OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Its January and we are still talking about Handball!?! Currently 10-6

[pistolpete11]

Who wins a playoff series first?

Penguins, Steelers or Pirates?

The fact that you hesitated even a fraction of a moment in answering speaks volumes.

I mean, the easy bet is the Steelers. They are the only team that makes the playoffs somewhat consistently now and anything can happen in 1 game. The other 2 aren't going to make the playoffs any time soon (Penguins because of an aging core and blind allegiance to a shit coach, Pirates because of a cheap ass owner) and then would have to win multiple games. Could maybe see an argument for the Pirates if the WC was still 1 game and they had Skenes going, but alas it's not.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

Here is an even better perspective - Jim Harbaugh spent the last ten years coaching in college and he still has more NFL playoff wins (5) than Mike Tomlin (3) since 2010

oof

 

[MrBrightside]

On the flip side, much like Tomlin, John Harbaugh has only won 3 playoff games since the 2012-2013 season.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I'd hope they could get more than a 3rd and if not, I'd hope he goes to the NFC. He's a headcase that will inevitably cause problems, but a team might be able to manage it for a while.

I think Atlanta makes a lot of sense. They have London, but Ray-Ray McCloud is their 3rd leading receiver for crying out loud. They'll want to surround Penix with some more talent, they are close enough to a playoff team that they might be willing to spend some draft capitol for a sure thing, and there's the he played at Georgia connection.

Commanders might make some sense, too. I think they overachieved a bit with Daniels playing hero ball, but their leading receiver is Terry McLaurin who's a solid player, but is also going to be 30 years old.

In general, if he's traded, I agree with @Peat that he probably won't end up on one of the top teams. Good teams don't need to introduce a potential problem like Pickens. I think it'll be a team that is looking to take the next step (like the Eagles when they got Brown, Dolphins when they got Hill, or the Texans with Diggs) or a desperate team.

The Falcons don't have the picks to trade for GP. They only have a 1,2,4,7. With London being a true #1, they can supplement through Free Agency.

Commanders do have the picks and a lot of the mocks have them taking a WR with one of their first two picks. And they have a hefty amount of cap space in case they want to sign GP to an extension. So they are a good option.

Another couple of options are the Raiders and Patriots. Both have a crap ton of salary cap space, (Pats=126mil, LV=97mil) and the need for a WR. Raiders have 1,2,3,3 for picks, Patriots have 1,2,3,3 for picks. So both have an extra 3rd that is close to a 2nd round pick.

My choice would be the 2nd round pick but that might be too high, yes I know Claypool got that but after what happened with him I can see teams not being willing to do that. Maybe the Steelers could trade their 2nd round pick with Pickens for the higher 2nd plus one the 3rds from those teams. so something like:

PIT: Pickens + 53rd
LV: 37th + 73rd

 

[xlm34]

Yeah I don’t how much Pickens could realistically get. All the talk on him before the draft and why he slipped to the second was basically “Yeah this guy has all the talent in the world but I don’t want to deal with him.”

And so far he’s been exactly what everyone thought he’d be plus you’re going to have pay him 25+ million.

 

[pistolpete11]

The Falcons don't have the picks to trade for GP. They only have a 1,2,4,7. With London being a true #1, they can supplement through Free Agency.

Drake is a #1, but he's all they have at WR. I don't think it's much different than the Steelers having Pickens and trying all year to get Aiyuk, Kupp, Adams, etc. It depends on philosophy, cap, etc., but having 2 good WR is not against the rules.

If they don't have the picks, like you said, they could swap a pick with the Steelers. Pickens+4th for their 2nd or something. Although, as a Steeler fan, I'd prefer getting additional picks, not just a higher pick.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would be fine with something like a Pickens and a 4th for a 2nd. I don't think I'd trade him for just a 3rd, but getting another 2nd to draft a DT/CB would be worth it. You just may need to add on top of him to make that deal possible.

 

[pistolpete11]

Yeah I don’t how much Pickens could realistically get. All the talk on him before the draft and why he slipped to the second was basically “Yeah this guy has all the talent in the world but I don’t want to deal with him.”

And so far he’s been exactly what everyone thought he’d be plus you’re going to have pay him 25+ million.

I thought he mostly fell because he tore his ACL?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I thought he mostly fell because he tore his ACL?

I think it was both that plus his attitude.

From NFL draft buzz:

• Elephant in the room is his ACL injury and the extent it's hurt his value - is undetermined. Although he looked fast at the combine which should help shift some doubts
• Has a number of off-the-field issues - he was suspended for violating team rules and has been ejected for punching another player. He has been called undisciplined by his own head coach - likely scare a number of NFL teams off

Both were big issues.

 

[xlm34]

I thought he mostly fell because he tore his ACL?

That was part of it I’m sure but there was an Athletic piece with anonymous front office guys/coaches/scouts and these were some of the quotes on Pickens:

Which WR is the most boom-or-bust guy?

Scout 2: George Pickens. There’s a lot of upside, but he can’t get out of his own way. He’s been enabled his whole life.

WR Coach 3: Pickens. You love his game, but there’s some issues. Do you want to work with him? He’s a top-6 talent-wise, but it’s impossible not to add those other things. He has the size, has really good range. He positions his body on deep throws. He consistently beats press coverage. Has good start-stops with some AI (Allen Iverson) crossover in his game. A lot of the stuff in (Todd Monken’s) system translates to the NFL. But I wouldn’t touch him.

WR Coach 5 on Pickens: On tape, he is probably a top-5 wide receiver but there’s just so many red flags, and they’re big red flags. He’s got a lot of growing up to do. If he goes to the right place with a room full of veterans that help him go the right way, I think he’ll have a chance.”

 

[pistolpete11]

I would be fine with something like a Pickens and a 4th for a 2nd. I don't think I'd trade him for just a 3rd, but getting another 2nd to draft a DT/CB would be worth it. You just may need to add on top of him to make that deal possible.

I'd be fine with swapping picks, but with the draft being deep at DL and RB, I think getting extra bodies could be the way to go, too. I'd think a team would be willing to risk it given his talent to get a 2nd, but even if it's only a 3rd:

1st : WR
2nd : CB
3rd: DL
3rd : RB
4th : double dip on DL or WR

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd be fine with swapping picks, but with the draft being deep at DL and RB, I think getting extra bodies could be the way to go, too. I'd think a team would be willing to risk it given his talent to get a 2nd, but even if it's only a 3rd:

1st : WR
2nd : CB
3rd: DL
3rd : RB
4th : double dip on DL or WR

Yeah that's a good point, I was wanting to get a 2nd because I wanted to make sure I got a good DL and CB with their 2nds. But if you can still get a good DL with the 3rd you're getting for Pickens, I'm good with that as well.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Yeah that's a good point, I was wanting to get a 2nd because I wanted to make sure I got a good DL and CB with their 2nds. But if you can still get a good DL with the 3rd you're getting for Pickens, I'm good with that as well.

Yeah, a very high third, like the Patriots (69th) or Raiders (68th) could be fine as well. Contract length is the same as a 2nd.

I'd rather see if I could get the high 2nd in some way. As much as we complain about GP he still has been productive. He is easily worth a 2nd from that standpoint. And next season he is still a very cheap salary.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't have particularly strong feelings about this, if this team has a spare draft pick from acquiring Pickens, how would people feel about drafting a QB like Beck or Howard in the 3rd or 4th round? They'll need to get another QB high in the draft at some point to get their QB of the future, but I don't see a ton of holes on the team (that realistically would be filled with a late 3rd or 4th) and I would probably prefer to have a dartboard throw at a QB over another WR if I could pick.

Beck could end up going fairly high and I wouldn't want to take him if that's the case, but using a 4th rounder on Howard to see if there's anything there to develop (even into an effective backup) seems like a decent idea. The scouting report I'm reading on Howard suggests his upside is more of a high end backup, but getting that for a 4th seems worth it:

Howard's 2024 tape requires careful parsing - while his statistical production impressed, context matters. Operating behind NFL-caliber protection with elite weapons, 40.4% of his attempts went to wide-open targets. The Rose Bowl performance validated his ceiling as a rhythm passer, but lingering mechanical inconsistencies and processing limitations against pressure suggest a high-end backup projection.

His ideal role would be backing up an established starter where he can refine his platform mechanics while providing capable insurance. The physical tools are NFL-caliber - particularly his size/arm strength combination and comfort under center. However, tight-window accuracy and off-script playmaking need significant development.

Projects as a developmental day three selection who could outperform his draft slot in the right system. Smart offensive coordinators will leverage his play-action prowess and intermediate accuracy while masking his limitations against complex defensive looks. His floor appears relatively high for a late-round quarterback given his experience and physical traits.

 

[pistolpete11]

For those that follow the draft closer, how is this year for WR?

Looking around at a few places, seems kinda weak, or maybe top heavy is a better way to describe it. That will play a factor in how much teams are willing to give up for Pickens as well.

 

[xlm34]

I don't have particularly strong feelings about this, if this team has a spare draft pick from acquiring Pickens, how would people feel about drafting a QB like Beck or Howard in the 3rd or 4th round? They'll need to get another QB high in the draft at some point to get their QB of the future, but I don't see a ton of holes on the team (that realistically would be filled with a late 3rd or 4th) and I would probably prefer to have a dartboard throw at a QB over another WR if I could pick.

Beck could end up going fairly high and I wouldn't want to take him if that's the case, but using a 4th rounder on Howard to see if there's anything there to develop (even into an effective backup) seems like a decent idea. The scouting report I'm reading on Howard suggests his upside is more of a high end backup, but getting that for a 4th seems worth it:

Until they find a QB I’m fine with them just gathering all the lottery tickets they can find. Gimme a Fields, gimme a day 3 dart throw, etc. Maybe you get lucky.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Until they find a QB I’m fine with them just gathering all the lottery tickets they can find. Gimme a Fields, gimme a day 3 dart throw, etc. Maybe you get lucky.

Yeah Howard seems to be an especially worthwhile gamble because his size and arm are both good and he ran a pro style offense with Ohio last year, the big knock against him is that he's old. Throwing a dartboard throw at him to start as a QB3 behind Fields and a backup seems like a decent enough idea.

He's probably not your future QB but stranger things have happened. Maybe Fields pans out as a starter and Howard becomes a great backup, so you end up with a former Ohio State QB room.

Rourke is another guy in that likely 4th/5th round range that I think could be worthwhile taking.

 

[xlm34]

For those that follow the draft closer, how is this year for WR?

Looking around at a few places, seems kinda weak, or maybe top heavy is a better way to describe it. That will play a factor in how much teams are willing to give up for Pickens as well.

Hunter if he plays WR which I personally think he’s a better CB, McMillan, and Burden seem to be the only consensus first rounders.

The whole draft in general seems all over the place. There isn’t a lot of top talent, so one team might have a guy as a 3rd rounder that others like as first rounders. It’s gonna be a weird one I think.

 

[pistolpete11]

I don't have particularly strong feelings about this, if this team has a spare draft pick from acquiring Pickens, how would people feel about drafting a QB like Beck or Howard in the 3rd or 4th round? They'll need to get another QB high in the draft at some point to get their QB of the future, but I don't see a ton of holes on the team (that realistically would be filled with a late 3rd or 4th) and I would probably prefer to have a dartboard throw at a QB over another WR if I could pick.

Beck could end up going fairly high and I wouldn't want to take him if that's the case, but using a 4th rounder on Howard to see if there's anything there to develop (even into an effective backup) seems like a decent idea. The scouting report I'm reading on Howard suggests his upside is more of a high end backup, but getting that for a 4th seems worth it:

Part of it will be what they do in FA. I'd probably not go WR, but I'd still lean towards drafting someone at a different position that could develop into a contributor. Double dip at DL, maybe get a swing OT if they let Moore go, another OG since Daniels is likely gone , TE to replace Pruitt or Heyward, S, can never have too many LB.

Also, it's funny/depressing that we are talking draft with a playoff game coming up in 4 days

Edit: They could also use one of those picks to trade for a lesser vet WR if they miss out on Godwin or anyone else in FA. Really can't go into next year with a draft pick, Austin, and Wilson.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don’t understand why people are ok with Trading Gp we don’t have any other play makers. They need to invest in the offense so when they have to trade up for a Qb in 26 or 27 you have the infrastructure in place
Go with JF at Qb draft a flyer or trade for a Richardson levis type. Hire the best o line coach

 

[Peat]

The Steelers always have a chance to flip a pick move up into more picks on draft day.

It's also possible - although people wouldn't love it - they take a pick next year to make it work.

In any case, I think it has to be done, as he's a problem player whose main problems are between the whistles and those shouldn't be paid outside desperation teams. But that sentence includes the reason I think he might be extended here - if this team doesn't win a playoff game this season, it starts to look like a desperation team.

So with all these rumblings of problems in the lockerroom for however many years in a row now, can we admit that Tomlin isn't the "leader of men" he's made out to be? I'm not even saying he's not a good leader, but people talk about him like he has magic power that will keep these divas in line and he simply doesn't. All he does is shield it from the media so that we don't hear about it....until that player is traded of course. Then we hear about how they've caused problems for years and this latest incidence is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

You're never going to have a team of angels in the NFL, but maybe it's time they focus on getting high character guys again.

Yeah, I'd agree. Hell, I'm willing to believe he's an incredible leader of men like he's made out to be, but everyone who's ever been in a leadership position knows there's moments where you need magical powers nobody has to carry along everyone - and that the best thing you can do as a leader in those moments is cut some people out.

And I think that Tomlin has been writing checks he cannot cash because he doesn't have magical powers on that front, and I think a hard reset is needed.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Looking at the snap counts

Cam Sutton = 61 snaps
Beanie Bishop = 6. And he picked a pass off

This was the game after where players were calling out there was a person in the secondary who is "doing his own thing". Note that Sutton went off script on the Chase TD against Trice (who was expecting help)

Is this what accountability looks like?

 

[xlm34]

I don’t understand why people are ok with Trading Gp we don’t have any other play makers. They need to invest in the offense so when they have to trade up for a Qb in 26 or 27 you have the infrastructure in place
Go with JF at Qb draft a flyer or trade for a Richardson levis type. Hire the best o line coach

I think a lot of people aren’t comfortable giving 25-30 million to a guy that has played a major part in them losing against Dallas and Cincinnati (and the Colts with the fumble) because he seemingly decided to just not try.

A little bit of drama is going to happen with most Wide Receivers but if you’re handing out a big contract, you need at least feel good that you’re going to get effort from the guy.

 

[Peat]

I don’t understand why people are ok with Trading Gp we don’t have any other play makers. They need to invest in the offense so when they have to trade up for a Qb in 26 or 27 you have the infrastructure in place
Go with JF at Qb draft a flyer or trade for a Richardson levis type. Hire the best o line coach

I mean, if you want my feelings in full, I'm not at all okay with the WR room they'll have after trading Pickens.

It's just I'm even less okay with paying Pickens to be here a long time as WR1 and the big dog in that room. I don't want to continue the Steelers' long and prestigious tradition of having a rotten pro as the senior guy in the room and I don't want to trust a guy whose biggest problems are between the whistles to be the guy.

I don't have particularly strong feelings about this, if this team has a spare draft pick from acquiring Pickens, how would people feel about drafting a QB like Beck or Howard in the 3rd or 4th round? They'll need to get another QB high in the draft at some point to get their QB of the future, but I don't see a ton of holes on the team (that realistically would be filled with a late 3rd or 4th) and I would probably prefer to have a dartboard throw at a QB over another WR if I could pick.

Beck could end up going fairly high and I wouldn't want to take him if that's the case, but using a 4th rounder on Howard to see if there's anything there to develop (even into an effective backup) seems like a decent idea. The scouting report I'm reading on Howard suggests his upside is more of a high end backup, but getting that for a 4th seems worth it:

Tbh, from 4th/5th round on, my philosophy is the team should just take whatever talent there is that fits. If that guy is a QB, cool, do it. I don't know the prospects well enough to know how I feel about them as players but the idea is fine.

I'll also be perfectly fine if they don't touch QB in the draft at all and just try to fill as many holes as possible. Weak QB year, plenty of holes. All I ask is that they be right.

I think a lot of people aren’t comfortable giving 25-30 million to a guy that has played a major part in them losing against Dallas and Cincinnati (and the Colts with the fumble) because he seemingly decided to just not try.

A little bit of drama is going to happen with most Wide Receivers but if you’re handing out a big contract, you need at least feel good that you’re going to get effort from the guy.

Even when he's trying, there's still a possibility he's going to have one of those frustrated low confidence games where he fails to catch multiple catchable important passes.

As of today, the guy just does not have the mental fortitude and desire to fulfill his talent. Maybe him getting traded somewhere else lights a fire and we wonder why it didn't happen here, but I think that's no longer this team's concern.

 

[Pens1566]

Pickens on field production is simply not worth the $$$ or the headache. He's got an over inflated sense of self worth based on making a circus catch every 3 or 4 games or so.