OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: New Quarter Backs for the Handball team!

[MrBrightside]

I'm not following the concern over "going all in" by trading for a receiver. In fairness, I'm working on the assumption that no trade for a WR this season would involve next year's first rounder, and maybe not even second rounder.

Yes there are roster issues, and the QB thing will likely need to be addressed, but I can't envision a scenario in which the team handcuffs it's ability to do that with a move this offseason. If that proves mistaken, then yeah I'm probably concerned.

You're not wrong. It's just the incessant pessimistic nihilism that so many dabble the way Picasso dabbled in paint. They have given up zero future assets to this point to upgrade the current roster, and even those that bitch about Wilson/Fields and/or say it's hopeless to even bother with Tomlin as the coach have failed to identify a better option this offseason than what they did at zero cost with zero future commitment.

Even if they were to trade for a guy like Aiyuk, which doesn't seem likely to happen, that's not an "all in" move as they'd undoubtedly make an extension as part of it. Pretty good chance that he (or Sutton or Deebo or whomever) will help you as much over the next several years as whatever pick you trade would have.

 

[JTG]

I think Fields has traits that can be developed. He's still a very young player.

The upside is when he takes over the reins, the team should be pretty well built and ready to go.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Fields has traits that can be developed. He's still a very young player.

The upside is when he takes over the reins, the team should be pretty well built and ready to go.

I still think it's very important to note that Fields is only a year older than Penix, who was just a top-10 pick and is going to sit behind Cousins for 2 years before he starts.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

There was no point in bringing in Fields at all. Total Tomlin move

You might be right. And even have some historical precedent to back up that statement.

However, let's let it play out.

On paper it is a brilliant move. Low cost, extremely high potential reward.

If Tomlin can keep his hands off and let his OC do his job, then I like the chances of Fields as much, if not more, as any of the QB's taken four through six in the top twelve this year. And cost a sixth round pick.

He's 25 year old and athletic. Let's see what he can do with another chance.

 

[DanielPlainview]

It's a total waste of time. Tomlin has shown zero ability he knows how to handle a young QB and the young QB he has now has not shown any ability to be a professional at that position. His problems are not fixable by coaching - no amount of tape review and technical training is going to fix his poor decision-making, inability to read defenses, and the turnover issues that stem from both problems.

I get Pickett throwing a tantrum forced them to move him out but Fields was not the guy to grab instead.

 

[Peat]

Is there any historical precedent for a three year starter with Fields' passing numbers working out?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Is there any historical precedent for a three year starter with Fields' passing numbers working out?

Were his numbers really that bad?

He had consistency issues, but ended up the 12th ranked QB last year. So those are pretty good numbers.

2023 NFL Quarterback Rankings, All 32 Teams

Best quarterbacks for the 2023 NFL season. Ranking all 32 NFL quarterbacks. Rankings for every positional group in the NFL.

www.sharpfootballanalysis.com

 

[DanielPlainview]

There's no way Fields was even close to being the 12th best QB unless the QB position is just that bad right now

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is there any historical precedent for a three year starter with Fields' passing numbers working out?

Alex Smith is one. He was actually horrendous in his first 3 years:

He also missed all of the 2008 season due to an injury. He didn't actually turn into a semi-effective starter until he was 27.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Another example of a starter who struggled out of the gate was Sam Bradford, who actually ended up a solid starter that had his career cut short due to injuries IIRC. I remember he really looked to be something special once he arrived in Minnesota, but then his career basically ended due to an injury and Cousins taking the starting QB spot.

First 3 years:

Next 3+ years:

 

[Jaded-Fan]

There's no way Fields was even close to being the 12th best QB unless the QB position is just that bad right now

I never said that he was the 12th best QB in the league. There is a reason no one stepped up and paid more than a sixth for him.

The question was about his numbers.

And they on paper have not been that bad. Which leaves some room to have a degree of hope and makes seeing how he actually does worth doing before we assume that the QB position is crap and moving up and investing a top five pick on the position as has been suggested,

 

[DanielPlainview]

A distinction without much of a difference, I guess.

Number are easily misleading in today's league.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I feel like being a decorated wrestler is really good for a center. Similar skills with leverage and whatnot.

Carleton Haselrig says hi
Barely played organized football and he ended up being a stud

 

[Empoleon8771]

A distinction without much of a difference, I guess.

Number are easily misleading in today's league.

I mean, if you're going to say the numbers are wrong while also presumably not watching Fields on the Bears regularly, what exactly is your opinion worth?

 

[DanielPlainview]

I mean, if you're going to say the numbers are wrong while also presumably not watching Fields on the Bears regularly, what exactly is your opinion worth?

I have. He’s awful

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've made this point before, but I think the comments regarding the Steelers QB situation being bad are super exaggerated. I know PFF has its flaws, but it had Wilson at a rating of 77.5 last year, which was 18th in the NFL and effectively tied with Mayfield and Carr. That generally fits what I've gathered from looking at his stats as well, he's a roughly league average QB on par with Carr. Fields was outside of the top-20, but he still ranked at a PFF rating of 74.6 which was ahead of Pickett's 70.6.

Right now, the Steelers have 2 QBs that are better than any QB they had on the team last year. Wilson is about on par with mid-30s Ben, although the offense will not be even close to as pass heavy as the offense was when they had mid-30s Ben. Fields is a low end starter but has potential with his athleticism, which is especially worth the gamble considering he cost a 6th round pick. This debate has already been beaten into the ground, but I just fundamentally do not understand how you can be mad about the QB moves they've made this off-season.

Want to think neither Wilson or Fields would be good enough to contend with? I think that's totally valid. But being mad about them going this route when there were simply no better options this year? That's silly.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I've made this point before, but I think the comments regarding the Steelers QB situation being bad are super exaggerated. I know PFF has its flaws, but it had Wilson at a rating of 77.5 last year, which was 18th in the NFL and effectively tied with Mayfield and Carr. That generally fits what I've gathered from looking at his stats as well, he's a roughly league average QB on par with Carr. Fields was outside of the top-20, but he still ranked at a PFF rating of 74.6 which was ahead of Pickett's 70.6.

Right now, the Steelers have 2 QBs that are better than any QB they had on the team last year. Wilson is about on par with mid-30s Ben, although the offense will not be even close to as pass heavy as the offense was when they had mid-30s Ben. Fields is a low end starter but has potential with his athleticism, which is especially worth the gamble considering he cost a 6th round pick. I just really do not understand why there is so much doom and gloom about their QB situation.

And you can win with that.

But hey, if you cannot get the next Burrows or Mahomes for a sixth round pick you might as well give up and pack it in.

That is the floor. An average quarterback that you can win with. The question is whether an athletic 25 year old quarterback can get even better.

There is room for that.

Sure thing? Obviously not, or other teams would have stepped in and given a lot more.

Though that was somewhat situational, and the Bears completely screwed that up by asking too much, waiting too long, and then being left to take whatever they can.

But the entire point is that the team has drafted very well the past two years and look like they are young and up and coming. They simply are too good to crash and burn and get a top five pick quarterback.

So, by far the best option is to go with Fields long term, and Wilson short term (who had numbers similar to Fields), and hope for the best.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I’ve been burned too many times getting really excited for a season so I’m going to go with the wait and see approach. I just have to see how the passing game comes together before I fully buy into anything. The QB room + WR room + Arthur smith passing offense has me pretty skeptical but if it can at least be average, the team should be pretty good.

I was super excited last offseason and then I watched KP play 2 regular season games and I immediately canceled a trip to watch this team play live.

Wilson will be better than KP and have a better Oline in front of him. So my excitement is about as high as last year, but I'll wait a few games before I start crowning them

 

[Empoleon8771]

And you can win with that.

Honestly, I wouldn't even necessarily disagree with the people who say you likely can't contend for a Super Bowl with a 35 year old Wilson or Fields because it's probably right. At the same time, both of those guys are better than Pickett and those guys were realistically the best options on the market for this year. They're not committed long-term to either of these guys, they're both on 1 year deals.

The Steelers were not in a position to acquire a long-term QB this off-season, so going with a 1 year stopgap in Wilson and a lottery ticket in Fields was the best option.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The Steelers were not in a position to acquire a long-term QB this off-season, so going with a 1 year stopgap in Wilson and a lottery ticket in Fields was the best option.

Please sticky this for anyone who complains about the QB room for this season. There were really no other viable options. And if this turns out to be a mistake, what is the cost? A 5th Round pick and a sliver of the cap? This is no different than gambling: minimize your losses and maximize your gains. If the QB room implodes this season, there's no risk. Yes the season might be gone, but we weren't doing anything meaningful with KP anyway.

Outside of Cousins, there was no one else who moved the needle as much as Fields/RW. The rest were all essentially KP, just with different physical traits.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Honestly, I wouldn't even necessarily disagree with the people who say you likely can't contend for a Super Bowl with a 35 year old Wilson or Fields because it's probably right. At the same time, both of those guys are better than Pickett and those guys were realistically the best options on the market for this year. They're not committed long-term to either of these guys, they're both on 1 year deals.

The Steelers were not in a position to acquire a long-term QB this off-season, so going with a 1 year stopgap in Wilson and a lottery ticket in Fields was the best option.

Wilson always was a stop gap.

But Fields literally fell into their laps and Khan-Weidle are not the type to not jump on an opportunity.

Now that they have him, it makes the most sense to give him the chance to prove everyone wrong. I am not talking next year, although he may step up and make that happen. I am talking about the year after.

What is the other option? Another trade for a retread or giving up a king's ransom to move into the top five next draft? Because this team is too good to be a bottom five team.

The most logical thing is to see what they have in Fields and if they need to, go fishing again in two years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Another CB added to the room.

 

[xlm34]

Wilson always was a stop gap.

But Fields literally fell into their laps and Khan-Weidle are not the type to not jump on an opportunity.

Now that they have him, it makes the most sense to give him the chance to prove everyone wrong. I am not talking next year, although he may step up and make that happen. I am talking about the year after.

What is the other option? Another trade for a retread or giving up a king's ransom to move into the top five next draft? Because this team is too good to be a bottom five team.

The most logical thing is to see what they have in Fields and if they need to, go fishing again in two years.

Why wait? That is the part that I just do not get at all in this whole QB situation. If Wilson is just a one year stop gap that most likely doesn’t make you a Super Bowl contender, why is he being penciled in as the starter? Why not find out what you have in Fields?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Why wait? That is the part that I just do not get at all in this whole QB situation. If Wilson is just a one year stop gap that most likely doesn’t make you a Super Bowl contender, why is he being penciled in as the starter? Why not find out what you have in Fields?

I am not sure that Wilson is automatically the quarterbackthis coming year. Fields will be given every chance to compete for the starter job.

 

[Pengwins]

might as well trade for Courtland Sutton now