OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: New Quarter Backs for the Handball team!

[Zirakzigil]

Click to read more...

 

[Zirakzigil]

In regards to Mims, there’s a difference between not playing a lot of games and being raw. By most accounts, Mims is a guy that would be ready to play week 1. From what I’ve read he’s a more pro ready prospect than Broderick Jones was.

If he’s ready to play and has tremendous upside/best talent according to many draft guys, why isn’t he ranked higher on the list of tackles, such that he’s clearly being available at #20 on every mock draft and in fact going later in the first than the Steelers in a majority of them?

We are definitely on the same wave length.

Rebuild the O-line and the next QB they draft can come into a really nice situation.

Also with you on finding a WR in the third.



Tall centers like Barton can be worrisome with pad level and leverage, so I get the concern, but we’ll see.

I’m not opposed to JPJ at 20, but it’s much like RBs where you can get better value there likely and find a starter in round 2 or 3.

Again, history last ten years shows it’s hard to get real value out of center in round one.

I do realize they left a gaping hole at center, but drafting out of desperation rarely works.

Because it’s an absurd tackle class — probably one of the best in recent memory. Being the 6th or whatever best Tackle in this draft isn’t anything to turn your nose up at.

Yeah it’s more about there being quite a few Day 1 OT’s in this draft who have games and raw ability that rank them ahead of Mims and less about Mims not being ready.

It’s a stacked OT class and there are some solid centers too which we need both of.

You need to find a dance partner, but I have to imagine Kahn is willing to trade up in the 2nd round to grab which ever center is their at the top of day 2

Desperation is bad but mostly if it causes you to reach. Again, I understand the question about first-round value, but if a guy is plus-and-play and he makes your team better is it a reach just because it's also a position of (apparently) dire need?

It's possible I'm paying more attention to JPJ and Frazier than normal because of that need, but both seem like starters and keepers to me. That sounds like good value.

I see there's a potential path to a tackle at 20 and Frazier via a trade-up, it just comes with some anxiety because I like Frazier and we probably need to come out of the draft with a center.

In the end I feel a lot of folks are of a similar mind, just with subtle differences.

Didn’t say it was…just asking if it’s better to take the 4th or 5th best WR, or CB, at #20, in an also incredibly deep draft class for those positions, than the sixth best tackle, when you have 2 developmental projects and a starter (who team claims to like but is below average) already on the roster?

I believe Dallas is hard up for a C, but not sure who else.

I suspect JPJ is gone by 24 to Dallas.

So a trade back isn’t really in the cards if they want to move back and take JPJ at 28, 29 etc.

Steelers basically have to prioritize best available at 20 and if they feel that’s JPJ, I’ll be ok with it.

It’s also possible that one of the OT’s slated to go earlier falls back to #20 as shakeups happen every draft.

At the end of the day I’m with you that ideally the Steelers have pick #20 and pull something in the #32-#36 range via trade to grab an OT and Center.

If they take a corner or WR, I’ll be fine with that to.

I just see an ideal chance to rebuild their line with the first two picks.

Why is it not ok to draft J P-J at 20 because he is a Center but people think it is ok to trade a 2nd and a 3rd to move up to take a Center?

If Center is not a premium position and they shouldn’t draft one at 20 then they probably shouldn’t trade 2 premium picks to trade up to draft one.

It’s Miami you have to worry about they lost Williams in FA. Ideally you trade with Philly who wants a cb but Miami is 21.

Not arguing they shouldn’t draft JPJ at #20 I’d be totally fine with it, would just like to see then move up and grab the best OT in the first few picks of the second.

That said if they grab DJ or a blue chip WR/CB in the second I’m fine with that as well.

My personal preference is walking out of the first two days of the draft with a Center and an OT the likes of a JPJ/Barton/Frazier and a Mims/Fuaga. OL are boring picks but with Broderick Jones and the potential of this draft the Steelers could have a damn strong Offensive Line really soon

This is a fair point but they've backed themselves into a corner and right now. the plug and play answers to that corner look like they're going before the Steelers 2nd round pick.

They're going to have to do something expensive if they don't just punt it on Herbig or whatever other vet they can find, the question is what.

I think its the trade back pick up a 3rd and 5th use that 5th to trade up in the 2nd I like. You typically draft the expensive positions in round 1. Cb ot to me cost more in fa than a c

There is zero chance Frazier falls to 51. You either take JPJ in round 1 or you have to trade up to ensure Frazier is on the roster in round 2.

If you swing and miss on those guys, I don't see another plug and play C in this draft. I do like the kid out of Arkansas, Beaux Limmer but not sure he's a day 1 starter.

I seem to be the only one concerned about DL. Cam is nearing the end of the road. Ogunjobi is too inconsistent. Benton is a beast. I have zero faith of anyone else stepping up and playing a major role if Cam or Og are unable to go a full season.

Yeah, I’m worried and Cam is not nearly at the end of the road, he’s there lol….I understand why they want to bring him back for the leadership/room but they’re paying him $16M for that…crazy

Yeah, DeMarvin Leal has been a non factor his first two years. Got a little run when Cam was out but then saw his playing time reduced.

Steelers did use 3 top 30 visits so far on DT/DL: Braden Fiske, Khristian Boyd, Darius Robinson

Because you get better value at C in round 2 and 3, but they also need a plug and play guy and there are at best only 2-3 of those guys.

Passing up a premium position like RT if there is a good prospect there because you backed yourself into a corner on C, isn’t exactly an ideal way to build your team.

So they lose value at 20 to get a C or move up in round 2 to get one.

Something has to give.

That’s basically what happens when you have a big need at a position that doesn’t carry as much value as other positions.

No, I think that's a definite want for the team. Maybe not a full blown need because they can muddle through if there's no injuries but in terms of insurance/succession, it's very much a want. A pick could work his way into a lot of snaps by the end of the season too.



Someone leaked they don't think he's trying hard enough to improve. He has a road to Damascus moment this summer, or he's dead meat.

Both Weidl and Dunbar were at LSU's pro day which has Maason Smith.

I hate myself for posting this but Poni actually poses the question we've been talking about in an interesting way:

 

[Zirakzigil]

If someone invites you to the steakhouse with the hottest new rep in town, they're picking up the bill, you don't tell them you have a booking at Outback.

Just like Loudermilk and Leal won't stop them taking a pedigree DT, or Trice and Rush from taking a pedigree CB, or Austin a pedigree WR etc.etc.

I do agree this looks like a draft the Steelers can afford to move down in but I'd still be eying up that RT class. They're superb athletes and would represent about the best long term value possible to the Steelers short of a QB. I'm not turning my nose up at them just because they're a little raw, or because there's some Walmart burger patties in the fridge. I wonder whether they want a developmental tackle when they have Cook and Anderson, but a guy like Mims or Guyton? Nah.



Short term A.

Long term it should be B.

 

[Peat]

@WickedWrister - to answer that question again since it's kinda buried now - I think A is the better short term option but B should be better long term.

 

[WickedWrister]

@WickedWrister - to answer that question again since it's kinda buried now - I think A is the better short term option but B should be better long term.

Yeah, I don't think Dan Moore or Herbig are starting on this team in 2025, it's kind of a "which guy would do the least harm" in 2024 type scenario.

Having your swing guard move to C would also hurt your depth if there were any injuries to Daniels or Seumalo.

Herbig isn't that cheap either, 5.4m this year. That's like top 15 center money if he actually starts here.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, I don't think Dan Moore or Herbig are starting on this team in 2025, it's kind of a "which guy would do the least harm" in 2024 type scenario.

Having your swing guard move to C would also hurt your depth if there were any injuries to Daniels or Seumalo.

Herbig isn't that cheap either, 5.4m this year. That's like top 15 center money if he actually starts here.

Honestly I kinda wonder if Herbig was here if he wasn't one of Weidl's boys (and also had a brother here). His cap hit for his role is a ??? and his fit for Smith's scheme is also ???. Smith wants them big and athletic right? Well, Herbig is big, but dude posted abysmal combine numbers for speed, agility, explosiveness, the rest of it.

The speed thing and lack of C experience makes me wonder if he can actually do it without being a Cole level problem. Like can he even execute all this Outside Zone stuff and pulling? Is he gonna be making the right pass pro zone reads and calls when he has limited experience there? He doesn't have the length or speed to allow for much room for error.

Part of me thinks the Steelers will revisit the veteran market if they don't solve things in the draft.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Dulac said we might not go OT and C in round 1 and 2 might hold off on OT

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Dulac said we might not go OT and C in round 1 and 2 might hold off on OT

So we need to determine if this is him being spoon fed info from the club or if this is an opinion piece.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So we need to determine if this is him being spoon fed info from the club or if this is an opinion piece.

Steelers would never give that info away to anyone outside the org.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Steelers would never give that info away to anyone outside the org.

Excellent. So totally unreliable then.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

So we need to determine if this is him being spoon fed info from the club or if this is an opinion piece.

It’s definitely feed. However Zerline whose a scout said OT is the deepest group in the class
Smith spent the day with Burton today while out o line coach was in Oregon checking out a few OT

2024 NFL Draft: Strongest position group? Weakest?

Lance Zierlein evaluates the 2024 NFL Draft class and ranks the 11 position groups from strongest to weakest. Which spot earns top billing? Where do this year's quarterbacks land?

www.nfl.com

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Dulac said we might not go OT and C in round 1 and 2 might hold off on OT

Just like theyd never go qb a few years ago.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Excellent. So totally unreliable then.

Ya he’s just spitballing. The org would never give him or any journalists their draft plans.

That would be the height of stupidity.

He insisted up and down they wouldn’t take a QB in 22 and guess what happened?

When he tries to guess stuff he’s usually way off which is why I guess some ppl get worked up about him being an unreliable reporter, but again it’s easy to know his spitballing vs info he’s fed.

 

[WickedWrister]

Ya he’s just spitballing. The org would never give him or any journalists their draft plans.

That would be the height of stupidity.

He insisted up and down they wouldn’t take a QB in 22 and guess what happened?

When he tries to guess stuff he’s usually way off which is why I guess some ppl get worked up about him being an unreliable reporter, but again it’s easy to know his spitballing vs info he’s fed.

Dulac doesn't know what the Steelers want to do with Fields either...



Can't see us taking Penix where he's projected to go.

 

[Captain Hook]

Can't see us taking Penix where he's projected to go.

I agree. I'd imagine his visit is probably just a due diligence thing in case something weird happens and he falls to the 3rd round or something.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Dulac doesn't know what the Steelers want to do with Fields either...



Can't see us taking Penix where he's projected to go.

No clue how them looking at a second day QB has anything to do with what Dulac was told about Fields.

Ppl really need to stop confusing Dulac spitballing in his chats and opinion pieces vs him passing on information he’s told directly from the team.

His absolute language when passing info from the org is easy to distinguish.

It’s getting really f***ing bizarre how a 25+ year boring ass beat guy who has always been bang on with Steeler info (not opinions) is getting some ppl worked up.

Dulac getting ppl upset is about the funniest shit I’ve seen around here.

It’s like being mad about something as stupid as the color of your mailbox.

 

[Peat]

If we're going to do the Dulac thing again, I'll point out that even if accepting Dulac is being used a mouthpiece (which makes sense), that only means that Dulac is telling us what the Steelers want us to think their intention with Wilson/Fields is.

Not what they'll do. But what they want us to think they'll do.

That might seem like an all time piece of pedantry but given that the Steelers have maybe been massaging the truth about the QB position this off-season, why should we be surprised if there's a little more massage going on? It's easier to sell this as "boy do we love Wilson" if they're talking about extensions, and selling it as "boy do we love Wilson" distracts people from "wellp we just run out first round QB out of town in two years but please no questions".

Which might all be misguidedly cynical but the point remains - just because the Steelers want you to think something doesn't mean it's definitely true.

 

[WickedWrister]

If we're going to do the Dulac thing again, I'll point out that even if accepting Dulac is being used a mouthpiece (which makes sense), that only means that Dulac is telling us what the Steelers want us to think their intention with Wilson/Fields is.

Not what they'll do. But what they want us to think they'll do.

That might seem like an all time piece of pedantry but given that the Steelers have maybe been massaging the truth about the QB position this off-season, why should we be surprised if there's a little more massage going on? It's easier to sell this as "boy do we love Wilson" if they're talking about extensions, and selling it as "boy do we love Wilson" distracts people from "wellp we just run out first round QB out of town in two years but please no questions".

Which might all be misguidedly cynical but the point remains - just because the Steelers want you to think something doesn't mean it's definitely true.

Don't really care to do the whole Dulac thing again. People can form opinions based on whatever sources they feel are trustworthy

Ultimately I think the Steelers don't really know what they want to do at QB and will let performance dictate their plans.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If we're going to do the Dulac thing again, I'll point out that even if accepting Dulac is being used a mouthpiece (which makes sense), that only means that Dulac is telling us what the Steelers want us to think their intention with Wilson/Fields is.

Not what they'll do. But what they want us to think they'll do.

That might seem like an all time piece of pedantry but given that the Steelers have maybe been massaging the truth about the QB position this off-season, why should we be surprised if there's a little more massage going on? It's easier to sell this as "boy do we love Wilson" if they're talking about extensions, and selling it as "boy do we love Wilson" distracts people from "wellp we just run out first round QB out of town in two years but please no questions".

Which might all be misguidedly cynical but the point remains - just because the Steelers want you to think something doesn't mean it's definitely true.

It’s obvious he’s telling us what the Steelers want us to know.

Given they didn’t expect KP to ask out and have no real plan for next season, I’m pretty sure as of right now they legit see Fields as a starter next year.

It’s not like they currently have some young franchise guy waiting on the bench.

 

[Peat]

Also re Penix -

Apparently his stats under pressure are freaky. About as good a QB as college football has seen at not taking sacks or wasting the ball under pressure since people started measuring these sorts of stats... but also apparently struggles when forced to play outside the pocket. Weird mix.

It does really feel like a year where there'll be a few high profile busts and a great QB found in rounds 3-4.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Penix solidified a 1st round grade yesterday as long as medicals check out. He showed athleticism to go with the film of playing in an nfl offense

 

[MrBrightside]

They always meet with guys at every position during this period of time - I really don't think it means much. They met with 2 QB's last year and didn't draft any.

2023 Pittsburgh Steelers Pre-Draft Visit Tracker

As we do every year, we’ll keep tabs on the 2023 NFL Draft prospects that we know have pre-draft visits, otherwise known as “Top 30” meetings, with the Pittsburgh Steelers. History has shown a strong correlation between the players the team brings in and the names they draft next month. We will...

steelersdepot.com

 

[JTG]

Those against C in round one wax poetic about how we should have drafted Humphrey a few years ago. Center is a premium position, in my opinion. With JPJ you're getting wrecker in the middle of the OL that sets the tone for everyone else.

 

[JTG]

I have been watching Olu Fashanu slide down draft boards. I haven't looked at his combine performance closely because...it's Fashanu.

Dude is 6'6 312 pounds. 34 inch arms. 8.5 inch hands. Dude has tenticles for arms and legit Kenny Pickett hands. Unless there is a reporting error...he has the smallest hands for a massive guy.

 

[MrBrightside]

Those against C in round one wax poetic about how we should have drafted Humphrey a few years ago. Center is a premium position, in my opinion. With JPJ you're getting wrecker in the middle of the OL that sets the tone for everyone else.

Center really isn't a premium position, but if he's the best player available they kind of have to take him given the spot they've placed themselves in at the position.