OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Kansas City Swifts vs Philly Eagles

[Peat]

Dulac: Arthur Smith Stopped Letting Russell Wilson Change Plays, Creating Friction Between Two

Since the Pittsburgh Steelers’ season ended, multiple reports have painted a rocky relationship between offensive coordinator Arthur Smith and quarterback Russell Wilson. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s Gerry Dulac offered detail over what those issues were. Per Dulac, the issues stem from Smith...

steelersdepot.com

 

[xlm34]

Dulac: Arthur Smith Stopped Letting Russell Wilson Change Plays, Creating Friction Between Two

Since the Pittsburgh Steelers’ season ended, multiple reports have painted a rocky relationship between offensive coordinator Arthur Smith and quarterback Russell Wilson. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s Gerry Dulac offered detail over what those issues were. Per Dulac, the issues stem from Smith...

steelersdepot.com

There are so many concerning things in that article. A lot of coaches don’t let their QBs audible but you need to give some freedom to make adjustments.

I also hate the feeling I’m getting that Wilson is plan A.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Dulac: Arthur Smith Stopped Letting Russell Wilson Change Plays, Creating Friction Between Two

Since the Pittsburgh Steelers’ season ended, multiple reports have painted a rocky relationship between offensive coordinator Arthur Smith and quarterback Russell Wilson. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s Gerry Dulac offered detail over what those issues were. Per Dulac, the issues stem from Smith...

steelersdepot.com

Apparently Smith (Tomlin) ordered Wilson to never change plays at the line of scrimmage.

Color me surprised.

 

[Peat]

There are so many concerning things in that article. A lot of coaches don’t let their QBs audible but you need to give some freedom to make adjustments.

I also hate the feeling I’m getting that Wilson is plan A.

My gut is there's no plan A because there's no agreement in the building on which guy to go for and if there's any consensus, it's probably for the cheapest one.

 

[pistolpete11]

I'd be curious if Smith let other QB's make changes at the line, because that sounds reeeeeeeal familiar.

Anyway, letting the QB make changes at the line is a non-negotiable for me. You MUST let them, especially when they are a 13 year, Super Bowl winning vet. Maybe they get it wrong sometimes, but calling a play in the huddle is just a guess with limited information.

 

[xlm34]

I wish there was more info on how often teams let their QBs audible to a completely different play. I know there’s been talk about Shanahan and Lafleur not really giving a ton of flexible to QBs so I don’t think it’s really uncommon. I found this QB school video:



TLDW is basically that having complete control to change plays whenever you want is rare. So if Smith was telling Wilson that you can’t have that type of control, that’s pretty normal to me. If it’s more constrictive than that, it would be a problem.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

There are so many concerning things in that article. A lot of coaches don’t let their QBs audible but you need to give some freedom to make adjustments.

I also hate the feeling I’m getting that Wilson is plan A.

It got worse each week with RW. Teams would show late adjustments and then RW would try to adjust the play not everyone got it because it would be a 10 second rush. The more tape RW put out yhe worse it got. The Eagles Ravens abd Bengals game were rough

I'd be curious if Smith let other QB's make changes at the line, because that sounds reeeeeeeal familiar.

Anyway, letting the QB make changes at the line is a non-negotiable for me. You MUST let them, especially when they are a 13 year, Super Bowl winning vet. Maybe they get it wrong sometimes, but calling a play in the huddle is just a guess with limited information.

He was still changing plays in the playoffs just dialed it back a ton

 

[Peat]

I wish there was more info on how often teams let their QBs audible to a completely different play. I know there’s been talk about Shanahan and Lafleur not really giving a ton of flexible to QBs so I don’t think it’s really uncommon. I found this QB school video:



TLDW is basically that having complete control to change plays whenever you want is rare. So if Smith was telling Wilson that you can’t have that type of control, that’s pretty normal to me. If it’s more constrictive than that, it would be a problem.

The thing is though that this isn't solely about whether they let the QB change the calls and if so when and how -

But about a pattern of inadequate strategy.

Shanahan and Lafleur don't need to give their QBs a bunch of options and flexibility because when they say "trust me, this call will work" they're right most of the time. Smith, and most Steelers OCs before him, aren't. If Smith wants to make this change (if he did) and it make things better, then right on. But they went from shredding the Bengals to getting stonewalled by them and the more run heavy approach that this is part of is definitely part of why.

In many ways, the most important part of the story isn't whether it's true, it's the fact that the offence was so inadequate that it sounds true.

 

[lastcupever75]

Didn't we hear the same type of thing with pickett? pickett and canada? even Ben and canada ?
now smith and russ
the names change but direction from the guy in charge stays the same.

this is beyond pathetic.
how do some people still defend the head coach of this team

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The thing is though that this isn't solely about whether they let the QB change the calls and if so when and how -

But about a pattern of inadequate strategy.

Shanahan and Lafleur don't need to give their QBs a bunch of options and flexibility because when they say "trust me, this call will work" they're right most of the time. Smith, and most Steelers OCs before him, aren't. If Smith wants to make this change (if he did) and it make things better, then right on. But they went from shredding the Bengals to getting stonewalled by them and the more run heavy approach that this is part of is definitely part of why.

In many ways, the most important part of the story isn't whether it's true, it's the fact that the offence was so inadequate that it sounds true.

the bengals played the same defense and left the mof open because RW ignored it.

 

[Shockmaster]

Apparently Smith (Tomlin) ordered Wilson to never change plays at the line of scrimmage.

Color me surprised.

Because they gotta play STILLER FOOTBALL! Can't be winning games 44-38! Gotta lose them while only scoring in the teens! That's the STILLER WAY!

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

They were 100% running into stacked boxes less and were more heavily using play action when Russ first returned from injury. It is believable that something changed because the offense went from rolling to the same shit we have been seeing for years seemingly instantly.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Because they gotta play STILLER FOOTBALL! Can't be winning games 44-38! Gotta lose them while only scoring in the teens! That's the STILLER WAY!

They stopped with the motions because on the road its harder for everyone to be on the same page with constant audibles. RW is trying to save face because he wants a starting job next season

They were 100% running into stacked boxes less and were more heavily using play action when Russ first returned from injury. It is believable that something changed because the offense went from rolling to the same shit we have been seeing for years seemingly instantly.

They started playing play off teams who took the deep ball away from RW. Teams would change post snap and confuse RW the ravens talked about on hard knocks

 

[Peat]

They stopped with the motions because on the road its harder for everyone to be on the same page with constant audibles. RW is trying to save face because he wants a starting job next season

If we take Dulac at face value, this report can't be just Wilson because it came from several sources.

If we are more cynical, Dulac is the Steelers' mouthpiece and probably isn't doing PR for players that the team doesn't want out there.

And whatever way we spin Dulac's report or Wilson's performance, the idea that the team looked at Wilson's early performances and thought "we have to run it more, lets remove the QB's ability to get away from that" is indefensible given how they ran if this is true.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Didn't Wilson have 2 games towards the end of the season where he threw like 6 and 9 times during the first half, both in games the Steelers were losing the whole time?

I find it hard to believe that would happen unless the QB is being limited on what he can do pre-snap. No qb is going to be like "we're down 14, have averaged 2.1 ypc, and there are 8 defenders in the box. Let's not check out of this toss play that has worked once all season.".

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Former Steelers beat writer Ed Bouchette talking about the Steelers:

 

[JTG]

I wish there was more info on how often teams let their QBs audible to a completely different play. I know there’s been talk about Shanahan and Lafleur not really giving a ton of flexible to QBs so I don’t think it’s really uncommon. I found this QB school video:



TLDW is basically that having complete control to change plays whenever you want is rare. So if Smith was telling Wilson that you can’t have that type of control, that’s pretty normal to me. If it’s more constrictive than that, it would be a problem.

I really don't understand this. I get that the OC wants the offense to run the series of plays he wants because he has a long view and the players don't necessarily have one. That being said, when you have a 36 year old QB who has done this for a really long time...you let him change plays. Fields...maybe not so much yet.

Didn't Wilson have 2 games towards the end of the season where he threw like 6 and 9 times during the first half, both in games the Steelers were losing the whole time?

I find it hard to believe that would happen unless the QB is being limited on what he can do pre-snap. No qb is going to be like "we're down 14, have averaged 2.1 ypc, and there are 8 defenders in the box. Let's not check out of this toss play that has worked once all season.".

And this is kind of my point. And it also makes sense why these offenses look dead for us and they don't even take a last gasp.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If we take Dulac at face value, this report can't be just Wilson because it came from several sources.

If we are more cynical, Dulac is the Steelers' mouthpiece and probably isn't doing PR for players that the team doesn't want out there.

And whatever way we spin Dulac's report or Wilson's performance, the idea that the team looked at Wilson's early performances and thought "we have to run it more, lets remove the QB's ability to get away from that" is indefensible given how they ran if this is true.

Dulac is saying it came after the bengals game which is wrong. If watch the all 22 they started dialing back before then. RW camp leaked similar reports in Denver and in Seattle he wants to start somewhere next season and it might not be here. As more teams got tape on RW it exposed his declining skills and athleticism.
The book was not out on RW play cover 2 take his 1st read away and leave the mof open because he isn’t going to attack it. He couldn’t step into the pocket because he couldn’t see. He used to escape the pocket but he isn’t 26 anymore. The ravens started calling him deep ball and dump off the commentary guys talked about it often
There’s a lot of times when he was changing the plays it was rushed and caused wr to run wrong routes or have 2 guys in the same spot

 

[xlm34]

I really don't understand this. I get that the OC wants the offense to run the series of plays he wants because he has a long view and the players don't necessarily have one. That being said, when you have a 36 year old QB who has done this for a really long time...you let him change plays. Fields...maybe not so much yet.


And this is kind of my point. And it also makes sense why these offenses look dead for us and they don't even take a last gasp.

I don’t know. I get both sides to the whole audible thing. I think the QB should have some freedom but I get the thought behind not wanting the plays to constantly change. Some middle ground makes sense to me.

And while this isn’t the first time we’ve heard this story on the Steelers, it’s also not the first time we’ve heard this story surrounding Wilson.

 

[JTG]

I don’t know. I get both sides to the whole audible thing. I think the QB should have some freedom but I get the thought behind not wanting the plays to constantly change. Some middle ground makes sense to me.

And while this isn’t the first time we’ve heard this story on the Steelers, it’s also not the first time we’ve heard this story surrounding Wilson.

My issue with it, now that I have thought about it, is if you have a wildly intelligent, and productive QB (Ben and basically every coordinator after BA), you have to let the guy who is making millions of dollars because of his skill and intelligence free to play. There's a line, and I think we both recognize that, but say Fields is successful and he's here 2 or 3 years - Fields should have some latitude to call his own plays.

I think Russ earned that right and had they let him, I think the results would have been a bit different. Something happened here. I don't know what it was, but this team did a 180 over night, and I'm really curious as to what caused it.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I really don't understand this. I get that the OC wants the offense to run the series of plays he wants because he has a long view and the players don't necessarily have one. That being said, when you have a 36 year old QB who has done this for a really long time...you let him change plays. Fields...maybe not so much yet.


And this is kind of my point. And it also makes sense why these offenses look dead for us and they don't even take a last gasp.

Just because the 36 year old has done this for a long time doesn’t mean he can physically still do it. Also it effects everyone when the play is changed not just the qb

 

[JTG]

Just because the 36 year old has done this for a long time doesn’t mean he can physically still do it. Also it effects everyone when the play is changed not just the qb

I really don't think it's that he can't do it. I'll stand by that. I think he needs the right situation, and this dictatorial regime we have is never going to let that happen. Russ can play for a decent team. I wouldn't ask him to carry one, like he had to here.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I really don't think it's that he can't do it. I'll stand by that. I think he needs the right situation, and this dictatorial regime we have is never going to let that happen. Russ can play for a decent team. I wouldn't ask him to carry one, like he had to here.

Sure Denver went from the most sacks given up to the playoffs with a rookie instead of RW. Seattle has been fine with Smith. If Vegas isn’t interested in him starting he doesn’t have a market. You don’t want to do a multi year deal with a 36 year old whose declining. The jets are stuck with Rodgers and the Kirk didn’t last the entire season in Atlanta.

 

[xlm34]

My issue with it, now that I have thought about it, is if you have a wildly intelligent, and productive QB (Ben and basically every coordinator after BA), you have to let the guy who is making millions of dollars because of his skill and intelligence free to play. There's a line, and I think we both recognize that, but say Fields is successful and he's here 2 or 3 years - Fields should have some latitude to call his own plays.

I think Russ earned that right and had they let him, I think the results would have been a bit different. Something happened here. I don't know what it was, but this team did a 180 over night, and I'm really curious as to what caused it.

I do kind of question how much freedom Wilson should have given some of what happened in Seattle and Denver, but at the end of the day whatever the Steelers ended up doing didn’t work so…not like it could have been much worse.

I also just wonder who this leak ended up coming from. Dulac is the guy the Steelers use but I can’t imagine why they would want something that makes them look bad out (unless it’s in case they bring Wilson back and this is their explanation as to why he won’t be as bad next year as he was down the stretch). Wilson’s camp makes the most sense, and if that’s the case there may be a bit of exaggeration on what happened.

 

[JTG]

Off topic - but the Norovirus may be the sickest I have ever been in my life. Good gravy.