OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Its January and we are still talking about Handball!?! Currently 10-6

[JTG]

I don't think Freiermuth is worth the money either. Or Minkah. Minkah obviously brings other things, but even then, has this team performed under his leadership on the field? TJ Watt and Cam Heyward are the only two guys that I'd absolutely stick by until they retire. Everyone else is replaceable.

I don't think anything should be off limits if this team tanks next game. To get big changes you have to make big changes. This playoff game should be a day of reckoning, but it won't be.

And for those that want Tomlin traded - dude got a NTC

First Call: The roadblock facing teams trading for Mike Tomlin; Steelers-Ravens officials revealed

Tuesday’s “First Call” has a wrinkle in the conversation about the idea of teams trading for Pittsburgh Steelers coach Mike Tomlin. We get to know the officials for Saturday’s Steelers-Ravens game. An ex-Steeler and Raven has joined a different AFC playoff club. And we examine the opponents of...

triblive.com

I don’t understand why people are ok with Trading Gp we don’t have any other play makers. They need to invest in the offense so when they have to trade up for a Qb in 26 or 27 you have the infrastructure in place
Go with JF at Qb draft a flyer or trade for a Richardson levis type. Hire the best o line coach

Because you can trade away and draft again. I like the idea of using Pickens as a chip to trade up.

This isn't Madden - Pickens, despite his production, is a massive problem.

 

[xlm34]

I don't think Freiermuth is worth the money either. Or Minkah. Minkah obviously brings other things, but even then, has this team performed under his leadership on the field? TJ Watt and Cam Heyward are the only two guys that I'd absolutely stick by until they retire. Everyone else is replaceable.

I don't think anything should be off limits if this team tanks next game. To get big changes you have to make big changes. This playoff game should be a day of reckoning, but it won't be.



Because you can trade away and draft again. I like the idea of using Pickens as a chip to trade up.

This isn't Madden - Pickens, despite his production, is a massive problem.

Queen jumps to 17 million next year I think so he’s another guy that I would consider useful but overpaid. He’s better than he was at the beginning of the year but I would consider him a kind of disappointing signing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don’t understand why people are ok with Trading Gp we don’t have any other play makers. They need to invest in the offense so when they have to trade up for a Qb in 26 or 27 you have the infrastructure in place
Go with JF at Qb draft a flyer or trade for a Richardson levis type. Hire the best o line coach

Pickens doesn't produce enough to deal with all of his issues.

The dude doesn't try on plays that aren't targeting him, throws shit fits when he's not being targeted enough and has had multiple games of playing down in important matchups (with last week being a golden example). The talent isn't worth the problems at this point.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Pickens lead the league last in yards after catch with 3 back up Qbs. This season would have been another 1000 plus receiving yards with another round of back up QBs had he not missed 3 games. He is still 23 years old.

 

[ImporterExporter]

No leadership and a revolving door of petulant babies making millions. No real attempt to get them in line.

Tomlin. AB. Bell. JuJu. Claypool, Pickens.

Connect the dots and you'll understand what the problem is.

 

[JTG]

Queen jumps to 17 million next year I think so he’s another guy that I would consider useful but overpaid. He’s better than he was at the beginning of the year but I would consider him a kind of disappointing signing.

He needs to be cut.

Pickens lead the league last in yards after catch with 3 back up Qbs. This season would have been another 1000 plus receiving yards with another round of back up QBs had he not missed 3 games. He is still 23 years old.

You're not understanding that his production is secondary.

 

[JTG]

I don't even know what I'd like to see for this team. Vrabel seems like a natural pick, but I would really like to see an offensive coach here.

 

[Peat]

Muth had top 10 TE receiving stats and his deal barely pokes into the top 10 of TE contracts. Don't see the problem there.

edit: And going back to @JTG's post, I think if they really wanted to trade him, they could persuade him to waive his NTC. But they don't, that's the main problem.

 

[pistolpete11]

I don't even know what I'd like to see for this team. Vrabel seems like a natural pick, but I would really like to see an offensive coach here.

Isn't Vrabel all but assured to be getting the Patriots job?

 

[T1K]

Isn't Vrabel all but assured to be getting the Patriots job?

I’ve seen speculation that Ben Johnson would be interested in coaching Maye.

I would be fine with something like a Pickens and a 4th for a 2nd. I don't think I'd trade him for just a 3rd, but getting another 2nd to draft a DT/CB would be worth it. You just may need to add on top of him to make that deal possible.

Pickens is worth way more than that.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Every NFL lockeroom is full of divas and egomaniacs. Some franchises can make it work and some can't.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’ve seen speculation that Ben Johnson would be interested in coaching Maye.

Pickens is worth way more than that.

Based on what exactly?

The rumored agreed upon price for Aiyuk was something like a 2nd and 4th, and Aiyuk was coming off a season with 1342 receiving yards compared to 900 for Pickens. Even if you want to argue that Pickens and Aiyuk are similar talents (I'd give a slight edge to Aiyuk personally), Pickens established locker room issues dating back to college absolutely hurts his value.

I think you can probably get a late 2nd for Pickens but that's about the best I could possibly see.

 

[T1K]

Based on what exactly?

The rumored agreed upon price for Aiyuk was something like a 2nd and 4th, and Aiyuk was coming off a season with 1342 receiving yards compared to 900 for Pickens. Even if you want to argue that Pickens and Aiyuk are similar talents (I'd give a slight edge to Aiyuk personally), Pickens established locker room issues dating back to college absolutely hurts his value.

I think you can probably get a late 2nd for Pickens but that's about the best I could possibly see.

A rumored agreement is pretty much worthless and not a baseline for a trade. He’s still on his rookie contract. It makes no sense to trade him. You can cherry pick his stats all you want but we both know he would’ve exceeded 1k yards this year if he didn’t get injured.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A rumored agreement is pretty much worthless and not a baseline for a trade. He’s still on his rookie contract. It makes no sense to trade him. You can cherry pick his stats all you want but we both know he would’ve exceeded 1k yards this year if he didn’t get injured.

The agreed upon deal with the Browns and 49ers that Aiyuk didn't allow was Cooper and a 2nd, where Cooper was later traded for a 3rd. A 2nd and 3rd/4th for Aiyuk was about what Aiyuk was going to bring back.

With his attitude issues, there's no chance that he's bringing back as much as what SF was getting offered for Aiyuk. Pickens doesn't try on routes that aren't passes to him and he acts like a baby when the ball isn't thrown to him.

 

[T1K]

The agreed upon deal with the Browns and 49ers that Aiyuk didn't allow was Cooper and a 2nd, where Cooper was later traded for a 3rd. A 2nd and 3rd/4th for Aiyuk was about what Aiyuk was going to bring back.

With his attitude issues, there's no chance that he's bringing back as much as what SF was getting offered for Aiyuk. Pickens doesn't try on routes that aren't passes to him and he acts like a baby when the ball isn't thrown to him.

Ok well cooper + 2nd for Aiyuk is not remotely close to the same thing as the trade you suggested of Pickens + 4th for a 2nd. I don’t see how that helps the Steelers at all.

 

[JTG]

Isn't Vrabel all but assured to be getting the Patriots job?

I have no idea. I'm sure he is.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The agreed upon deal with the Browns and 49ers that Aiyuk didn't allow was Cooper and a 2nd, where Cooper was later traded for a 3rd. A 2nd and 3rd/4th for Aiyuk was about what Aiyuk was going to bring back.

With his attitude issues, there's no chance that he's bringing back as much as what SF was getting offered for Aiyuk. Pickens doesn't try on routes that aren't passes to him and he acts like a baby when the ball isn't thrown to him.

There’s a world where you make GP play on the franchise Tag like Higgins was looking at but that’s in 26
Aiyuk was already on his 5th year option and the 49ers didn’t want to pay him DJ moore money

 

[pistolpete11]

I’ve seen speculation that Ben Johnson would be interested in coaching Maye.

Really? That's interesting. I saw he was going to be picky even if it meant passing on a HC gig this year and wants a QB he can work with which makes sense with Maye, but man....the Patriots kinda suck. Like really suck. A lot of work to do there on both sides of the ball. Wouldn't be my choice for a job if I was being selective.

 

[T1K]

Really? That's interesting. I saw he was going to be picky even if it meant passing on a HC gig this year and wants a QB he can work with which makes sense with Maye, but man....the Patriots kinda suck. Like really suck. A lot of work to do there on both sides of the ball. Wouldn't be my choice for a job if I was being selective.

Me either. Maye is a good piece, but the rest of the roster is a mess. Quite frankly I was shocked he passed on Washington — presumably he could’ve influenced them to take Maye then if he liked him so much, but maybe it was his NFL tape which has been a bigger factor. Johnson seems to be focused solely on winning a Super Bowl this year so it’s tough to pinpoint what his motivations are.

Apparently he didn’t get along with Washington’s new owners so maybe he just really likes Kraft?

 

[The Old Master]

i think i would get rid of the other cancer/cancers in the room before i trade Pickens.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Really? That's interesting. I saw he was going to be picky even if it meant passing on a HC gig this year and wants a QB he can work with which makes sense with Maye, but man....the Patriots kinda suck. Like really suck. A lot of work to do there on both sides of the ball. Wouldn't be my choice for a job if I was being selective.

Its the Pats Bears or Jacksonville

 

[Jaded-Fan]

That was part of it I’m sure but there was an Athletic piece with anonymous front office guys/coaches/scouts and these were some of the quotes on Pickens:

Actually, he did go to the right place.

I give Tomlin tons of grief. He deserves all of it and more. But, he does get players to buy in and to play for him. Players love him.

Hell, he controlled Brown for years. And got production. If Tomlin can't deal with him no coach can.

I feel dirty giving Tomlin props.

 

[JTG]

People under estimate how much a guy can crush a room. He needs to go. He's going to be productive elsewhere, but it won't be here.

 

[xlm34]

Actually, he did go to the right place.

I give Tomlin tons of grief. He deserves all of it and more. But, he does get players to buy in and to play for him. Players love him.

Hell, he controlled Brown for years. And got production. If Tomlin can't deal with him no coach can.

I feel dirty giving Tomlin props.

And that’s one of the things that I think eventually has to affect trade compensation. If the Steelers have had enough with a receiver then it should raise the largest of red flags after what happened with Brown, Claypool, and Johnson.

They know when to get rid of guys. So if they’re done with him, then I tend to think that things are borderline unsalvageable.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

People under estimate how much a guy can crush a room. He needs to go. He's going to be productive elsewhere, but it won't be here.

I don’t think he is crushing the room when its full of journeymen