The Pierre Turgeon Trade

[HuGort]

What I remember is that it was literally unimaginable for the Habs to be out of the playoffs. It had not happened in my lifetime. The Habs were in the playoffs every year. Therefore, it was taken as a given, both by fans and management. The trade made sense in that context. Turgeon was seen as player who performed well in the regular season but who lacked playoff toughness/heart. Hence the “tin man”. While Corson was seen as a playoff beast. That was the main reason behind the trade it seemed to me. Turgeon’s 90+ pts were not revered in the way they would be today.

Maybe so, but could have got decent reurn. How you going to replace his 100 points?

 

[BLONG7]

Rejean Houle was the GM. He's by all accounts a nice guy. But he had no business sense and couldn't make good deals. He traded Patrick Roy for Rucinksy, Kovalenko, and Thibault...

That's the main reason for the bad trade. But, there was also the fact that Turgeon was put at 3c behind Saku Koivu and Vinny Damphousse. It hurt his ego, just as Patrick Roy's ego was hurt by Mario Tremblay (the coach). Basically neither coach nor the GM knew how to handle superstar egos.

The second factor was that, actually at that time, we had to sell many players. There wasn't a cap and we weren't one of the teams that could spend a lot like the Rangers, Dallas Stars, Red Wings, etc... (if memory serves me correctly, I was in high school then)...

Those deals were based on money, and Corey being the master..............this was not on Houle, he did not even want the job.....poor guy was a total puppet.

 

[BLONG7]

Maybe so, but could have got decent reurn. How you going to replace his 100 points?

Habs were purging payroll, and had Ronald Corey at the helm............it was lose lose
They had had no clue what they were doing............it was like the Bergevin years, only Bergevin had money and support from ownership. Bergevin was just plain dumb. Bergevin spent 90M and we had the 32nd place team.....let that sink in....

 

[YukonCornelius 5thOA]

He was shortly after, then got injured.

Tied for league lead in scoring the night Jeff Shantz took his knee out. Such a dirty play even Recchi of all people got pissed and dropped the gloves. This was the cooler Recchi of the 90's, not the doctor most of you came to know too.

Edit: didn't see @Estimated_Prophet covered this perfectly on the previous page.

 

[26Mats]

Habs were purging payroll, and had Ronald Corey at the helm............it was lose lose
They had had no clue what they were doing............it was like the Bergevin years, only Bergevin had money and support from ownership. Bergevin was just plain dumb. Bergevin spent 90M and we had the 32nd place team.....let that sink in....

Wasn't Corey at the helmet when we won the cups in 86 and 93?

 

[Tyson]

Those deals were based on money, and Corey being the master..............this was not on Houle, he did not even want the job.....poor guy was a total puppet.

Houle was a beer executive for Molson. Corey panics at an 0-4 start, fires Demers and Savard and had no plan B. Many say Houle was the worst GM in Habs history and that is probably accurate but he had zero experience whereas Bergevin was working for the Hawks learning the ropes on becoming a GM.

The Turgeon trade was beyond stupid. Corson was well beyond his prime while Turgeon was about 27 at the time and could be counted on 90+ points per year. So many bad decisions in the mid 90's led us to decades of mediocre Habs management.

 

[Thierry]

Well... I understand that I brought pain with my thread and as a Blues fan, it doesn't look good since he was trade to us. But I swear I was genuinely curious!

Thanks a lot for all those answers. It brings a lot of insight.

 

[Tyson]

Well... I understand that I brought pain with my thread and as a Blues fan, it doesn't look good since he was trade to us. But I swear I was genuinely curious!

Thanks a lot for all those answers. It brings a lot of insight.

The only part of that trade that the Blues screwed up on was Houle asked the Blues GM which young D he wanted in the trade between David Wilkie, Craig Rivet or Rory Fitzpatrick. He obviously picked Fitzpatrick who I thought at the time would be a solid NHL Dman for years to come. Looking back the least desirable of the 3 was Rivet and he ended up having a solid career. I enjoy talking hockey history!

 

[SOLR]

The only part of that trade that the Blues screwed up on was Houle asked the Blues GM which young D he wanted in the trade between David Wilkie, Craig Rivet or Rory Fitzpatrick. He obviously picked Fitzpatrick who I thought at the time would be a solid NHL Dman for years to come. Looking back the least desirable of the 3 was Rivet and he ended up having a solid career. I enjoy talking hockey history!

I didn't remember there was a link between Turgeon and Maxpac.

 

[Not The One]

I absolutely, viscerally hated that trade. It wade no sense then and it makes no sense now.

Since Turgeon's one full season in 1995-96 not a single player has been close to getting 96 points here. Corson was bad in his return here but Baron was an absolute disaster. Zero offence AND zero defense.

The thinking at the time was that Turgeon was "soft" and the one thing real hockey fans hated more than "soft" players back then were soft frenchy players. So they moved Damphousse from winger to center and thought Koivu would be a superstar. Then they traded Damphousse for leftovers two years later and then Koivu got hurt.

Probably my most hated trade ever. Even the Roy trade was made more sense that this. They felt that bridges were burnt and they got a highly talented younger goalie plus two talented young forwards. In contrast they traded their most talented and offensive skater for an 30 year-old slow 2nd-3rd line winger and the slowest D in the league.

 

[CDN24]

This is a thread for the old-timers.

I was playing puckdoku when Pierre Turgeon's name popped up. And I thought to myself: "Oh yeah, that guy was pretty good, right?" So I looked him up on HockeyDB.

I noticed he had a killer year in Montreal (96 pts in 80 games) but he didn't stay long. I then saw what the trade was:

Pierre Turgeon
Craig Conroy
Rory Fitzpatrick

FOR

Murray Baron
Shayne Corson
5th round pick

True, that 5th pick became the legendary Gennady Razin, but still, I don't get it!

Craig Conroy went on to have a good career, but he was at the time of the trade, he was a 6th round pick with 13 games and 1 pt under his belt. Rory Fitzpatrick nothing special either, so they don't really count, I guess.

Corson was a decent player, sure, but was not showing great numbers before the trade with the Blues. And I don't know Baron enough but his number are underwhelming.

So it almost feels like a Turgeon VS Corson trade. I don't get it! Isn't Montreal one of the richer team, even at that time? I know there was no cap, but still... Was it a money problem? Turgeon is not known to have a personality issue...

I need you, Habs fans, to help me understand. And if you could tell me how you felt when it happened, I'd love a trip to memory lane.

Damphousse is also a weird one. He had two disappointed seasons in a row, but to only get a 2nd and a 5th for him? Again... I don't get it!

This is what happens when you put a glorified beer salesman in the GM role. Before they made him GM Houle was doing PR stuff for Molson Breweries.

As others have mentioned they wanted toughness with this move. Corson was worn out and beat up by that point- a shell of his former self. The Tremblay Houle Duo finished dismantling a cup winning team in a couple years.

Roy trade then this one. Tradded rechhi out for Zubrus

The Damphousse to SJ was as deadline sale I think. They got a 1st too in 2000 I think and used it to draft Marcel hossa. Drafting was as bad as the trading in those years

 

[salbutera]

Rejean Houle was the GM. He's by all accounts a nice guy. But he had no business sense and couldn't make good deals. He traded Patrick Roy for Rucinksy, Kovalenko, and Thibault...

That's the main reason for the bad trade. But, there was also the fact that Turgeon was put at 3c behind Saku Koivu and Vinny Damphousse. It hurt his ego, just as Patrick Roy's ego was hurt by Mario Tremblay (the coach). Basically neither coach nor the GM knew how to handle superstar egos.

The second factor was that, actually at that time, we had to sell many players. There wasn't a cap and we weren't one of the teams that could spend a lot like the Rangers, Dallas Stars, Red Wings, etc... (if memory serves me correctly, I was in high school then)...

The “cut spending” Habs era began w 1998-199 season, Molson Inc was bleeding red ink because of increased international competition and the heavy debt burden of Habs (exchange rate) + arena + taxation wasn’t helping matters.

Turgeon trade in 1996 did not incorporate a financial motive.

 

[BJCOLLINS]

Turgeon was an elite talent. When positioned properly he put up 132 points….good for 41st all time single season record. He was not a bum in the playoffs like some would lead you to believe…. 97 pts in 109 gms. just under ppg. He was not a tuff guy to be sure, but when you possess his vision there’s no need to drop the gloves. He was simply another of a long line of mismanaged assets.

 

[salbutera]

Habs were purging payroll, and had Ronald Corey at the helm............it was lose lose
They had had no clue what they were doing............it was like the Bergevin years, only Bergevin had money and support from ownership. Bergevin was just plain dumb. Bergevin spent 90M and we had the 32nd place team.....let that sink in....

When Molson Inc decided to cut payroll, Corey was pushed aside by Dan O’Neill (CEO) in 1998 who filled in for day-to-day functions as Habs President for 1-year but it was understood O’Neill would actually perform the role incognito and Corey would remain figurehead, while being dispatched as Molson’s Quebec regional President as his full time (golden parachute) job

It was O’Neill who sat at NHL Board of Governor meetings & set budget for 1998-1999 season, while trying to find a suitable replacement for Corey to assume Habs President role and finding a buyer for the Habs & arena and doing his full time job as Molson Inc CEO…. which ended with Boivin being name to Mtl Canadiens President role prior to start of 1999-2000 season.

It’s why Reggie Tremblay hated O’Neill so much…. a few years later one Bob Gainey picked up the phone and called O’Neill directly saying he was ready to return to hockey and would like Habs GM job…

O’Neill sat on the Habs board representing Molson’s minority share w Gillet now majority owner - O’Neill conveyed Gainey’s message to Gillet and Andre Savard was pushed aside after 2002-2003 season

 

[EXPOS123]

Turgeon is a player that looks better on paper than what he was and was not regarded as a franchise player, but more of an imposter. I think he received more hate than what he deserved and was still a very good player but Damphousse was better and Koivu was ready to ascend. It was poor value to target Corson and the trade was definitely dumb but it was very common and accepted knowledge that Koivu was going to push one of Damphousse or Turgeon out with Turgeon being the overwhelming favourite to go.

Koivu proved that he was the best of the three by leading the league in scoring through the first 30+ games of the season before suffering the knee injury that forever changed his career. For those that were too young to fully remember and understand the height of the Koivu hype before he even came over and the euphoria and excitement that he brought to begin the 96-97 season it will be hard to explain the Turgeon situation when they go back and look at the numbers. Koivu had clearly passed Turgeon and the Habs wanted to move Turgeon out before his value dipped due to playing 3C, unfortunately they hastily traded Turgeon without getting the value that they should have.

Good post.

The problem was not about trading Turgeon or not, it was about getting equal or better value back. You don’t trade 100 point centers just to get grit, let alone washed up ones.

It was an utterly terrible trade followed by many more made by our idiot management teams over the years

 

[BLONG7]

Wasn't Corey at the helmet when we won the cups in 86 and 93?

Serge Savard, was no puppet..................................poor Reggie was.

 

[YukonCornelius 5thOA]

Serge Savard, was no puppet..................................poor Reggie was.

He was no puppet for sure, and long past his best before date and needed to GTFO regardless of who they brought in. Luckiest GM of all time.

 

[salbutera]

Serge Savard, was no puppet..................................poor Reggie was.

Serge Savard also was GM in an era where players had zero autonomy and say in where they ended up..

Corey & Savard had to beg & plead Brian Bellows “to accept being dealt to Mtl with a guarantee he’d be dealt to any US destination he wished after 2-seasons” (Savard’s own words)

 

[CauZuki]

Corson was a consistent league leading goal scorer as a Hab....




















...In October

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

It was a bad trade made worse by Koivu's injuries and resulting inability to ever again play at the level he played at when the trade happened.

 

[Thierry]

Corson was a consistent league leading goal scorer as a Hab....

...In October

Don't you mean "Brian Savage" ?

 

[CauZuki]

Don't you mean "Brian Savage" ?

You are correct got my wires crossed , perhaps I tried too hard to forget those times as a Habs fan.

 

[Tyson]

I didn't remember there was a link between Turgeon and Maxpac.

Delete

 

[SOLR]

Delete

Why

 

[calder candidate]

We had Koivu and Damphousse and Turgeon didn’t grind…
It was just a horrible trade from day one…