Post-Game Talk: The only thing in the mix, are the line combos... Habs lose to Capitals.

[admiralcadillac]

Dvorak and Newhook need to go

 

[VT]

I'm not buying the age BS or the rebuild BS it's just an easy cop out.
Young players are more prepared than ever to play in the NHL.
There is not one defender on our team who hasn't shown an ability to play and to play well at this level and yes that includes Justin Barron.
The players are not buying into the current game plan and they are playing like they don't believe they can win with it.
I'm also getting the sense that this team is not quite as well knit as they would have us believe.
It doesn't matter who you move in or out of the line up they are being asked to play a style they are clearly incapable of and they know it.

Here it is a different matter. Experienced players know how to react in different situations, when to hold the puck, etc., young players don't always. Some things you get only with age. And if you have experienced players on defense, your captain is Ovechkin, your veterans are Wilson and Carlson, it's a completely different situation.

 

[Rapala]

More draft picks won't have the impact we need for at least 3-5 years. The organization said that they wanted to be in the mix this season with a goal to make a playoff push next season. We are nowhere near those goals and adding more 18 year old's wont change that.

We are now entering the tougher decision phase for Hughes and Gorton. We aren't seeing much progression from some of our players and MSL has hit a wall with trying to implement systems and it seems that his motivational tactics have hit the skids as well.

Marty did well squeezing the lemon these past two seasons.
The players showed management something but did management give the players what they really needed or wanted?

 

[LaP]

More draft picks won't have the impact we need for at least 3-5 years. The organization said that they wanted to be in the mix this season with a goal to make a playoff push next season. We are nowhere near those goals and adding more 18 year old's wont change that.

We are now entering the tougher decision phase for Hughes and Gorton. We aren't seeing much progression from some of our players and MSL has hit a wall with trying to implement systems and it seems that his motivational tactics have hit the skids as well.

We'll add Demidov next year. It looks like we should draft top 5 again and a top 5 picks can definitely have an impact at 19 after 1 season of experience. Hutson will have a full year of experience. Slaf will turn 21. Guhle will be 23 and entering his prime. We have so many other guys between 20 and 22 that one of them is bound to surprise out of nowhere at some point (Roy, Mesar, Beck, Mailloux, Endstrom, Heineman) . We'll have more cap space to be active. Things can turn around quickly.

This said there's a couple of guys for whom the evaluation should probably be over after this season. Xhekaj, Struble , Barron and Newhok i mean they are all 23+ and this is pretty much a take it or leave it season for them. They have to show more. We'll have to use the cap space next season to grab better vets. I like Savard but we need a defensive top 4 dman and he's not that anympore. We have to imrpove Dvorak too. Need a better vet center than this useless jersey filler. I'd definitely entertain trading Newhook before it's too late i don't see it in him and never did.

 

[OldCraig71]

I’ve said it since the beginning with St. Louis. I had to tread water lightly however because the moment you said anything questioning his coaching, his cult would attack you. Good guy to have around the team as a personality, absolutely useless as a head coach.

We can't just blame the coach without blaming the guys that supervise his work and provide him with the roster. Hughes and Gorton wanted to build a roster that played exciting up tempo hockey and that has been a failure so far.

They decided to bring in Newhook and Dach, both throwaways from rival teams. People can argue that they aren't that but based on what we are seeing from both, is it hard to agree that I am correct here?

Hughes and Gorton went with 3-4 young D per night, all of which are learning on the fly and some of which won't ever be what they were hyped to be. They have David Savard and Mike Matheson as veteran mentorship which isn't ideal. Savard does not have NHL speed anymore and there are nights when Matheson plays D like a forward. This puts more spotlight on the young guys and most of them aren't mature enough to perform up to those expectations.

Adding Demidov won't change our fortunes much because the chassis underneath this vehicle is rusty and not very stable. We also have the leftover crap from Bergevin which is handcuffing our management group from adding valuable help to the roster. Dvorak and Armia will be gone next summer but we still have Gallagher and Anderson and both are not getting traded because they are too costly for what they bring to a contending team.

We are stuck with this situation for at least this season and there isn't much a coaching change will do but I do agree that MSL is in over his head now. He probably sticks it out for the rest of the season and rides off into the sunset in May citing personal reasons. Cheers.

 

[Rapala]

Here it is a different matter. Experienced players know how to react in different situations, when to hold the puck, etc., young players don't always. Some things you get only with age. And if you have experienced players on defense, your captain is Ovechkin, your veterans are Wilson and Carlson, it's a completely different situation.

If you asked the Caps to play our game they would not be 7-2 right now.
I'll agree the veterans on our team are not ideal but neither is the complex system this team is being asked to play.
It's like they are stuck between two opposing systems and unable to perfect either.
For me Marty et al are trying to have this team play their Stanley Cup winning formula yet they haven't even played for .500 yet.
I'm not sure how that makes sense in a rebuild with young players maybe we should start with crawling then walking?

 

[Miller Time]

This said there's a couple of guys for whom the evaluation should probably be over after this season. Xhekaj, Struble , Barron and Newhok i mean they are all 23+ and this is pretty much a take it or leave it season for them. They have to show more. We'll have to use the cap space next season to grab better vets. I like Savard but we need a defensive top 4 dman and he's not that anympore. We have to imrpove Dvorak too. Need a better vet center than this useless jersey filler. I'd definitely entertain trading Newhook before it's too late i don't see it in him and never did.

?
There are no vet upgrades that you'll find at that low of a cap cost.

Those 4 players are all cost controlled RFA's, why on earth would you view them as "take it or leave it" at 23?

Flames made that kind of mistake with Bennett, trading him away at 23-24, only to watch him break out the very next season.

If we can package some of these assets in a trade to cap strapped team willing to give up a vet upgrade in the process, sure... But that's if another team sees the value in their potential, not because we're impatient and giving up on them early (selling them for peanuts)... That would be idiotic

 

[OldCraig71]

We'll add Demidov next year. It looks like we should draft top 5 again and a top 5 picks can definitely have an impact at 19 after 1 season of experience. Hutson will have a full year of experience. Slaf will turn 21. Guhle will be 23 and entering his prime. We have so many other guys between 20 and 22 that one of them is bound to surprise out of nowhere at some point (Roy, Mesar, Beck, Mailloux, Endstrom, Heineman) . We'll have more cap space to be active. Things can turn around quickly.

This said there's a couple of guys for whom the evaluation should probably be over after this season. Xhekaj, Struble , Barron and Newhok i mean they are all 23+ and this is pretty much a take it or leave it season for them. They have to show more. We'll have to use the cap space next season to grab better vets. I like Savard but we need a defensive top 4 dman and he's not that anympore. We have to imrpove Dvorak too. Need a better vet center than this useless jersey filler. I'd definitely entertain trading Newhook before it's too late i don't see it in him and never did.

I agree and you can Throw Dach in there as well but based on the contract they gave him, they felt the same about him as the others you mentioned.

The flaw in this rebuild as you said is the weakness of the supporting cast of vets. We should be happy with the baby steps of the young players but instead we are seeing nothing from the vets and too much spotlight on the kids which is very tough on them mentally especially with us losing games as we have this year. Hughes is also a rookie and he was given the red carpet treatment up till now but the shine is wearing off by the day.

Marty did well squeezing the lemon these past two seasons.
The players showed management something but did management give the players what they really needed or wanted?

Hughes has failed to surround MSL and his kids with the right kind of veterans on the roster. We are seeing it every single game.

 

[bsl]

It is fine. Part of the process. Rebuilding team and all. This will allow us to add even more elite talent to the prospect pool.
This season is not salvageable. They would need to sacrifice future for immediate help. Players are just learning the ropes with MSL.

In the process we trust.

View attachment 924662

If Habs go under 500 to Nov 22. It’s over. Sell. One more top 3 pick please.

 

[Miller Time]

Hughes has failed to surround MSL and his kids with the right kind of veterans on the roster. We are seeing it every single game.

Dvorak, Anderson, Gally, Savard, Armia.
24M$ in cap space on veterans, not one of which is playing better than mediocre bottom 6 /bottom pair.

Laine, the top 6 veteran addition added, is out.

Matheson, for all his warts, remains an upgrade over what Petry is at this point in his career.

It's not so much "failed" as it is the reality of being handcuffed by the brutal contracts and long term roster situation Bargainbin left behind.

Almost 1/2 of that gets cleared this summer. If Matheson & Laine are any indication, we can comfortably bet that we'll see an vet upgrade over Savard/Dvorak/Armia by next fall.

Patience is hard, but it's not like the mess we had to dig out of wasn't clear from the start.

 

[LaP]

If Habs go under 500 to Nov 22. It’s over. Sell. One more top 3 pick please.

There's nothing to sell sadly outside of Savard. Don't think anyone will be interested in Dvorak and Armia they'll spend the year here like Pearson last year.

 

[bsl]

In the mix for new tank parts.
Is that your house runner? Did not think you were the neoclassical type.

 

[zx81]

Right now I'm only watching for CC's goal streak. This team is just depressing to watch as a whole.

Rebuilds suck.

 

[Habs]

There's nothing to sell sadly outside of Savard. Don't think anyone will be interested in Dvorak and Armia they'll spend the year here like Pearson last year.

Let's hope Kent doesn't do something really stupid and trade one of our 1st round picks to patch a hole.

 

[The Great Weal]

I’m still livid that MSL rewarded Dvo with 5 on 3 PP time, it is completely unacceptable.

 

[Takeru]

Bright side: it's only been 11 games, there's plenty of time for guys to hit their stride and improve their collective play.

Somber side: It reminds us the journey will still take a while. Things won't turn around on a dime the moment we're freed of Dvo/Armia next summer. Defense is very raw and I continue to question having a guy like Matheson to mentor our 23 and under D. I do feel swapping him for a more responsible vet D could go a long way to structure our D core and help our youngsters develop the responsible side of their game. We have too many offense-minded D-prospects, adding Math on top of it makes it tough to balance out. Choices will need to be made at some point.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

There's a lot to vent about this game but Dvorak's usage is inexcusable. He has 2 jobs, be a solid defensive center and win face-offs. He can't do either right now and is actually a liability with his turnovers. He simply shouldn't be playing right now. I'm not sure why Marty is so hesitant to bench vets like him and Hoffman when he was here.

The front office. Maximizing their productions so they can hopefuly be traded off.

 

[Takeru]

I have no idea what the best plan is going forward. The powerplay being somewhat successful is a nice surprise, but everything else has been pretty underwhelming. I'm confident our offense will fine moving forward, adding Demidov and Laine should give us a decent boost next season.

I'd give St. Louis until the end of the year and compare the team's 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters of the season to see if he can get some progression going on the defensive end, if not I'd have him gone come April.

At the deadline I'd look to move Matheson since he's filling the same role we want Hutson to fill. And I'd move out Savard since he'll be ancient once we're actually contending.

Then in the offseason we'd ideally target a defensively responsible 2nd pair guy for the right and left sides in the 25-30 year old range, and potentially a 2C depending on how Dach's season pans out.
There's plenty of stuff left to iron out before next season starts, but they better use this time to scout out some potential pieces to add going forward.

That's pretty much my shopping list for this summer.

That's where we'll see what Hughes is made of. He'll be rid of most of Bergy's leftovers.

Trading for picks/prospects and gambles is fine and all, but rounding up a team that can actually contend is the real test.

 

[Miller Time]

I’m still livid that MSL rewarded Dvo with 5 on 3 PP time it is completely unacceptable.

It's as if they are doing whatever they can to try and get him going....

Hopefully it's because of a mandate to keep using him until KH can find a taker.

 

[Yep]

"We puke ourselves"

I guess that's another way to be "in the mix" (of your previous meals).

Bon appétit!

 

[Karma Police]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1852380493456552282

Bag skate this morning. Finally

 

[ahmedou]

Is that Tony Marinaro ?

Habs fans said that the Rizzler is Marinaro's son

 

[Sasha Orlov]

I’m still livid that MSL rewarded Dvo with 5 on 3 PP time, it is completely unacceptable.

5 on 3, time to put Armia and Dvorak out there

I’d fire his ass on the spot personally

 

[sampollock]

Dvorak and Newhook need to go

Newhook is not what we needed I guess

 

[Rapala]

There's nothing to sell sadly outside of Savard. Don't think anyone will be interested in Dvorak and Armia they'll spend the year here like Pearson last year.

We could sell Matheson but once again we'd have to have that solid top pair RD coming back.