CB room with JPJ, Trice, and Bishop. Don't see the harm in it.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Well you just played yourself...again.
GP accomplished LESS production with MORE targets (103). See below.

I think I've had more conversations with you than any other poster about the topic of "efficiency". We talked about it with Najee Harris and his 4 ypc and now we're doing the same with our WRs.

How many times to I have to explain that anything that Tomlin touches is based on "volume" and not "efficiency". Tomlin values TOP (volume). Tomlin values turnovers (volume). Tomlin values rushing attempts (volume).

It's what you do with getting all that TOP and turnovers that actually matters.

Anything else you want to go to the matt for Mike Tomlin on or are you tapped out?

George Pickens 2024 Stats per Game - NFL - ESPN

The 2024 NFL season stats per game for George Pickens of the Pittsburgh Steelers on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.

www.espn.com

GP wasn’t playing with Stafford. Kupp best game last season was when Puka was hurt and he was back in the motion role. They tried to use him as the 3rd down move the chain wr and it wasn’t great. They went after Adams because they needed a deep threat at wr

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Well I just don't believe you bc you said that Ben didn't fit Canada's system bc he wants to run RPO.
Enter Trubiski, who was more mobile than Ben. Same or worse results.

You have eternal hope and feelings. I have facts in terms of what I've seen for the past 6 years.

Mitch was using the mof just kept throwing interceptions

 

[Empoleon8771]

The whole WR debate doesn't make sense to me because this team needs more than 1 WR and Kupp isn't a long term option due to his age. I don't see why they can't run with DK and Pickens going forward, there's no rule against having 2 deep threat WRs or paying 2 WRs.

I wouldn't mind trading Pickens and focusing on acquiring more of a slot WR to replace him, but that's also not a huge priority in my eyes. Your WR room is looking pretty solid with Metcalf, Pickens and Austin as your main WRs, and hopefully Wilson can progress and replace Austin as a slot WR.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yes and I'm struggling to pick out which part you think is not true.

They are going to try to compete on the field and probably win an annoying amount of games. Doesn't change the fact that they should be building for when they (hopefully) draft their franchise guy in 2026. DK helps with that. Kupp doesn't, certainly not to the same degree.

FYI, Slay was signed in FA. He doesn't count against their comp picks for 2026. He's a stop gap who can help a still young CB room with JPJ, Trice, and Bishop. Don't see the harm in it.

I guess I look at it as: if 2025 doesn't matter, then why bother with Rodgers? Why sign a FA CB who will be gone next year?

Seems to me they would target more players that will be here after this season (like DK).
That's the basis for my question.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

GP wasn’t playing with Stafford. Kupp best game last season was when Puka was hurt and he was back in the motion role. They tried to use him as the 3rd down move the chain wr and it wasn’t great. They went after Adams because they needed a deep threat at wr

Your excuses are just as pathetic as Tomlins.

If all of the above was true, then why didn't you point that out instead of going with "targets"?
You're so full of shit that you're starting to believe yourself.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Your excuses are just as pathetic as Tomlins.

If all of the above was true, then why didn't you point that out instead of going with "targets"?
You're so full of shit that you're starting to believe yourself.

Calvin had 40 less targets than Kup. Heck the rams had 2 other wr besides Kupp and Puka with more targets than Ca3

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Bills newly signed F/A’s Ogunjobi and Hoecht Suspended 6 games for violating the league's PED policy

Ogunjobi
... 9396005178

Hoecht


So Larry OG was cheating, yet still sucked?

 

[Khelandros]

Bills newly signed F/A’s Ogunjobi and Hoecht Suspended 6 games for violating the league's PED policy

Ogunjobi
... 9396005178

Hoecht


So Larry OG was cheating, yet still sucked?

No, no, no. Tomlin would have never allowed anything like that in his locker room. He obviously started this offseason to impress his new team.

 

[pistolpete11]

I guess I look at it as: if 2025 doesn't matter, then why bother with Rodgers? Why sign a FA CB who will be gone next year?

Seems to me they would target more players that will be here after this season (like DK).
That's the basis for my question.

Well, the conversation was DK vs. Kupp and my point was DK helps them build for the future. Kupp doesn't. So that's good.

As far as targeting good, younger, longer term solutions, that affects their comp picks for 2026. DK doesn't since they traded for him. All of their other free agency signings don't. So it gives them more ammo to make moves next year to find their QB. That's also good.

Slay, as far as I understand it, doesn't affect their comp picks and he provides a veteran presence for the young CB room. Good. He's only signed for 1 year so they will have that cap space to sign a longer term option next offseason without affecting their comp picks in the year they're looking for their franchise QB. Good.

Honestly, I'd rather not sign Rodgers because I hate that prick and the circus he inevitably brings. But if they do, I'm not really convinced there's much of a difference with Rodgers or Rudolph or Russ or Winston starting. I think they probably win 9-ish games either way. So I'm indifferent as long as the contract doesn't affect 2026.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Bills newly signed F/A’s Ogunjobi and Hoecht Suspended 6 games for violating the league's PED policy

Ogunjobi
... 9396005178

Hoecht


So Larry OG was cheating, yet still sucked?

Could have been to help with injury recovery

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Well, the conversation was DK vs. Kupp and my point was DK helps them build for the future. Kupp doesn't. So that's good.

As far as targeting good, younger, longer term solutions, that affects their comp picks for 2026. DK doesn't since they traded for him. All of their other free agency signings don't. So it gives them more ammo to make moves next year to find their QB. That's also good.

Slay, as far as I understand it, doesn't affect their comp picks and he provides a veteran presence for the young CB room. Good. He's only signed for 1 year so they will have that cap space to sign a longer term option next offseason without affecting their comp picks in the year they're looking for their franchise QB. Good.

Honestly, I'd rather not sign Rodgers because I hate that prick and the circus he inevitably brings. But if they do, I'm not really convinced there's much of a difference with Rodgers or Rudolph or Russ or Winston starting. I think they probably win 9-ish games either way. So I'm indifferent as long as the contract doesn't affect 2026.

Yea I think the conversations intertangled a couple of talking points so we probably weren't on the same wavelength. It's all good...we've always had respectful conversations.

Turning the convo back to QB: that was really my launching point. If the Steelers think they're contenders, that is why they're going with Rodgers. He's probably as close to plug and play as Russ would be.

If they are really punting on this season, then Rodgers in my mind makes zero sense. In short, Rodgers is a bellweather indicator to me that they really think they're in the playoff hunt/contenders or not.

If they sign someone like Winston or whoever else that to me is a signal they truly are punting on this season and ramping up for the following year armed with a ton of cap plus comp picks.

Note it was curious to me that Cooper Rush's name didn't get associated with the Steelers. Seems like he was more ideal than even Rudolph (or in addition to Rudolph). Guy who performed ok in a starter's role.

 

[JTG]

We're back to this argument again?

How many times have you seen GP catch a pass in the MOF?
Better yet, when is the last time you saw a FIRST READ slant from this offense. Forget GP or anyone else. They don't do quick slants.

I keep telling you, this offense avoids MOF like the plague. They send routes to MOF, but they're essentially decoys and last reads. This offense is barely any different from since 2021. DC"s aren't stupid (well ours is).

Austin and Wilson should be able to be able to do all of that. Those guys aren't bad. And with two big threats on the outside, Muth, Washington...those guys should get some looks too. THey need a RB in the worst way if they are going to do this, what kind of makes me wonder if they will try to get up and get Jeanty.

Unsure if GP is getting a R1 pick. I mean DK went for a 2nd and I think he's better than GP.

Been harping on it that the Bills should be all over GP. Recoup our 2nd Rd pick at least.

21 to 8 is 600 points. That's a 2nd round pick - 33 to be exact is 580.

 

[JTG]

Part of me honestly thinks Ty Warren would be a great player here under Artie's offense. He could be used absolutely everywhere. He represents a new breed of player to me - he is a guy that you truly don't know if he's going to be trying to run 60 yards down the field or if he's going to try to run the dude in front of him through the earth.

I also think they find a way to go up and get Cam Ward. He's basically Ben.

 

[pistolpete11]

Yea I think the conversations intertangled a couple of talking points so we probably weren't on the same wavelength. It's all good...we've always had respectful conversations.

Turning the convo back to QB: that was really my launching point. If the Steelers think they're contenders, that is why they're going with Rodgers. He's probably as close to plug and play as Russ would be.

If they are really punting on this season, then Rodgers in my mind makes zero sense. In short, Rodgers is a bellweather indicator to me that they really think they're in the playoff hunt/contenders or not.

If they sign someone like Winston or whoever else that to me is a signal they truly are punting on this season and ramping up for the following year armed with a ton of cap plus comp picks.

Note it was curious to me that Cooper Rush's name didn't get associated with the Steelers. Seems like he was more ideal than even Rudolph (or in addition to Rudolph). Guy who performed ok in a starter's role.

They don't think they need to bottom out to get their QB. You can agree or disagree, but that's what they've said publicly.

With that said, I don't everything they do needs to be put into "l.o.l. they think they are contenders" and "they're tanking" buckets. There is a "Meh, he's the best we can do for this year that won't affect next year". All of their free agent signings fall into that last one, as would Rodgers.

Like I said, I don't want to sign Rodgers, but as long as they don't sign him to a multiple year deal for lots of guaranteed money that will have a negative impact on the cap going forward...whatever.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

We're back to this argument again?

How many times have you seen GP catch a pass in the MOF?
Better yet, when is the last time you saw a FIRST READ slant from this offense. Forget GP or anyone else. They don't do quick slants.

I keep telling you, this offense avoids MOF like the plague. They send routes to MOF, but they're essentially decoys and last reads. This offense is barely any different from since 2021. DC"s aren't stupid (well ours is).

They did last time Rudolph was QB.