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OT: The OT thread - Where we're going we don't need topics. Warning in post 1

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Reclamation Project said:
Played around with a Surface Pro 4 today. Great device. It's a shame Windows 10 is holding it back.
Click to expand...

Windows 10 story:

A little background: I am classified as an independent government contractor, and as such I have to buy my own laptop, software, printers, scanners, etc. But I'm not that independent in that I work for a company (who has the government contract) and they call all the shots in regard as to what I'm required an order to keep the job. As an example, I am forced to use a PC/Windows machine rather than an Apple Mac.

So, I am not allowed to upgrade to Windows 10 by my company. Apparently, the company is concerned about the efficacy and stability of the operating system. :laugh: :laugh:

I got news for them. Wasn't going to upgrade anyway. Microsoft has lost all credibility in my eyes; that happened several years ago. Windows Vista was the last ****ing straw. I'm sticking with Windows 7 until my computer dies on me.
 
I was willing to give Microsoft a second chance after enjoying my Xbox One so much. The Xbox One is such a phenomenal platform. Everything about it is perfect. From Kinect, to the TV integration, to the UI, to the games - it's simply perfected executed. The idea of having a device that was very portable, had an optional keyboard for when I do and don't want it, and above all else, a full executed OS (all my work sites are heavily detailed and basically useless on a phone; multiple layers and such) was very attractive. The build quality and design is fantastic. The keyboard case (now with proper keys) is top notch. And the pen is just as advertised. However, Windows is still an acquired taste. There were no glaring problems, but rather many smaller ones. I just couldn't get past them all. It's a bummer because I really wanted to pick one up. I want a tablet UI with a full OS backbone. It doesn't translate well to a tablet.
 
Ron said:
Windows 10 story:

A little background: I am classified as an independent government contractor, and as such I have to buy my own laptop, software, printers, scanners, etc. But I'm not that independent in that I work for a company (who has the government contract) and they call all the shots in regard as to what I'm required an order to keep the job. As an example, I am forced to use a PC/Windows machine rather than an Apple Mac.

So, I am not allowed to upgrade to Windows 10 by my company. Apparently, the company is concerned about the efficacy and stability of the operating system. :laugh: :laugh:

I got news for them. Wasn't going to upgrade anyway. Microsoft has lost all credibility in my eyes; that happened several years ago. Windows Vista was the last ****ing straw. I'm sticking with Windows 7 until my computer dies on me.
Click to expand...

I ran vista for years, and apparently I did it wrong... because I never had an issue with it... Even though I was constantly running 3d modeling software working with assemblies made up of hundreds of parts on a machine with 2 gig of ram.

I dunno, I am pretty convinced that all the issues with Vista were HUGELY overblown and basically came down to 3 issues
1.) Vista introduce 64 bit to the mainstream, and hardware manufactures needed to catch up.
2.) Vista reported cache memory use in its system tools, and people don't understand that your not really supposed to have free memory...
3.) Service pack 0 was terrible on most windows releases, including the great XP.

I spent years responding to people on forums who were bemoaning vista, and have not heard very many good reasons why it was so terrible. Vista service pack 2/3 was basically windows 7, or rather Windows 7 may well have been SP4, but it was worth it to distance themselves from the hate...and make more money. That "upgrade" was more marketing then software.
 
I also didn't have problems with Vista. I had a secondary Windows laptop outside of my BlacBook for when I absolutely needed Windows. It was a Gateway and actually still works today. I keep it as a time portal to reminisce. I've owned a few Dells also and they were great machines.

I still prefer OS X though. Windows is rubbish.
 
Captain Mittens said:
I still have Vista on my home computer.
Click to expand...

And still has not exploded causing house fires?!

I may rather Vista then 8... but in all honesty, I've used all but 10... It doesn't really matter, just learn how to use your computer and it is all fine? Really the only thing that gets me is every time I use windows I get constant attempts to update something or other, something is always trying to take over focus/resources, and OEM installed crap wont leave me the **** alone. Usually fine if you take the time to tell each piece to shut the **** up though.

Reclamation Project said:
I still prefer OS X though. Windows is rubbish.
Click to expand...
I accidentally started using linux and now I am one of "those guys" :(
Really, I just want to be left the **** alone... but surpisingly these days basically all my hardware but printers "just works" better on linux then windows. You do have to know how stuff works though because there will always be an issue or two with linux that pops up. But tiling window managers is the right answer. When I use windows having windows all over the place is a cluster ****, and I am constanly amazed by how all the interruptions from random programs running in my system tray is considered acceptable. I haven't spent the time on my OEM windows installation, and the fact that the virus scanner CONSTANTLY disrupts my work is ****ing crazy. The times I have used apple it seems like it wants to do too much, and hide too much from me.. but like I said I am willing to learn whats going on, and just want to be left the **** alone. Very much like running one command every week or so to update every piece of software on my system, and never being bothered to do so if I don't choose.
 
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Reclamation Project said:
I've never touched Linux.
Click to expand...

Meh.

Tons of options... And tbh tiling window managers are the ****.
Basically, any window you open opens full screen. Open another one, and it splits half and half, you choose vertical or horizontal. Open another, and what ever window you have selected splits again, your choice vertical or horizontal. No task bar or minimizing, no overlap. You can re size or reorganize, split your windows between 10 different virtual desktops. VERY hard to use the traditional overlapping floating windows for me now...So sloppy.

But you have to be active in your system. You have to know how to do stuff. There are easy versions, that try and set everything up for you... but this kinda misses the point, AND none of them ever worked that well for me. I like it because its super lightweight and does NOTHING but what I tell it... but I have to tell it to do basically everything (and sometimes, you have to tell it HOW to do things).

Not the answer for everyone, but lets me have basically whatever setup I want, with what ever degree of automation I want (which is very little, I have no start menu, no desktop... just like a status bar and system tray... key combos to launch programs, or for random stuff a key combo to start listening then start typing the name and it shows matches...)

Its a whole other system, I see no reason to switch to it for no reason... but its a very transparent system. If you are willing to learn how you computer works, and learn a new system it can be quite nice. The software management is very cool, I basically say the equivalent of "install Firefox" in a command line (pacman -S firefox), and it installs. You say "update" (pacman -Syu) and it updates literally every piece of software on your computer that has an update available (and outside of you running that command it will NEVER bother you to).

Open source is nice too, because the person making the software is not motivated by sales, just what will work best for the user... So no holding back on functionality that is not in the OS's best interest. Though it can be more manual, and have rougher looking GUIs, or require use of command line.
 
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I use Spaces in OS X. Each one of my programs has it's on Space that I can easily cycle through using three fingers on the trackpad.
 
OSX and linux are actually born from the same thing, so there are likely more similarities between then and windows. As I understand, if you open up a command prompt on OSX a lot of it is the same as linux... but a lot of "making things easy" on top...

The big thing with linux... is linux is really just the back end. "linux" isn't REALLY an OS, its a kernel. That means its really just what controls how things you are not directly interacting with work. It handles controlling how your hard drive works, and your video card, ect... But say even when you copy a file, at its core that uses the cp command, which is not linux, its part of a 3rd party set of tools (the GNU toolchain) telling linux to move data from one part of your hard drive to another.
The nice part of linux is that EVERYTHING is really just the culmination of many small utilities. You take the smallest but of functionality, and that is one program. Listing the files in a directory, copying a file. whatever... the basic philosophy is do one thing, and do it well. Well, all those parts are interchangeable. It used to be way worse... But they define ridged standards on how these utilities should interact. The appeal is that if you are unhappy with any one given part... you install a different one.

So even like booting you computer up into just dos... The equivalent is booting the Linux kernel, and giving you the bash shell (a separate program) as a way to interface with it. Any command you issue from bash is yet ANOTHER utility that tells the linux kernel what you want to do.

When you boot into your "windows" like environment, you run X11, but even then... This gives the ability to open a program as a "window"... but it wont have any kind of title bar to move it around, any "close" button, any maximize, minimize, ect... This is given by running a window manager on top of it.

If you want like a start menu, you need some kind of launcher to run on top of that.

If you want to see a panel full of what you have running (like the bar that is next to windows start menu, that shows running programs), you need a panel on top of that.

System tray, again, another program.

Control pannel, ect, ect, ect....

This is true of windows and OSX too.... its just that there its all packaged into one.

Linux is a collection of tiny utilities, most of which are not technically linux... But the appeal is that you can swap out any part you don't like for one of 30 others.

I don't need control panelsnighmare, login prompts, ect... So I don't have them installed.
My version of what amounts to "windows" is like.... 100mbs worth of X11, to draw graphical windows, and 3mbs of i3, which handles moving them around and re sizing them.


Similar to this. Its very basic... but all I want.

The nice part is, you can run different groups of software, such as KDE which will give you all kinds of fancy stuff that is prettier then moderns windows... You can run stuff like unity which is closer to mac setup. You can run gnome 2, which is closer to a windows 3.1 type interface, or mate which is a modern interpretation... Cinnamon which is like a super fancy XP clone... Really as much as or as little as you want. It IS really nice to be able to run as little or as much interface as you choose.

And since its open source, anyone can put together any combination pre-packaged for you. HOWEVER, since its so many tiny components... Getting them to all interact can take understanding how they all mesh. Things like Ubuntu (trying to be the next windows :( ), Linux Mint, ect... will TRY and make it all easy on you... but so many moving parts in my experience if your not willing to get your hands dirty... SOMETHING will **** up.
Its like a 50s chevy pickup, vs modern lexus.
The pickup is easy... If you can turn a wrench and are willing to know how cars work. If your a soccer mom its kinda a nightmare.
Modern Lexus is great for a soccer mom... But Chevy pickup guy cant even change the ****ing oil with out a special tool, and heaven forbid you want to check your transmission fluid.

Basically, nerd ****... Linux is epic. Otherwise stay away.
 
Reclamation Project said:
I also didn't have problems with Vista. I had a secondary Windows laptop outside of my BlacBook for when I absolutely needed Windows. It was a Gateway and actually still works today. I keep it as a time portal to reminisce. I've owned a few Dells also and they were great machines.

I still prefer OS X though. Windows is rubbish.
Click to expand...

I have a couple Dell machines, not too bad overall. Had an issue with one but the repairs were free since it was under warranty. Still have a 5150c I purchased in 2006 and it's still running with Windows 7.

Currently have an HP laptop and it seems to be alright.

RP, everytime you put the word 'rubbish' into one of your posts I have a shot of brandy in the morning. Carry on, good sir! :laugh:
 
Ron said:
Click to expand...


:laugh: Solid flick.

jordi-molla-o.gif
 
scryan said:
OSX and linux are actually born from the same thing, so there are likely more similarities between then and windows. As I understand, if you open up a command prompt on OSX a lot of it is the same as linux... but a lot of "making things easy" on top...

The big thing with linux... is linux is really just the back end. "linux" isn't REALLY an OS, its a kernel. That means its really just what controls how things you are not directly interacting with work. It handles controlling how your hard drive works, and your video card, ect... But say even when you copy a file, at its core that uses the cp command, which is not linux, its part of a 3rd party set of tools (the GNU toolchain) telling linux to move data from one part of your hard drive to another.
The nice part of linux is that EVERYTHING is really just the culmination of many small utilities. You take the smallest but of functionality, and that is one program. Listing the files in a directory, copying a file. whatever... the basic philosophy is do one thing, and do it well. Well, all those parts are interchangeable. It used to be way worse... But they define ridged standards on how these utilities should interact. The appeal is that if you are unhappy with any one given part... you install a different one.

So even like booting you computer up into just dos... The equivalent is booting the Linux kernel, and giving you the bash shell (a separate program) as a way to interface with it. Any command you issue from bash is yet ANOTHER utility that tells the linux kernel what you want to do.

When you boot into your "windows" like environment, you run X11, but even then... This gives the ability to open a program as a "window"... but it wont have any kind of title bar to move it around, any "close" button, any maximize, minimize, ect... This is given by running a window manager on top of it.

If you want like a start menu, you need some kind of launcher to run on top of that.

If you want to see a panel full of what you have running (like the bar that is next to windows start menu, that shows running programs), you need a panel on top of that.

System tray, again, another program.

Control pannel, ect, ect, ect....

This is true of windows and OSX too.... its just that there its all packaged into one.

Linux is a collection of tiny utilities, most of which are not technically linux... But the appeal is that you can swap out any part you don't like for one of 30 others.

I don't need control panelsnighmare, login prompts, ect... So I don't have them installed.
My version of what amounts to "windows" is like.... 100mbs worth of X11, to draw graphical windows, and 3mbs of i3, which handles moving them around and re sizing them.


Similar to this. Its very basic... but all I want.

The nice part is, you can run different groups of software, such as KDE which will give you all kinds of fancy stuff that is prettier then moderns windows... You can run stuff like unity which is closer to mac setup. You can run gnome 2, which is closer to a windows 3.1 type interface, or mate which is a modern interpretation... Cinnamon which is like a super fancy XP clone... Really as much as or as little as you want. It IS really nice to be able to run as little or as much interface as you choose.

And since its open source, anyone can put together any combination pre-packaged for you. HOWEVER, since its so many tiny components... Getting them to all interact can take understanding how they all mesh. Things like Ubuntu (trying to be the next windows :( ), Linux Mint, ect... will TRY and make it all easy on you... but so many moving parts in my experience if your not willing to get your hands dirty... SOMETHING will **** up.
Its like a 50s chevy pickup, vs modern lexus.
The pickup is easy... If you can turn a wrench and are willing to know how cars work. If your a soccer mom its kinda a nightmare.
Modern Lexus is great for a soccer mom... But Chevy pickup guy cant even change the ****ing oil with out a special tool, and heaven forbid you want to check your transmission fluid.

Basically, nerd ****... Linux is epic. Otherwise stay away.
Click to expand...


OS X is stable, Windows is leaky like a 1963 Rambler. 'Nuff said. **** Microsoft and their leaky, buggy programs and operating systems that you have to update five times a day. Nuisance built in and/or incompetence...take your pick.
 
kovacro said:
I have a couple Dell machines, not too bad overall. Had an issue with one but the repairs were free since it was under warranty. Still have a 5150c I purchased in 2006 and it's still running with Windows 7.
Click to expand...
I heard some complaints about dell but they were great with me.
I bought a scratch and dent refurbished with vista.
They sent a bad keyboard, so the computer wouldn't start and came to my house and replaced everything :)

That ****er is over 10 years old and is still trucking
 
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