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OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Its January and we are still talking about Handball!?! Currently 10-6

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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xlm34 said:
And that’s one of the things that I think eventually has to affect trade compensation. If the Steelers have had enough with a receiver then it should raise the largest of red flags after what happened with Brown, Claypool, and Johnson.

They know when to get rid of guys. So if they’re done with him, then I tend to think that things are borderline unsalvageable.
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Yeah. If I'm a GM and I see "Tomlin wants rid of a consistent 800+ yard WR" my reaction is roughly akin to being told that a mechanic's getting rid of their vintage car - if they can't keep it running, neither can I.

My counterpoint would be that it only takes a couple of desperate optimists thinking "headache or not, Pickens is going to do more to get the wins I need right now than pick X" bidding each other up to get a decent return. Even with all the ropey moments on field, we all know how good he can be.

Even then, it's going to detract though. Hell, if you just work out a bid based on raw numbers, then imagine what his numbers look like if Pickens is more polished and focused, you see it right away.
 
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Peat

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Honestly, sometimes the biggest surprise about the Steelers offence is that they scored so many points when so many of the metrics say they were awful. So much of the eye test agrees with it too. I guess when they were hot, they were super hot.

I can't say I have strong feelings either way on Smith. Or maybe that's I have strong feelings both ways that cancel out. I can believe he'd be a great OC with great players, but his persistence in feeding bit players at big moments and stubborness in forcing plays that the team couldn't execute really grated.
 
Jaded-Fan

Jaded-Fan

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When are people going to get that the offense is so handcuffed by Tomlin that the OC is virtually meaningless.

Tomlin is defense first, no mistakes, win games by three, preferably by a defensive turnover and touchdown.

Here are Tomlin's rules:

The offenses only job is to not turn the ball over. Scoring is fine as long as it occurs with almost every play start and end around the line of scrimmage. Even pass plays. Especially pass plays.

Aside from that the offensive coordinator has complete control. Sometimes.
 
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T1K

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Jul 23, 2013
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JTG said:
It's even worse because it's a room of journeymen. If it was an established locker room like the 2000's, he wouldn't be doing this stuff.
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At a certain point Khan has to grow some balls and make a big move. Hopkins went for a 4th round pick. It’s unacceptable Big Mike was the only move he made to address WR.
 
JTG

JTG

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Sep 30, 2007
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T1K said:
At a certain point Khan has to grow some balls and make a big move. Hopkins went for a 4th round pick. It’s unacceptable Big Mike was the only move he made to address WR.
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Hopkins really hasn't put up better stats than Williams the last few years and he's older. Williams is also faster (especially at this point)...which may have been a thing they wanted.
 

cookthebooks

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Oct 4, 2017
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pickens seems like a great teammate who only melts down when they lose to me

also he may be a prima donna head case loser, but surely the ravens who spent the week poking him for being soft are pretty dumb as well? either way bit of a reputation game coming up for george and i am a believer still
 
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Buddy Bizarre

Buddy Bizarre

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Jul 9, 2021
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Jaded-Fan said:
When are people going to get that the offense is so handcuffed by Tomlin that the OC is virtually meaningless.

Tomlin is defense first, no mistakes, win games by three, preferably by a defensive turnover and touchdown.

Here are Tomlin's rules:

The offenses only job is to not turn the ball over. Scoring is fine as long as it occurs with almost every play start and end around the line of scrimmage. Even pass plays. Especially pass plays.

Aside from that the offensive coordinator has complete control. Sometimes.
Click to expand...

"If we don't think we can hold the team down enough to outscore them, then we have to play keep away" is as scaredy-cat as it gets.
 
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pistolpete11

pistolpete11

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Apr 27, 2013
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I believe the question posed to him in this clip was something like "You had the 4th most rushing attempts, but were near the bottom in Y/A. Why did you keep running the ball when it wasn't effective?"



THIS IS WHAT TOMLIN WANTS!​


We can all complain about Najee, the line, the play calling, etc., and much of it may be true, but the root of the problem is Tomlin. This is the way he wants his team to play. Waste time, don't turn it over, keep it close, hope you can somehow pull it out in the end. Against a lot of teams, it can work, but it leaves very little margin for error. So when you're outmatched or even evenly matched, a player makes a mistake, you turn over the ball once or twice, a bad call, etc., it turns the game into at best a coin flip. Against good teams, you're hoping for something spectacular.

For reference, the only teams to run the ball more than the Steelers this year, the Lions, Eagles (duh), and the Ravens (double duh) who finished 6th, 5th, and 1st in Y/A. The Steelers finished 20th.
 
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pistolpete11

pistolpete11

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Apr 27, 2013
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Peat said:
Yeah. If I'm a GM and I see "Tomlin wants rid of a consistent 800+ yard WR" my reaction is roughly akin to being told that a mechanic's getting rid of their vintage car - if they can't keep it running, neither can I.

My counterpoint would be that it only takes a couple of desperate optimists thinking "headache or not, Pickens is going to do more to get the wins I need right now than pick X" bidding each other up to get a decent return. Even with all the ropey moments on field, we all know how good he can be.

Even then, it's going to detract though. Hell, if you just work out a bid based on raw numbers, then imagine what his numbers look like if Pickens is more polished and focused, you see it right away.
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I think the hope is GM's look at the Steelers offense and think "Yeah, he has a right to be frustrated. We'll use him differently and make him the focal point of the offense. That will keep him (mostly) in line."

I definitely think the attitude stuff will dampen the return regardless, but NFL GMs and coaches are too stupid/desperate/egotistical to ignore that much talent. And ya know, also sometimes they are right, too. Look at Hill. The Dolphins took him on knowing the problems and they got back-to-back 1,700 yard seasons out of him. It's blown up in their faces now, but a team might be happy to get 2 seasons out of him.
 
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pistolpete11

pistolpete11

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cookthebooks said:
guy blocks like a demon, first to celebrate with his teammates when they make a huge play, etc
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:laugh: No. No he doesn't. in fact, there's multiple instances of him not even trying to block.

He could. He's big enough, physical enough, aggressive enough, but we're back to being a shitty teammate. Because he doesn't want to.
 
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