The Penalty Kill

[dalem177]

Trying to explain the PK to a "I want to learn hockey" buddy. As part of my explanation I came up with the following:

ahh
then yes
explanation follows
there are, essentially, 2 styles of Penalty Kill in hockey
to review, that's when a team is up 5-4 or 5-3 or some-such
the defender can opt for 2 basic strategies:
1) stand like pylons and make the attacking team go around and then you try and get your sticks in the defined lanes to block.
2) you move and relatively aggressively "attack" the attackers and try and mess up their plans and shots.
I hate hate hate #1
in my experience it's way inferior to #2

To my primitive mind, I wonder why anyone would ever choose #1.

Please discuss, and please educate me.

Thanks!!!

 

[19 for president]

Neither strategy as described is usually effective. Strat 1 is basically take up space and hope and Strat 2 is pray we can skate faster then they can pass. Both can be exposed be a really good puck moving PP, which we did last year.

You have to combine them to be effective. Moving up high keeps pressure on the boards and points. Make them pass the puck before 1 timers can get off or block them if they do. Down low is mostly zone coverage and keeping sticks in lames but needs enough movement to keep guys honest. If you give up a back door/cross ice lane to say DBC and Kane, you are going to get scored on a lot. You have to be ready to pivot to the slot or net front guy.

You have to curtail it somewhat to each PP. Teams that gave us the point where largely more successful because we really don't have a point presence. You do that to those old Suter/Weber powerplays in Nashville and you are getting destroyed.

A lot of it comes down to knowing when to pinch at the point or boards. You cannot take yourself out of position and not get the puck. Guys like Z, Draper and Dats excelled at this. When they went they at worst created a 50/50 puck or more often got it cleared or came out with it.

Last year or defense was never able to mantain coverage of the zone down low (often failing to tie up the net front guy) and our forwards often did not win faceoffs and overcommitted thus leaving odd man chances. You have to play to your strengths. Lids could cover most of a d zone with his stick. Helm wasn't a great zone guy but could out skate 90% of the NHL allowing him to get back when he over committed.

Having legit SH potential also really helps keep other teams honest and makes them back off with less aggressive pressure. Wings haven't had that since Dats/Z/ Prime Helm pked.

 

[dalem177]

I remember watching that game when the Wings were hot and the Wild were cartoon pylons and their coach got booted that night. I just way prefer the moving PK.

 

[19 for president]

I remember watching that game when the Wings were hot and the Wild were cartoon pylons and their coach got booted that night. I just way prefer the moving PK.

Wings were extremes of both last season. I'm hoping Mac and team can implement an actual system with a full camp. Plus we hopefully land at least 1 good pking dman to slot chia down and stabilize Seider.

 

[Henkka]

Having legit SH potential also really helps keep other teams honest and makes them back off with less aggressive pressure. Wings haven't had that since Dats/Z/ Prime Helm pked.

18th(2011-12, Lids retired)-12th-12th-17th-14th-16th(Z retired)-23rd-28th-31st-22nd-32nd-18th-14th-32nd(last season, 2024-25)

Since 2011-12 season to this day.

It really improved from tanking days to 2022-23 season (18th and 14th), when we got Copp and Chiarot. But just wonder what a heck happened at last season, to collapse back on NHL-worst?

2021-22 (32nd, NHL-worst PK)
Suter - Gagner
DeKeyser - Seider

Rasmussen - Namestnikov/Sundqvist
Staal - Hronek

Nedeljkovic/Greiss in net.
Blashill/Tanguay/Houda as coaches.

2022-23 (18th best, some improvement)
Suter - Copp
Chiarot - Seider

Rasmussen - Larkin
Walman - Hronek/Määttä

Husso
Nedeljkovic/Hellberg in net.
Lalonde/Boughner/Tanguay/Varady as coaches.

2023-24 (14th best, still improving)
Copp - Compher
Walman - Seider

Rasmussen - Larkin
Chiarot - Petry

Lyon
Reimer/Husso in net.
Lalonde/Boughner/Tanguay/Varady as coaches.

2024-25 (32nd, NHL-worst again)
Motte - Compher
Chiarot - Seider

Larkin - Copp/Rasmussen
Edvinsson - Petry/Holl

Talbot/Lyon (and Husso/Mrazek) in net.

Lalonde/Boughner/Tanguay/Varady as coaches for first 34 games.
McLellan/Yawney/Tanguay/Varady as coaches for last 48 games.

Changes what McLellan did, was using Motte-Compher and Chiarot-Seider as well as 1st unit. And he did took Larkin and Petry off from the PK (which Lalonde did use more). 2nd unit under McLellan was Ras-Copp, Ed-Holl.

Sometimes after the coaching change it did work well, I remember they went a 10-game strech just by allowing one goal. I was praising Yawney about that. It did also look much better by eye-test, but then it just did start allowing goals again. I think it went more to bad goaltending at late of the season than the players in the unit.

Motte was supposed to be some kind of PK specialist, we did never really see that. He was more usable at even strength.

Copp is a specialist. He was that at Jets and NYR and improved our PK instantly on his first season. He should be there always. I don't understand the PK love for Compher, think he should be just a secondary guy. Could also think the heavy PK load wears him down and kills his offence.

Chiarot is the rover guy, not good, should never be on the main unit. Screen own goalies with bad positioning too many times. 2nd pair, fine. Hope we will get UFA upgrade in this spot, which will push Chiarot down, like at 2023-24.

One thing which is still problematic, I haven't seen Seider been a force on the PK. He is just one of the guys. He has been at problems also for team Germany. He has to improve, that salary demands to be the best.

Also, it is very interesting, how the playoff spot kind of correlates with the strength of the PK.

Last time it was 14th best, it was 2023-24 season, we were out of the playoffs by 1 point.

Before that, when it was as good, it was 14th best, and that was our last playoff season at 2015-16. With bad PK, you are mostly out of the playoffs.

 

[SantosHalper]

2021-22 (32nd, NHL-worst PK)
Suter - Gagner
DeKeyser - Seider

2022-23 (18th best, some improvement)
Suter - Copp
Chiarot - Seider

Speaking of Suter, he's develop in to quite a PK specialist.

Canucks had 3rd worst PK in 2021-22 and worst PK in 2022-23. They signed Suter 2023, PK improves to 17th best. Allthough Suter played 67 games, SH TOI/GP 1:19, 5th most SH TOI of all forwards on PK.

This season Canucks had 3rd best PK in the league, Suter's SH TOI/GP 2:17, highest of all forwards. And highest SH TOI in the entire team 185:24.

Letting him go was a mistake.

 

[Henkka]

Our PK did still improve after Suter left. And it was also NHL-worst with him (season 2021-22).

I also liked him on the PK by eye-test, but don't think he was the main factor.

Also he is gonna get paid on this summer, so there's no answer to our problems.

I'd like to look more towards the future, maybe Kasper is the guy to fix everything? He already fixed everything at 5-on-5 play, every line or spot was good for him and teammates improved around him. Maybe he can do the same on PK ?

1. Copp should be there by default. Best faceoffs guy, shot blocker and smartest guy to learn opposite units. He should be the PK LEADER.
2. Kasper as the "helm-effect", active guy forcing opposite team to make bad plays.
3. Seider. He just has to grow to be the best like Lidström. Net-front play must be more physical.
4. Adding UFA Gavrikov. Statistically very effective, blocking shots, cutting passing lanes, could be the best mentor for Seider, and at same time, very effective.

There's the top unit. Then secondary guys can be whoever. Mostly Rasmussen and Compher. Then maybe Larkin as extra. Edvinsson-Chiarot as the 2nd PK pair. Johansson the 5th man.

 

[Oddbob]

I prefer the aggressive PK. Just waiting back seems like just accepting you are going to get scored on at some point.

 

[SantosHalper]

Our PK did still improve after Suter left. And it was also NHL-worst with him (season 2021-22).

I also liked him on the PK by eye-test, but don't think he was the main factor.

Also he is gonna get paid on this summer, so there's no answer to our problems.

I don't know how much PK Suter did in juniors or in Europe, he didn't play much PK in Chicago SH TOI/GP 0:31(Cat for example 0:26). But in Detroit straight to the deep end.

So i think Copp mentored him and Suter learned and took those lessons to Vancouver with him and improved their PK. Could have been fruightfull relationship between Copp and Suter. Would have been cheap contract to re-sign but ship has sailed. After Bennett and Tavares re-sign, Suter gonna be top-3 center in the UFA markets.

I'd like to look more towards the future, maybe Kasper is the guy to fix everything?

That's one for Copp to mentor. Söderblom the other one? Humongous reach covers lot of ground.