OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

[cookthebooks]

It's difficult to say which is more annoying this morning - the ghastly in-game coaching decisions last night or the absolute f'ing glee people have rushing to trash the team and make them out to be garbage. Maybe it's a tie.

i am so guilty of this. i think relentless mediocrity really triggers me and makes me lose my mind a bit

 

[MrBrightside]

i am so guilty of this. i think relentless mediocrity really triggers me and makes me lose my mind a bit

I get it. Last night was a game they absolutely shouldn't have lost and they have 1-3 of these every year and they are annoying as hell. But man reading these comments you'd think they are 1-10 or something.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

They remade Cruel Intentions? Why

Bc it was a great movie with soft core lesbian love

Okay serious question: what are the Browns doing? Take a knee, run out the clock and kick a 20 yard field goal to win the game.

I wouldn't have. FG in this type of weather isn't a gimme.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I get it. Last night was a game they absolutely shouldn't have lost and they have 1-3 of these every year and they are annoying as hell. But man reading these comments you'd think they are 1-10 or something.

I figured they would lose Tomlin sucks on Thursday night and it was Cleveland Super Bowl

 

[cookthebooks]

I get it. Last night was a game they absolutely shouldn't have lost and they have 1-3 of these every year and they are annoying as hell. But man reading these comments you'd think they are 1-10 or something.

yup you are exactly right. its just the pull from 8-2 to 10-7 driving me mad

 

[pistolpete11]

Some real questionable coaching in this one if you ask me.

The 58 yard FG in those conditions was dumb.

I think going for it on the 4th downs were OK, but the play calls were not. They want to be this smashmouth, we-don't-care-if-you-know-it's-coming-try-to-stop-us team, but they simply aren't that good. Najee was bottled up most of the game. You bring Fields in on 4th and short, everyone and their mother knows what's coming. Even Warren, he played well overall, but I've still got questions how much is him being that good and how much is picking up yards because the other team isn't as focused on him. Just absolutely zero creativity or misdirection. The Browns don't have a good run defense, but when an NFL team knows what's coming and sells out to stop it, it's real hard to beat. The Steelers just ran head first into the wall, though. Really dumb.

Throwing a fade to your 3rd string RB on the 2-point conversion.

Wasted 2 timeouts in the second half.

Watt has been really quiet the last few games. I really wish they'd move him around some. Again, it comes back to predictability. Teams spend all week gameplanning how to stop him. That becomes a lot easier to do when you know exactly where he's going to be at all times.

Thought Russ played well for the most part, though. The fumble hurt, but he spread the ball around and hit a lot of different guys for big gains. Still no Williams, though. Really don't understand why they can't get him at least a few targets a game.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This game really just comes down to a "you can't win them all" feeling for me. It was a primetime away game in horrid conditions that they lost by a single score. Were there mistakes made by the team? Of course, but sometimes these kind of games happen. It just sucks it was to the Browns.

I thought Wilson had a very good game but that was about it. I'm still waiting on Minkah to do anything to suggest that he's still one of the top safeties in the game, but it really seems like he just isn't that anymore.

 

[Peat]

I'm still waiting on Minkah to do anything to suggest that he's still one of the top safeties in the game, but it really seems like he just isn't that anymore.

I think Fitzpatrick not making splash plays is a mix of scheme and QBs avoiding him. It's not like we're seeing him go up for them and miss them, or failing to make a play in tight coverage. He's just usually nowhere near the ball, even when officially targeted, and that to me suggests scheme. It feels like he's always stuck up high as the safety net for when other players fail rather than being allowed to roam and surprise guys. He and DeShon Elliott aren't rotating, it's Elliott playing in the box nearly all the time.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Some real questionable coaching in this one if you ask me.

The 58 yard FG in those conditions was dumb.

I think going for it on the 4th downs were OK, but the play calls were not. They want to be this smashmouth, we-don't-care-if-you-know-it's-coming-try-to-stop-us team, but they simply aren't that good. Najee was bottled up most of the game. You bring Fields in on 4th and short, everyone and their mother knows what's coming. Even Warren, he played well overall, but I've still got questions how much is him being that good and how much is picking up yards because the other team isn't as focused on him. Just absolutely zero creativity or misdirection. The Browns don't have a good run defense, but when an NFL team knows what's coming and sells out to stop it, it's real hard to beat. The Steelers just ran head first into the wall, though. Really dumb.

Throwing a fade to your 3rd string RB on the 2-point conversion.

Wasted 2 timeouts in the second half.

Watt has been really quiet the last few games. I really wish they'd move him around some. Again, it comes back to predictability. Teams spend all week gameplanning how to stop him. That becomes a lot easier to do when you know exactly where he's going to be at all times.

Thought Russ played well for the most part, though. The fumble hurt, but he spread the ball around and hit a lot of different guys for big gains. Still no Williams, though. Really don't understand why they can't get him at least a few targets a game.

Remember that Tomlin decided AGAINST an equally long FG vs Indy in a dome. He has no plan...he goes by his gut. Ridiculous

Game on the line after a huge INT; 3rd and 4 and you take Wilson out of the game who has been throwing dimes all night in a blizzard so that…

your backup QB who hasn’t thrown a game pass in 5 weeks can launch one downfield even though we have 3 years of tape that shows he sucks balls as EXACTLY THAT.

Canada has met his match in Arthur “FedEx” Smith.

 

[Peat]

Also re Wilson... he did a lot of good things, but I'm interested in a breakdown of his game. I'm looking at how the drives died -

1st drive - Wilson holds onto the ball for 3 seconds and the offensive line can't hang on for that long so he gets sacked.

2nd drive - Team calls 2 runs for 4 yards, then after Wilson doesn't convert 3rd and 6th they put Fields in for 4th and short and he gets caught.

3rd drive - Team loses -3 yards on a run, then gives Wilson the ball twice and he can only find RB checkdowns. On the 3rd down, I think he's got the ball for about 4 seconds before he gives it to Warren.

4th drive - Wilson fumbles.

5th drive - 40 second drill, Wilson ends is sacked by Garrett

6th drive - Teams calls 2 runs for 3 yards, Wilson gets 6 yards on 3rd down with a RB checkdown after about another 4 seconds, team calls a run to Warren on 4th down and get stuffed.

7th drive - Frazier high snap loses 7 yards on 3rd down, Wilson can only find Pickens who's well short of the sticks and can't turn and go up field because the CB is on him by the time he gets it

8th drive - Touchdown yay.

9th drive - Short field touchdown yay.

10th drive - Two Harris runs then the Fields pass

11th drive - 57 second drill, ends with the aborted Hail Mary

Remove the two time sensitive drives and out of the 9 drives, I think there's some big questions on why Wilson can't find receivers at times and why we're targeting WRs who are covered and short of the sticks on 3rd down again. That could be mostly scheme but whatever it was, the combination was struggling to sustain drives last night. That 8th drive featured 3 Browns penalties (and the Fields run if that matters) and I'm not sure it happens without those penalties.

It feels picky on a night when Wilson generally threw really well in bad conditions, but it's like Fields at the start of the season - the passes he's not making are killing the team too often. Question is whether Wilson missed the passes or they're just not there.

edit: The part of this where the RBs are meant to make the trains run on time and handle a lot of bringing up 3rd and short but aren't also needs emphasizing too.

 

[pistolpete11]

Remember that Tomlin decided AGAINST an equally long FG vs Indy in a dome. He has no plan...he goes by his gut. Ridiculous

Game on the line after a huge INT; 3rd and 4 and you take Wilson out of the game who has been throwing dimes all night in a blizzard so that…

your backup QB who hasn’t thrown a game pass in 5 weeks can launch one downfield even though we have 3 years of tape that shows he sucks balls as EXACTLY THAT.

Canada has met his match in Arthur “FedEx” Smith.

Given the game situation, I thought the Fields pass was dumb. I was OK with the one earlier in the game (the one that ended in roughing the passer) because if you are going to use Fields, you need to establish he's a threat to throw the ball, too. As I said, if you just bring him in to run the wild cat, teams are going to sell out to stop it.

Late in the 4th with a lead in a snow storm, though, is not the time to establish that. Of all times to just run the ball and punt and that's when they decided to take a shot If you get a 15 yard punt, it probably doesn't matter anyway, but still doesn't make it the right decision. And I agree, if you are going to pass there, Wilson was playing well.

The 4th downs, though, I could easily see that being a Tomlin directive to run the ball.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Given the game situation, I thought the Fields pass was dumb. I was OK with the one earlier in the game (the one that ended in roughing the passer) because if you are going to use Fields, you need to establish he's a threat to throw the ball, too. As I said, if you just bring him in to run the wild cat, teams are going to sell out to stop it.

Late in the 4th with a lead in a snow storm, though, is not the time to establish that. Of all times to just run the ball and punt and that's when they decided to take a shot If you get a 15 yard punt, it probably doesn't matter anyway, but still doesn't make it the right decision. And I agree, if you are going to pass there, Wilson was playing well.

The 4th downs, though, I could easily see that being a Tomlin directive to run the ball.

I've got no issues with the short yardage packages for Fields.

What I have issue with is how they use this alignment:

- Always a shotgun snap bc Fields sucks under center
-Always with a big formation
-Always with a dedicated run or pass. No RPO

They can't go away from SG bc of Fields so I'd propose they go 3 or 4 wide- spread the defense out then left Fields run because he has natural lanes due to the defense having to put defenders outside of the box. Then add onto this with RPO stuff.

Their current approach is moronic

 

[xlm34]

Also re Wilson... he did a lot of good things, but I'm interested in a breakdown of his game. I'm looking at how the drives died -

1st drive - Wilson holds onto the ball for 3 seconds and the offensive line can't hang on for that long so he gets sacked.

2nd drive - Team calls 2 runs for 4 yards, then after Wilson doesn't convert 3rd and 6th they put Fields in for 4th and short and he gets caught.

3rd drive - Team loses -3 yards on a run, then gives Wilson the ball twice and he can only find RB checkdowns. On the 3rd down, I think he's got the ball for about 4 seconds before he gives it to Warren.

4th drive - Wilson fumbles.

5th drive - 40 second drill, Wilson ends is sacked by Garrett

6th drive - Teams calls 2 runs for 3 yards, Wilson gets 6 yards on 3rd down with a RB checkdown after about another 4 seconds, team calls a run to Warren on 4th down and get stuffed.

7th drive - Frazier high snap loses 7 yards on 3rd down, Wilson can only find Pickens who's well short of the sticks and can't turn and go up field because the CB is on him by the time he gets it

8th drive - Touchdown yay.

9th drive - Short field touchdown yay.

10th drive - Two Harris runs then the Fields pass

11th drive - 57 second drill, ends with the aborted Hail Mary

Remove the two time sensitive drives and out of the 9 drives, I think there's some big questions on why Wilson can't find receivers at times and why we're targeting WRs who are covered and short of the sticks on 3rd down again. That could be mostly scheme but whatever it was, the combination was struggling to sustain drives last night. That 8th drive featured 3 Browns penalties (and the Fields run if that matters) and I'm not sure it happens without those penalties.

It feels picky on a night when Wilson generally threw really well in bad conditions, but it's like Fields at the start of the season - the passes he's not making are killing the team too often. Question is whether Wilson missed the passes or they're just not there.

I feel like we had more of an Arthur Smith problem yesterday than a Wilson one. I thought Wilson played well enough even though I don’t know if he played quite as well as his stat line. The only major gaffes I can think of were the sack to take them out of field goal range, the fumble, and the decision to not throw to a wide open Freiermuth. I guess nitpicky would be under throwing Austin a bit, but that was a tough throw with a guy in his face.

Smith though - not sure what he was doing half the time with the play calling.

 

[Khelandros]

Some real questionable coaching in this one if you ask me.

The 58 yard FG in those conditions was dumb.

In all fairness, the kick had the legs to make it, it was just a little wide to the right.

 

[pistolpete11]

I've got no issues with the short yardage packages for Fields.

What I have issue with is how they use this alignment:

- Always a shotgun snap bc Fields sucks under center
-Always with a big formation
-Always with a dedicated run or pass. No RPO

They can't go away from SG bc of Fields so I'd propose they go 3 or 4 wide- spread the defense out then left Fields run because he has natural lanes due to the defense having to put defenders outside of the box. Then add onto this with RPO stuff.

Their current approach is moronic

That would be fine sometimes, too. It all goes back to predictability. Go ahead, use him in the big formation sometimes, but hit Pickens from time to time. Or sneak one of the TE's out of the formation for a pass.

 

[Peat]

I feel like we had more of an Arthur Smith problem yesterday than a Wilson one. I thought Wilson played well enough even though I don’t know if he played quite as well as his stat line. The only major gaffes I can think of were the sack to take them out of field goal range, the fumble, and the decision to not throw to a wide open Freiermuth. I guess nitpicky would be under throwing Austin a bit, but that was a tough throw with a guy in his face.

Smith though - not sure what he was doing half the time with the play calling.

I am super down for putting the main blame for that Browns loss on the coaching (along with the schedule) but I still feel like there's a question that involves Wilson on how those drives stalled and I don't think I can put it solely on Smith. It's also a question that I started having after the Ravens game and I've got a nasty feeling it might be asked again after the Bengals.

And now, I'm not seeing major gaffes from Wilson. But then I didn't see major gaffes from Fields either when I was making the same criticism of him. And while the fact I've got the same criticism of both QBs points to there being major problems with the team, I think it also maybe points to why not a lot of teams wanted either guy as a starter last year.

Maybe he fixes it and I go "okay, too early, just tough games". But maybe he doesn't.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I feel like we had more of an Arthur Smith problem yesterday than a Wilson one. I thought Wilson played well enough even though I don’t know if he played quite as well as his stat line. The only major gaffes I can think of were the sack to take them out of field goal range, the fumble, and the decision to not throw to a wide open Freiermuth. I guess nitpicky would be under throwing Austin a bit, but that was a tough throw with a guy in his face.

Smith though - not sure what he was doing half the time with the play calling.

Everyone involved is a problem. Tomlin, Smith, Wilson, Fields, it doesn’t matter.

Sure, Tomlin and Smith are the biggest problems. I won’t deny that but everyone on offense had a hand in that loss last night.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Everyone involved is a problem. Tomlin, Smith, Wilson, Fields, it doesn’t matter.

Sure, Tomlin and Smith are the biggest problems. I won’t deny that but everyone on offense had a hand in that loss last night.

Khan as well because Williams is awol as the wr 2

 

[ImporterExporter]

We know Mike.

 

[Khelandros]

Khan as well because Williams is awol as the wr 2

Williams is injured and dealing with something, apparently.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Williams is injured and dealing with something, apparently.

He was still working through ACL recovery when we traded for him