OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[Peat]

"His defenders will tell you the Steelers have actually overachieved this year, that Tomlin’s brilliance is why we should be extremely proud of the 10 wins the Steelers have and no other coach in the NFL could have pulled off what he did. Of course, those same defenders three weeks ago were proclaiming the Steelers the best team in the AFC and the most dangerous team in the playoff field."


This is the truest of truths in this article.

We can wait and see on where this team is because he has time to rescue some stuff but right now, the repetition of previous seasons' problems is tough to take.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

"His defenders will tell you the Steelers have actually overachieved this year, that Tomlin’s brilliance is why we should be extremely proud of the 10 wins the Steelers have and no other coach in the NFL could have pulled off what he did. Of course, those same defenders three weeks ago were proclaiming the Steelers the best team in the AFC and the most dangerous team in the playoff field."


This is the truest of truths in this article.

We can wait and see on where this team is because he has time to rescue some stuff but right now, the repetition of previous seasons' problems is tough to take.

Both of these sides of the story can be true (to degrees). Indeed, I believe they are.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

"His defenders will tell you the Steelers have actually overachieved this year, that Tomlin’s brilliance is why we should be extremely proud of the 10 wins the Steelers have and no other coach in the NFL could have pulled off what he did. Of course, those same defenders three weeks ago were proclaiming the Steelers the best team in the AFC and the most dangerous team in the playoff field."


This is the truest of truths in this article.

We can wait and see on where this team is because he has time to rescue some stuff but right now, the repetition of previous seasons' problems is tough to take.

Mediocre Mike has been the coach for 18 seasons now I think. Think about Noll's first 18 years and Cowher's 16 years or however long it was he was coach...so much success from those two guys. Cowher's knock was he couldn't win the AFC championship game but most of the time was always in the hunt. I think Cowher lost 3 or 4 but won 2 right? Tomlin has been to 2...won one and lost the other over 18 years not to mention the fact that the Steelers haven't won a playoff game in 8 years.

I would kill to lose a bunch of AFCCG's at this point

 

[bigdaddyk88]

To be fair, the problem is bigger than Tomlin. It's Art.

If Art could go back in a time machine and fire Tomlin and hire Reid (for less) he still wouldn't do it.

Being a "champion" has a different meaning to him than you and me.

********************

Also I heard this

Cowher and Pete Carroll were on nfl channel on xm radio the other day. They mentioned this specifically said you can be true to your team identity and culture but you have to break tendency in the playoffs … you can do both.

Reid didn’t become champion until he got Maholmes.
I am all for trading tomlin and hiring the oc in Tampa or johnson in Detroit but it’s still a ceiling on the team without a top 10!Qb

 

[xlm34]

I don’t think this team is overachieving but I also don’t think they’re underachieving. Their record is an accurate reflection of what their team is. They’re a playoff team that would have a chance at beating the Texans, Chargers, or Broncos but can’t hang with the real contenders right now.

People overreacted when this team got to beat up on the Raiders, Jets, and Giants and now are gonna overreact when they get beat up by Super Bowl contenders in an 11 day stretch.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

There’s 2 tiers in the playoffs KC Buffalo and Bmore are sb or bust. Steelers Texans Chargers and whoever gets the 7th seed are 1 win and out
In the nfc it’s Philly Detroit as sb or bust
We are 2 more drafts away from sb or bust but another offseason away from AFC champ contender

 

[pistolpete11]

I don’t think this team is overachieving but I also don’t think they’re underachieving. Their record is an accurate reflection of what their team is. They’re a playoff team that would have a chance at beating the Texans, Chargers, or Broncos but can’t hang with the real contenders right now.

People overreacted when this team got to beat up on the Raiders, Jets, and Giants and now are gonna overreact when they get beat up by Super Bowl contenders in an 11 day stretch.

This was always going to be a tough stretch and 3 losses was a real possibility.

Getting blown out by multiple TDs in all of them is something different.

 

[Peat]

Both of these sides of the story can be true (to degrees). Indeed, I believe they are.

I struggle to see how both can be true. How this can be one of the strongest teams around but overachieving thanks to the coach.

I don’t think this team is overachieving but I also don’t think they’re underachieving. Their record is an accurate reflection of what their team is. They’re a playoff team that would have a chance at beating the Texans, Chargers, or Broncos but can’t hang with the real contenders right now.

People overreacted when this team got to beat up on the Raiders, Jets, and Giants and now are gonna overreact when they get beat up by Super Bowl contenders in an 11 day stretch.

.This seems roughly fair.

The problem is the team does a good impression of being unaware that they are where they are, and it's hard to see what the plan to get there is.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I struggle to see how both can be true. How this can be one of the strongest teams around but overachieving thanks to the coach.



.This seems roughly fair.

The problem is the team does a good impression of being unaware that they are where they are, and it's hard to see what the plan to get there is.

Who says this is one of the strongest teams around

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Reid didn’t become champion until he got Maholmes.
I am all for trading tomlin and hiring the oc in Tampa or johnson in Detroit but it’s still a ceiling on the team without a top 10!Qb

Who had the balls to draft Mahommes even though they had a decent QB in A Smith?

Would the Steelers ever take away resources from their precious defense to draft a good QB?
We all know the answer.

 

[Peat]

Who says this is one of the strongest teams around

Quite a lot of people were saying it two weeks ago. A lot of people were saying the Steelers were legit contenders.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Who had the balls to draft Mahommes even though they had a decent QB in A Smith?

Would the Steelers ever take away resources from their precious defense to draft a good QB?
We all know the answer.

Okay but Maholmes was the 3rd Qb taken in that draft and even Shanahan who had a top 5 pick said he didn’t scout him because he thought for sure he was signing Cousins in FA. It was a great trade up by the chiefs just like the bills trade for Allen. You have to have great scouting and luck because if a team thinks you’re trading up for a Qb you pay multiple 1sts do it
I think they go RW on a cheap deal for 2 years go 2 playmakers on offense 1 big time free agent Wr and then draft another wr and te. Draft some DL and Cb depth and then go big on a Qb in 26 to sit behind RW

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Quite a lot of people were saying it two weeks ago. A lot of people were saying the Steelers were legit contenders.

Legit contenders to win a sb no way. I think people got carried away with the 10-3 record and the playoff team’s we had beat but we hadn’t played a sb contender.
Can things change a little in the playoffs sure. Will they target GP 15 times and throw it early to break tendencies. Will they get healthy on defense and get the turnovers they have not gotten in this stretch who knows

 

[pistolpete11]

.This seems roughly fair.

The problem is the team does a good impression of being unaware that they are where they are, and it's hard to see what the plan to get there is.

I'm going to disagree on the lack of a plan. I think Khan's first couple of free agencies and drafts shows that he wants to build from the inside out which I 1000% agree with. He knows that they need playmakers now which is why he went so hard after Aiyuk, Adams, etc.

Where the QB of the future will come from is unknown, but even using hindsight, I don't think he missed out on anyone that was reasonably available to them with the exception of Darnold.

I'm much more concerned about if the coaching staff has what it takes to get them there once they have the roster mostly intact (as far as an NFL roster can be intact). Given how the defense gets lit up every time they play a half decent QB even after all the picks and money they've invested into it....I've got serious doubts.

 

[cookthebooks]

i cannot get over how completely disorganized the defense looks at least one out of every three plays

 

[Peat]

I'm going to disagree on the lack of a plan. I think Khan's first couple of free agencies and drafts shows that he wants to build from the inside out which I 1000% agree with. He knows that they need playmakers now which is why he went so hard after Aiyuk, Adams, etc.

Where the QB of the future will come from is unknown, but even using hindsight, I don't think he missed out on anyone that was reasonably available to them with the exception of Darnold.

I'm much more concerned about if the coaching staff has what it takes to get them there once they have the roster mostly intact (as far as an NFL roster can be intact). Given how the defense gets lit up every time they play a half decent QB even after all the picks and money they've invested into it....I've got serious doubts.

I think there's a plan in terms of the style of play the team wants.

Where my doubts come up is there seems to be a prevarication on whether they're going for it or building for the future. Take the Aiyuk pursuit. That feels very win now. But it felt kind of half-hearted. Lowball offer to the 49ers, lowball offer to Aiyuk (per Breer - that's the bit that really shook me). Or the Wilson move, which was very much sold as win now, got to see if there's a window there.

We'll see how it plays out this off-season.

There are some real questions about the coaching too.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Okay but Maholmes was the 3rd Qb taken in that draft and even Shanahan who had a top 5 pick said he didn’t scout him because he thought for sure he was signing Cousins in FA. It was a great trade up by the chiefs just like the bills trade for Allen. You have to have great scouting and luck because if a team thinks you’re trading up for a Qb you pay multiple 1sts do it
I think they go RW on a cheap deal for 2 years go 2 playmakers on offense 1 big time free agent Wr and then draft another wr and te. Draft some DL and Cb depth and then go big on a Qb in 26 to sit behind RW

If Mahommes and Watt were both sitting there at pick 30, it would not surprise me if Tomlin would still make Watt the pick. He values defense yet his very defense gets thrashed against good teams.

But again you're misunderstanding. This team would never pick a QB in the 1st round the season after making the 2nd round of the playoffs. I'll bet my life on it.

That's what makes Reid a good coach: he risks, but sometimes fails. But if you don't risk you don't get championships.
Tomlin never risks anything and is mired in mediocrity. It's not a coincidence. It's a way of life for him and Art. And he'll never win a SB. Just like Torts will never sniff another Stanley Cup

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I'm going to disagree on the lack of a plan. I think Khan's first couple of free agencies and drafts shows that he wants to build from the inside out which I 1000% agree with. He knows that they need playmakers now which is why he went so hard after Aiyuk, Adams, etc.

Where the QB of the future will come from is unknown, but even using hindsight, I don't think he missed out on anyone that was reasonably available to them with the exception of Darnold.

I'm much more concerned about if the coaching staff has what it takes to get them there once they have the roster mostly intact (as far as an NFL roster can be intact). Given how the defense gets lit up every time they play a half decent QB even after all the picks and money they've invested into it....I've got serious doubts.

Fully agree.
Khan is finally starting to grab the right ingredients.
They hired an OC who seems to be doing what they want. But we're discovering he's limited, but Tomlin already knew this and that is exactly why he was hired.

But man, the defense is atrocious. Full health, lots of injuries, reg season, playoffs. It doesn't matter. This billion dollar defense should be performing better. Tomlin has all the players he wanted (after all he's been here for about 20 years). But he STILL can't get this unit consistent.

Austin will again be the scapegoat. Just like Keith Butler was before him.
We all know it's Tomlin's defense yet he escapes accountability for the billionth time. Great gig if you can get it. But man it's infuriating to see incompetence not get called out and worse yet, it gets rewarded with a 3 year extension.

And we see some people who are Tomlin dick riders at every opportunity. No different than Mike Sullivan

 

[xlm34]

I struggle to see how both can be true. How this can be one of the strongest teams around but overachieving thanks to the coach.



.This seems roughly fair.

The problem is the team does a good impression of being unaware that they are where they are, and it's hard to see what the plan to get there is.

They just seem so risk averse. A cheap QB room is as good of time as any to splash some cash around at areas you need. And I guess they got Queen on a team friendly deal, but outside of that decided not to do much at CB or WR. And lo and behold both of those decisions are coming back to bite them.

Eventually you’re gonna have to get a little ballsy to break out of the position they’re in.

 

[Andy99]

As MM said today and I hate to quote him but it’s true…Steelers have both drafted poorly and are poorly coached…it can be both lol

“This is the fourth time in the past six years that the Steelers have lost three straight in December.

It’s the fifth time in the past seven years that the Steelers have lost three straight after Thanksgiving.

That’s because other teams improve over the course of a season. The Steelers don’t.

That’s because Mike Tomlin has no nuance to his coaching. The Steelers just show up, play like the Steelers and hope that’s good enough.”

Mark Madden: No surprise that flawed roster, poor coaching led to Steelers' collapse

This column will be all over the place. Because the Steelers are all over the place. From 10-3 to 10-6. From AFC North front-runner in line for a playoff home game to hitting the road for the wild-card round. From “a legit Super Bowl contender that can beat anybody” to

triblive.com

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

They just seem so risk averse. A cheap QB room is as good of time as any to splash some cash around at areas you need. And I guess they got Queen on a team friendly deal, but outside of that decided not to do much at CB or WR. And lo and behold both of those decisions are coming back to bite them.

Eventually you’re gonna have to get a little ballsy to break out of the position they’re in.

How much more $$ and draft capital are you going to continue to throw at a unit that gives up 30 plus points every playoff game?

At some point the offense needs to get theirs and they need to skimp on some defensive units. There's a cap after all.

But if a driver can't win with a Ferrari, do you think he'll be able to win with a Corvette (or insert any lesser car)?

 

[ChaosAgent]

How much more $$ and draft capital are you going to continue to throw at a unit that gives up 30 plus points every playoff game?

At some point the offense needs to get theirs and they need to skimp on some defensive units. There's a cap after all.

But if a driver can't win with a Ferrari, do you think he'll be able to win with a Corvette (or insert any lesser car)?

Tomlin' incompetence with defensive scheming should be grounds for termination. He hoards all the nice toys and expensive players for that side of the ball, then watches it get ripped to shreds against any half decent QB every single week.

Tomlin is a cheerleader but useless tactically.

 

[xlm34]

How much more $$ and draft capital are you going to continue to throw at a unit that gives up 30 plus points every playoff game?

At some point the offense needs to get theirs and they need to skimp on some defensive units. There's a cap after all.

But if a driver can't win with a Ferrari, do you think he'll be able to win with a Corvette (or insert any lesser car)?

I never said don’t spend on offense. Let’s not forget that a big part of why their offense is cheap is because it has a bunch of guys on rookie deal and Wilson is being paid by the Broncos. They’ve spent a lot of draft capital on it recently.

And I will say again for the 500th time it doesn’t matter how many All-pros you have on defense if you also have several liabilities. So yeah you may not like but they’re going to have spend some draft capital on the secondary.

 

[Peat]

They just seem so risk averse. A cheap QB room is as good of time as any to splash some cash around at areas you need. And I guess they got Queen on a team friendly deal, but outside of that decided not to do much at CB or WR. And lo and behold both of those decisions are coming back to bite them.

Eventually you’re gonna have to get a little ballsy to break out of the position they’re in.

Yeah

And given how a big swing can easily go hella wrong, I don't blame them for being patient to a point.

But at some point, as you say, they got to get ballsy.

I never said don’t spend on offense. Let’s not forget that a big part of why their offense is cheap is because it has a bunch of guys on rookie deal and Wilson is being paid by the Broncos. They’ve spent a lot of draft capital on it recently.

And I will say again for the 500th time it doesn’t matter how many All-pros you have on defense if you also have several liabilities. So yeah you may not like but they’re going to have spend some draft capital on the secondary.

Not like they have many draft needs on offence after WR and RB if you think this isn't a QB draft either.

 

[xlm34]

Yeah

And given how a big swing can easily go hella wrong, I don't blame them for being patient to a point.

But at some point, as you say, they got to get ballsy.



Not like they have many draft needs on offence after WR and RB if you think this isn't a QB draft either.

Yeah and I’m not opposed to double dipping at WR but I’d like to see them go after an established guy and not rely on a rookie to solve the problem. Someone like Metcalf or Higgins.

But if you look at the offense:

QB: Wilson
RB: Draft/Warren
WR: Pickens, Vet, Austin, Wilson, rookie/whoever
LT: Fautanu/Jones
LG: Seumalo
C: Frazier
RG: McCormick/FA
RT: Jones

Yup not seeing a ton of changes happening there and certainly not enough spots to justify spending every resource they have on offense.