OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[DanielPlainview]

Chicago is a trash organization and I wouldn't put much stock in them helping their QB's maximize their potential, talent and overall abilities. When was the last time the Bears were relevant? Their ineptitude has spanned many decades with a few years of mediocrity mixed in.

Regarding Fields tenure at OSU, I didn't follow him all that closely TBTH.

Your assertion he's not that good will either be proven out or dismissed as the year unfolds. But we can agree he's off to a much better start here than in Chicago. He's 25, to act as if he can't evolve or take strides in his development is pretty shortsighted. TBH I didn't think he would be as accurate as he has thus far. He has a ways to go, but so far so good.

Our running game was nearly invisible until the 4th quarter. Fields arm largely carried the offense until that point. We rushed on our last nine carries for 81 yards. Prior to that we garnered very little on the ground and made our hay through the air.

Pittsburgh has been a mediocre-at-best organization since Dan handed things off to The Deuce. I wouldn't exactly want to get on that high horse.

I watched Fields at Ohio State for two years. I said the same things about his game then as I do now. Nothing has really changed. He's the same guy just a little more mature.

He's 25 but in his fourth year as a NFL QB. He should be showing signs of improvement. Has he actually improved or is he simply in a less complex offense that asks less of him? Maybe a little bit of both, but based on what I'm seeing, it's mostly the latter. He's lucky the league (and media) are in love with running black QBs right now, or else he'd have been Zach Wilson'd.

 

[Pengwins]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838940089910513965

Gabe Davis would be a nice fit

 

[T1K]

DHop, Kirk, Gabe are all solid targets. Of that bunch, the obviously I’d prefer DHop. Despite his age he can still ball out. He had an MCL injury but seems to be fine going off the box score last week.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hopkins would be a dope guy to trade for, he's the kind of veteran I can also see re-signing for pretty cheap because of Tomlin too.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Gabe Davis is pretty Pickens-like, so eh probably not. Would they trade Kirk? He'd be a great fit.

From Tennessee you're either making a move for DHop as a vet 1B or a guy like Burks who you think has promise.

 

[Shockmaster]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838940089910513965

Gabe Davis would be a nice fit

Now if Tomlin doesn't want to dress Roman Wilson because of a "moving train", what are the odds any new WR Khan trades for hardly sees playing time?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Now if Tomlin doesn't want to dress Roman Wilson because of a "moving train", what are the odds any new WR Khan trades for hardly sees playing time?

There's a massive difference between a 3rd round rookie and someone like DeAndre Hopkins.

 

[Pengwins]

Gabe Davis is pretty Pickens-like, so eh probably not. Would they trade Kirk? He'd be a great fit.

From Tennessee you're either making a move for DHop as a vet 1B or a guy like Burks who you think has promise.

Gabe Davis is the best blocking WR in the league tho.

 

[T1K]

Now if Tomlin doesn't want to dress Roman Wilson because of a "moving train", what are the odds any new WR Khan trades for hardly sees playing time?

I think this is more of a boomer mentality about a rookie “earning it”. Calvin Austin didn’t play his rookie year after seemingly being healthy enough to play after coming off IR. It’s insane to me that they’d rather play Van Jeff over Wilson, but it is what it is.

 

[WickedWrister]

This is definitely cherry picking favorable stats but Fields is QB3 in EPA on intermediate passes (5-15 air yards)

 

[Peat]

This is definitely cherry picking favorable stats but Fields is QB3 in EPA on intermediate passes (5-15 air yards)

Intermediate passes was definitely a weakness of his before though.

 

[WickedWrister]

Intermediate passes was definitely a weakness of his before though.

Yeah IIRC when we talked about this last time, he was only above the mean in deep ball passing based on his Chicago Bears tenure.

 

[pistolpete11]

Is that what Tomlin and Smith actually want? Bringing in Russell Wilson suggests not. But it’s what they’re going with for the time being.

This has Tomlin written all over it.

Yes, Smith wants to run the ball a lot, but when he was the OC in Tennessee, they got chunk plays when they did pass. They were 6th in NY/A in 2020 and 2019. They are 21st so far this year.

Some of it can certainly be attributed to the Steelers WRs outside of Pickens not being very good, but I think it's mostly that Tomlin is crazy risk adverse to begin with and it's made even worse by not trusting Fields.

 

[WickedWrister]

Ok, last stat dump but I found this one interesting... Calvin Austin and Van Jefferson have the 2nd and 3rd lowest separation grades in the entire league lol.



This is what would give me some pause about how sustainable this success is for the offense... there hasn't been a ton of "easy" completions where guys are wide ass open. The 3rd and long conversion to Austin up the seam was the only one I can think of from the game on Sunday.

 

[T1K]

This has Tomlin written all over it.

Yes, Smith wants to run the ball a lot, but when he was the OC in Tennessee, they got chunk plays when they did pass. They were 6th in NY/A in 2020 and 2019. They are 21st so far this year.

Some of it can certainly be attributed to the Steelers WRs outside of Pickens not being very good, but I think it's mostly that Tomlin is crazy risk adverse to begin with and it's made even worse by not trusting Fields.

The game scripts haven’t really forced them to pass

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think this is more of a boomer mentality about a rookie “earning it”. Calvin Austin didn’t play his rookie year after seemingly being healthy enough to play after coming off IR. It’s insane to me that they’d rather play Van Jeff over Wilson, but it is what it is.

Why blame Boomers for Tomlin?

We are not perfect but we also are not the cause of everything wrong in the world. Tomlin can do dumb things on his own without our help.

 

[pistolpete11]

The game scripts haven’t really forced them to pass

"Forced to pass" is part of the Tomlinball that I'm railing against, but more importantly it's the type of passes they are throwing. I'm fine being a run heavy offense that picks up big chunks in the passing game. It's the 49ers blueprint and it's what Smith did in Tennessee. It's a feasible way to score points.

However, that is not really what we are getting. It's been marginally better with Smith/Fields than Canada/Pickett, but the results are essentially the same to this point.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Ok, last stat dump but I found this one interesting... Calvin Austin and Van Jefferson have the 2nd and 3rd lowest separation grades in the entire league lol.



This is what would give me some pause about how sustainable this success is for the offense... there hasn't been a ton of "easy" completions where guys are wide ass open. The 3rd and long conversion to Austin up the seam was the only one I can think of from the game on Sunday.

Kind of a misleading stat.

If your passes are mostly within three to five yards from the line of scrimmage how much separation can you expect?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kind of a misleading stat.

If your passes are mostly within three to five yards from the line of scrimmage how much separation can you expect?

The distance of the throws isn't that relevant to the separation that the WRs can make.

This year, Fields has a IAY/PA (intended air yards per pass attempt) of 5.9. Hurts has a IAY/PA of 6.8, but his WRs are getting drastically more separation than the Steelers WRs. Jackson is the same way, his IAY/PA is only 6.5 but his WRs are getting open substantially more. It's also true with Burrow, he's also at 6.5 IAY/PA.

They are having Fields playing safe with his pass attempts, but the terrible separation his WRs are getting is because their WRs suck, not because of the playcalling.

 

[xlm34]

This has Tomlin written all over it.

Yes, Smith wants to run the ball a lot, but when he was the OC in Tennessee, they got chunk plays when they did pass. They were 6th in NY/A in 2020 and 2019. They are 21st so far this year.

Some of it can certainly be attributed to the Steelers WRs outside of Pickens not being very good, but I think it's mostly that Tomlin is crazy risk adverse to begin with and it's made even worse by not trusting Fields.

If you add in two plays that got called back (Pickens OPI and the Pickens catch that got called back for holding), the NY/A is top 10 in the league.

I get that this sample size is all we’ve got to go on, but it’s small enough that one or two plays can drastically change things.

 

[WickedWrister]

Kind of a misleading stat.

If your passes are mostly within three to five yards from the line of scrimmage how much separation can you expect?

Yeah as @Empoleon8771 points out, I'm not sure there is as much of a correlation between average depth of target/air yards and receiver separation as you'd think.

Mahomes and Rodgers for example are throwing even shorter distances than Fields in terms of air yards.

 

[pistolpete11]

If you add in two plays that got called back (Pickens OPI and the Pickens catch that got called back for holding), the NY/A is top 10 in the league.

I get that this sample size is all we’ve got to go on, but it’s small enough that one or two plays can drastically change things.

I imagine the Steelers aren't the only team that have had plays reversed due to penalties. We'll see. Proof will be in the pudding.

 

[Ryder71]

If you add in two plays that got called back (Pickens OPI and the Pickens catch that got called back for holding), the NY/A is top 10 in the league.

I get that this sample size is all we’ve got to go on, but it’s small enough that one or two plays can drastically change things.

This is how I view it as well. Those throws were perfect! If those were added it would only enhance his performances on the stat sheet. One call was abysmal, the other very ticky tacky. In any case the difference between an Arthur Smith run offense and a Matt Canada run offense is stark! They're still gonna play a conservative brand of football, but now they got a guy who can throw the deep ball with some precision. And he's doing it with a subpar WR room, in a new system with a banged up OL.

 

[T1K]

Why blame Boomers for Tomlin?

We are not perfect but we also are not the cause of everything wrong in the world. Tomlin can do dumb things on his own without our help.

If Wilson would simply make his coffee at home instead of going to Starbucks every morning he’d be playing.

 

[T1K]

"Forced to pass" is part of the Tomlinball that I'm railing against, but more importantly it's the type of passes they are throwing. I'm fine being a run heavy offense that picks up big chunks in the passing game. It's the 49ers blueprint and it's what Smith did in Tennessee. It's a feasible way to score points.

However, that is not really what we are getting. It's been marginally better with Smith/Fields than Canada/Pickett, but the results are essentially the same to this point.

I don’t mind the approach they’ve taken so far as it’s a small sample and they were figuring out what their offense is. I’m disappointed in the rushing efficiency the most, but I’m optimistic they can turn that around with time. I feel like this offense is much better than Canada/Pickett, so many 3 & outs with the old regime. This week is a big test for them to show their potential as the Colts defense is pretty bad.