Speculation: The Pierre Engvall Dilemma

[stickty111]

This thread is pretty funny tbh.

Engvall has clearly earned his spot on the roster and higher than the 4th line at that.

I think Keefe putting him on the 3rd line against a strong team in Montreal speaks volumes. All though Keefe scratches him at times, but it's clear Keefe sees him as a top 9 forward.
You don't put a guy you benched for stints but put him on the 3rd against a good team if you don't believe on him.

 

[Duke16]

What do waivers even matter? He deserves to be in the lineup.

Waive Vesey.

I'd waive Vesey before him for sure, but I could see both being on the outside of the optimal lineup, especially after the mystery forward is added.

The Engvall-Kerfoot-Mikheyev line is a nice mix for now and probably one of the better possible third line combos we can ice in general.

 

[zeke]

I'd waive Vesey before him for sure, but I could see both being on the outside of the optimal lineup, especially after the mystery forward is added.

The Engvall-Kerfoot-Mikheyev line is a nice mix for now and probably one of the better possible third line combos we can ice in general.

Even at full strength I have a hard time seeing him outside the top 12.

You'd really need a lot of faith in Boyd and Robertson (plus the old guys) to squeeze him out imo.

 

[zeke]

I think Keefe putting him on the 3rd line against a strong team in Montreal speaks volumes. All though Keefe scratches him at times, but it's clear Keefe sees him as a top 9 forward.
You don't put a guy you benched for stints but put him on the 3rd against a good team if you don't believe on him.

I think he was using the waivers thing to get a look at other guys but even the doubters should see that Engvall slotting ahead of vesey in practice today, heading into his final game of waivers eligibility, is a pretty clear sign that he's a keeper. At full strength, imo, the only real question is whether he slots in best as 3rd line W or 4th line C......though until simmonds comes back I don't really see engvall's top 9 slot threatened at all.

 

[stickty111]

I think he was using the waivers thing to get a look at other guys but even the doubters should see that Engvall slotting ahead of vesey in practice today, heading into his final game of waivers eligibility, is a pretty clear sign that he's a keeper. At full strength, imo, the only real question is whether he slots in best as 3rd line W or 4th line C......though until simmonds comes back I don't really see engvall's top 9 slot threatened at all.

Yeah he's a permanent player. I personally like him at 3rd line winger but the flexibility is nice.

 

[meefer]

Just over 50 games , tall, skates very well, exits are good, some defense skills, needs to work on face-offs and some more physical play would be nice, a keeper for now. I would like to see Mikky, Kerfoot and Engvall man the 3rd line for now, good speed, some size and breakout abilities...scoring, not so much.

Vesey, Barabanov (who I wish would voluntarily head back home, a trooper to be sure, just not skilled enough to my eyes) and Petan offer 4th line options.

 

[ACC1224]

Engvall isn’t really a player you arrive at some type of dilemma with. 3/4 line player that is decent enough to dress but once he leaves will be forgotten in 5 minutes.

 

[likecheese]

That line wasn't actually together. You might be thinking of the game Matthews missed, where the Mikheyev-Engvall-Simmonds line did a great job as 3rd line.

I must have dreamt it but I'm sure you're right, Engvall had a great game, third line had a great game, then it ended. Anyhoo, like this third line (Mik-Kerf-Eng) if they go with it, hope it gets all three of them going and Hyman gets Nyl/Tav going, the middle 6 needs a kick in the arse.

 

[OVO16]

Engvall is not a bad player at all. I'm a fan of his game, especially for the bottom 6.

Only thing I wished he did more of was be more Physical. The Dude clearly has the build for it

 

[IPS]

Engvall is not a bad player at all. I'm a fan of his game, especially for the bottom 6.

Only thing I wished he did more of was be more Physical. The Dude clearly has the build for it

If he played with some aggression he'd be a beauty. He also really needs to simplify his game, he's doing a lot of things with the puck that he did in the AHL that's clearly not working in the NHL.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I think Keefe putting him on the 3rd line against a strong team in Montreal speaks volumes. All though Keefe scratches him at times, but it's clear Keefe sees him as a top 9 forward.
You don't put a guy you benched for stints but put him on the 3rd against a good team if you don't believe on him.

I see this too, he is scratching him because Engvall has more to give and needs to be more consistent. He may very well be our 3rd line center very soon.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Engvall Boyd Spezza

Is a good 4th line IMO. Got no problem with the guy in the lineup every night.

 

[LeafGrief]

Only problem with Engvall is consistency. Out of the rando-salad that is our bottom six most nights, he makes the smartest passes. 15 foot saucer passes to spring guys alone or two on ones. He's one of those alluring guys who seems to have all the tools but just can't put it together. With a better drive train or some killer instinct he'd be an every day middle or top6 winger.

 

[TopCheese]

I’d like to see him at 3C for a few games with Mikheyev and simmonds / Robertson. Move kerfoot up to the Tavares line as a winger

 

[The Iceman]

Can't teach effort or grit and I think Engvall is a 75%er for effort. Too talented to slot outside the top 12.

I would like to see him used more on the PK and carve out a useful role with the team. In a perfect world centering the 4th line, increase his hits per game and improve his face off skills.

 

[Ciao]

I think Engvall makes it into the Leafs top 13 forwards, along with Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Kerfoot, Hyman, Simmonds, Mikheyev, Thornton, Spezza, Vesey and Robertson. Those are the players I think we would see regularly when healthy.

I think on any given night we could see any of Boyd, Anderson, Petan, Brooks, Barabanov, Sabourin and Agostino -- depending on what else is happening with injuries and cap space etc. -- and there isn't really a whole lot to choose between them.

The exception, of course, is Sabourin. He might be the only hammer in box full of wrenches and a few Phillips, flathead, and square head screwdrivers.

That said, it's not hard to imagine Vesey and/or Engvall getting thrown back in the toolbox in exchange for a couple of similar tools, but I don't see that happening.

 

[zeke]

I think Engvall makes it into the Leafs top 13 forwards, along with Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Kerfoot, Hyman, Simmonds, Mikheyev, Thornton, Spezza, Vesey and Robertson. Those are the players I think we would see regularly when healthy.

I think on any given night we could see any of Boyd, Anderson, Petan, Brooks, Barabanov, Sabourin and Agostino -- depending on what else is happening with injuries and cap space etc. -- and there isn't really a whole lot to choose between them.

The exception, of course, is Sabourin. He might be the only hammer in box full of wrenches and a few Phillips, flathead, and square head screwdrivers.

That said, it's not hard to imagine Vesey and/or Engvall getting thrown back in the toolbox in exchange for a couple of similar tools, but I don't see that happening.

Mostly agree....I just wouldn't include vesey in that first group.

And then on top of that I'm not sure we can rely on Robertson quite yet, while Thornton/Spezza will always be iffy going forward too.

 

[Ciao]

Mostly agree....I just wouldn't include vesey in that first group.

And then on top of that I'm not sure we can rely on Robertson quite yet, while Thornton/Spezza will always be iffy going forward too.

I'm not commenting in their relative abilities -- but just where I see the players fitting into the Leafs pecking order for this season.

Personally, I like Boyd, Petan and I'm fond of Brooks, but realistically I don't picture any of them knocking Thornton, Spezza, Vesey or Engvall out of the lineup unless there's an injury.

Another management group could easily take a different view of the roster. I just think this is probably the view the Leafs have.

 

[Nylander88]

The 3rd line we're icing tonight should help all 3 of those guys. All three can fly. The Engvall-Kerfoot-Mikheyev line has looked good when tried before. They've all struggled this year too. Hope it works out for them tonight. Kerfy with some twin towers lol

 

[meefer]

Mostly agree....I just wouldn't include vesey in that first group.

And then on top of that I'm not sure we can rely on Robertson quite yet, while Thornton/Spezza will always be iffy going forward too.

Nor can I, but I'd love to see him get a chance to prove me wrong. There's something about the kid I find intriguing. Obvious skill when shooting, but he's got that 'something' - not a f*ck you - but something that says he loves the game and I think that will translate well. As ridiculous as it sounds, he kinda reminds me of Spezza or Thornton, they love the game and they want to win. I see that in Robertson.

 

[zeke]

Nor can I, but I'd love to see him get a chance to prove me wrong. There's something about the kid I find intriguing. Obvious skill when shooting, but he's got that 'something' - not a f*ck you - but something that says he loves the game and I think that will translate well. As ridiculous as it sounds, he kinda reminds me of Spezza or Thornton, they love the game and they want to win. I see that in Robertson.

no doubt that the bottom 6 could use a bit more pure goalscoring ability, even though overall it is a pretty decent bottom 6 offensively.

 

[meefer]

no doubt that the bottom 6 could use a bit more pure goalscoring ability, even though overall it is a pretty decent bottom 6 offensively.

The thing about a bottom 6 that I believe is misunderstood is the fragility of them. You take one of them out due to injury and the cascade effect can be big. Regardless of how you apply your cap space, by the time you get to the bottom 6, you're making choices based on cap space. Take out one effective piece and you're dealing with a new dynamic based on lesser skills. Take any one of Tampa's 3rd liners out of the game (injury) and regardless, that line won't be as effective because the replacement won't be nearly as good. The Leaf's in losing 3 forwards have seen their lower 6 scrambling because of this ripple effect. Thankfully, we've done ok, and should soon see a better representation of what we are capable of achieving. I think we've just started to see what this team can do.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Only problem with Engvall is consistency. Out of the rando-salad that is our bottom six most nights, he makes the smartest passes. 15 foot saucer passes to spring guys alone or two on ones. He's one of those alluring guys who seems to have all the tools but just can't put it together. With a better drive train or some killer instinct he'd be an every day middle or top6 winger.

Yeah the part that drives me nuts with him is that he clearly has strong IQ/vision to go along with the physical package. He's much smarter offensively than Kapanen with similar skating/shooting, it seems like he's so close to putting it together and becoming a 20/20 3rd line anchor. He's also probably our 2nd best forechecker behind Hyman, he comes out with an absurd amount of pucks when his center decides to play "Pierre, go fetch" or he just dumps it to himself.

 

[IPS]

Yeah the part that drives me nuts with him is that he clearly has strong IQ/vision to go along with the physical package. He's much smarter offensively than Kapanen with similar skating/shooting, it seems like he's so close to putting it together and becoming a 20/20 3rd line anchor. He's also probably our 2nd best forechecker behind Hyman, he comes out with an absurd amount of pucks when his center decides to play "Pierre, go fetch" or he just dumps it to himself.

Pretty much where I'm at with him too. He'd be a monster if he could put it together.

 

[Eye of Ra]

4 goals in last 5 games.