The official Germany-Thread!!

[Patty Ice]

In Ehrhoffs case some ice time would help!!!

That's what I've been screaming.

 

[Force]

Kölzig is a joke, im sorry.
I mean that, no trolling or anything. If he had not been pulled for Jonas by Berlin in the semi's last year, Ingolstadt would have easily taken the series.

To have Kölzig on the olympic team may be wise, because he is a verry ecperienced player who can be tossed into any situation, so he is a perfect backup and an inspiration. But as starter? Müller has showcased his skills on international level a lot of times already, and he is simply a notch better than Kölzig. That, plus him beeing young, "real" German makes him the best choice. Jonas has not had his best season so far, so even though i like the guy, Greiss is such a talent he simply has to be pushed by taking him along.

Greiss is easily the best Goalie germany can field, but he is also young, and inexperienced, so there are risks. Let the guy loose a big game and you may destroy his career that way, he's only 18 isn't he?

From a pure sports perspective, what Greiss can do is 2 levels above Kölzig and Co, as shocking as that is. He's a "once every one hundret years talent".

 

[Burgs]

I'm sorry but by no means is Robert Müller a better goalie than Olaf Kölzig. I'm no Kölzig fan but come on, Olie is an NHL veteran. Müller is not and never will be. It's as simple as that and a single DEL playoff round won't change that. Kölzig will be our #1 goalie, Müller will be his backup and probably gets some starts in the early games before the NHLers arrive. I'm fine with that. Goal scoring will be the bigger challenge anyway.

And Greiss is a huge talent but he'll be turning only 20 tomorrow. The Olympics will be a great experience for him and Kotschnew but I don't expect them to get any ice time unless there's an emergency. These two as well as Pätzold and Ehelechner are all in their early twenties, will be interesting to see them fighting for national team spots in the future. But as of right now, Olie is the man.

 

[Corto]

To have Kölzig on the olympic team may be wise, because he is a verry ecperienced player who can be tossed into any situation, so he is a perfect backup and an inspiration. But as starter? Müller has showcased his skills on international level a lot of times already, and he is simply a notch better than Kölzig.

I think that' quite ridiculous, we're talking about a top-10 NHL goalie in the past 10 years and a Vezina winner in 2000.

Anyway, I'll be cheering Germany on, being from Croatia and a Sabre fan... So, here's to the Hechtor (fo#9's name earlier in the thread ).... My sedonf team behind the Czechs.

 

[Sanderson]

Kölzig is a joke, im sorry.
I mean that, no trolling or anything. If he had not been pulled for Jonas by Berlin in the semi's last year, Ingolstadt would have easily taken the series.

To have Kölzig on the olympic team may be wise, because he is a verry ecperienced player who can be tossed into any situation, so he is a perfect backup and an inspiration. But as starter? Müller has showcased his skills on international level a lot of times already, and he is simply a notch better than Kölzig. That, plus him beeing young, "real" German makes him the best choice. Jonas has not had his best season so far, so even though i like the guy, Greiss is such a talent he simply has to be pushed by taking him along.

Greiss is easily the best Goalie germany can field, but he is also young, and inexperienced, so there are risks. Let the guy loose a big game and you may destroy his career that way, he's only 18 isn't he?

From a pure sports perspective, what Greiss can do is 2 levels above Kölzig and Co, as shocking as that is. He's a "once every one hundret years talent".

Kölzig wasn't pulled, he was injured. That's the reason he didn't play in the World Championships afterwards. If we had him instead of Müller and Jonas, we wouldn't have been relegated.
Müller, when on top of his game, which hasn't happened in quite a while, can be an exceptional goalie, but his average play isn't even close to Kölzig's average play, nor is he even close to Közig, when Kölzig is on top of his game.

And what's the bs talk about being a "real" German again?
Kölzig is a real German, he is of German origin, his parents are German, he always had a German ID and he spent most of the summers during his youth in Germany. Being born or growing up away from your country doesn't really mean anything, or are Dany Heatley and Bruce Willis Germans?

 

[jekoh]

And what's the bs talk about being a "real" German again?
Kölzig is a real German, he is of German origin, his parents are German, he always had a German ID and he spent most of the summers during his youth in Germany. Being born or growing up away from your country doesn't really mean anything, or are Dany Heatley and Bruce Willis Germans?

"Origin" shouldn't matter, but if you want to use the parents' nationality as criteria, then yes Heatley is just as German as he's Canadian. He grew up in Canada, though (like Kölzig), and that's what makes him Canadian.

 

[Patty Ice]

From a pure sports perspective, what Greiss can do is 2 levels above Kölzig and Co, as shocking as that is. He's a "once every one hundret years talent".

Holy schnikeys, I jock Greiss about as hard as anyone on there but this is taking it up to notches not even on the dials. He ain't Wayne Gretzky or Bobby Orr here. Maybe for the German hockey program, that statement is true but best case scenario is that this kid will be the starter for his team, maybe some hardware, and put on some great numbers to make people's top 10 list but he won't be re-writing the record books anytime soon.

To even suggest he is (or Muller which is more disgusting) already more of a player than Kolzig is near pathetic.

 

[Force]

Kölzig USED to be good; Now he's just old, injury prone, and most of all he has never been a real member of the german national squad. He turned the team down most of the time, and was included on the roster a couple of time in prestigeous tourneys even though he wasn't fit.

Müller, Greiss, and Jonas are significantly better than him. However you can of course still give a lot of credit to his name, so it is quite possible that an Jaromir Jagr plays "more complicated" against him than against some German Nobody, who he doesn't even consider to be an obstacle between him and the net.

And my comment towards real german: kölzig isn't. Any canadien who played here in the DEL for 10+ years is more than him. To me its not about origin, but about the center of your life.

Anyway Goalkeeping is the least of our problems, we always were the best defensive team on the planet. Problem is we can't score and you can't defend Teams like Sweden or Chech republic for 60 minutes, so we loose. We loose with tight and honerable results but we never had a real chance of actually winning...

So thats my wish for the Olympic Touney: i'd like them to give one of the big 7 a real run for their money by netting some shots of our own!

 

[Safir*]

Kölzig is a joke, im sorry.
I mean that, no trolling or anything. If he had not been pulled for Jonas by Berlin in the semi's last year, Ingolstadt would have easily taken the series.

To have Kölzig on the olympic team may be wise, because he is a verry ecperienced player who can be tossed into any situation, so he is a perfect backup and an inspiration. But as starter? Müller has showcased his skills on international level a lot of times already, and he is simply a notch better than Kölzig. That, plus him beeing young, "real" German makes him the best choice. Jonas has not had his best season so far, so even though i like the guy, Greiss is such a talent he simply has to be pushed by taking him along.

Greiss is easily the best Goalie germany can field, but he is also young, and inexperienced, so there are risks. Let the guy loose a big game and you may destroy his career that way, he's only 18 isn't he?

From a pure sports perspective, what Greiss can do is 2 levels above Kölzig and Co, as shocking as that is. He's a "once every one hundret years talent".

Real German? You mean with blonde hair and blue eyes?

To me it seems that you are just pissed that Berlin managed to beat your favorite team. You seriously downgrade one of the better goalies in the NHL. He's facing the best players in the world on a nightly basis.

Kölzig and Ovechkin are the two towers in the battle for the Caps and Olaf has managed to steal a couple of games for his team. Teams that are in need of a goaltender will outbid themself for Kölzig at the trading deadline, if he's willing to leave the Caps.

 

[Patty Ice]

Kölzig USED to be good

Ask the Caps fans who gives them a shot to win a game?

we always were the best defensive team on the planet.

To quote Iron Maiden: "Run to the hills!"

 

[Sanderson]

"Origin" shouldn't matter, but if you want to use the parents' nationality as criteria, then yes Heatley is just as German as he's Canadian. He grew up in Canada, though (like Kölzig), and that's what makes him Canadian.

Totally forgot that his mother is German

Origin should matter. If your family lived in another country for a few generations, then you don't have much to do with your country of origin, but for a guy like Kölzig that isn't the case. If his parents would have spend their whole lives in Canada, because their parents already lived there, you could think about Kölzig not being a German, but Kölzig's parents don't have anything to do with any country not named Germany.

 

[Force]

Real German in sports means someone who has enough link to the country he plays for.
I realize you may have more trouble understanding this perspective since your league (the NHL i guess) does not have an "Foreign Players Problem". Here we have.
Youn and talented german players do not get ice time in their own league because it is way easier to buy some 40 year old nhl veteran who wants to make some pocket money, or any second level kinda AHL player than to build up young german players.

Prblem is the fans don't identify with teams full of legionairs. It is safe to say that the vast majority of Fans in the Stands don't want to see Kölzig - at all. His Berlin Adventure (Where he stole Jona's job, played like pure ****, and then was sent home after Jonas announced he'd leave the Club for Colone because he was so pissed) did not add many people to his fan's list.

He may be a big number in North America, which is why Krupp (who is NA basically) favours him, but "at home" nobody want's him. And again, it doesn't make a diffrence who minds the net if the game is 2 or 3 to nothing. What we need is some more coolness in front of the net on international level from Guys like Kreutzer, who could easily skate with the very best NHL'ers btw, don't be so narrow minded.

 

[Sanderson]

Yes, we Germans sure don't know anything about other Germans...
You are talking to other Germans here, we know the DEL and I haven't seen many German hockey fans, who would prefer Müller or Jonas over Kölzig. Everyone knows that we don't have a chance without Kölzig in goal.


As for Müller, Jonas or Greiss being better than Kölzig, they are not even close to him right now. Greiss is a great talent and he is playing a fantastic season, but he hasn't proven anything past that. Lets see him make an NHL-roster, before declaring him better than an elite starting goalie with many years of experience and a Vezina Trophy...

Müller and Jonas get shelled quite often in the DEL, I don't want to know how they would fare in the NHL.


Apart from that, you don't seem to read what was written by others. Kölzig was NOT sent home, he was injured. That's why he didn't play in the World Championships, which lead to Müller and Jonas playing, quite badly actually, and us getting relegated.
He didn't steal anybody's job either. He actually spend most of the lockout as goalie coach for his former junior team, He only came over because he wanted to play in the World Championships and the only chance to do so, was to get playing time before that. If Berlin wouldn't have signed him, someone else would have, and Berlin would have thought about getting another goalie as well...

Krupp isn't the reason why Kölzig is the no.1, every German coach had Kölzig as the clear cut starter and I would say they know a bit more about their goaltenders then you do.
Krupp isn't favouring NA players, he is actually the reason why Greiss will go to the Olympics, instead of guys like Jonas.


Kreutzer could play in the NHL, I agree, but he isn't even close to "the very best" players of the NHL. Just look at Hackert, who is a great player in the DEL, but couldn't even make it in the AHL.
It doesn't have anything to do with being narrow-minded, it's about looking at things how they are...

 

[Tronador]

Real German? You mean with blonde hair and blue eyes?

Please no political things here...

Greetings from Berlin

 

[Tronador]

Here is an interesting article about Christian Ehrhoff(San José) and German hockey:

Only 23, Ehroff an
international veteran

http://www.nhl.com/olympics/2006/ehrhoff012706.html

 

[Safir*]

Please no political things here...

Greetings from Berlin

Why do you quote me? I didn't started it.

What do you think, what posters from other countries think, when they read a post about "real" Germans?

I consider this issue as solved, because Force has explained his point.

 

[The Imp]

Didn't Germany find its way into B group at the Worlds? Playing guys like Erhoff and Kölzig...?

 

[Corto]

Real German in sports means someone who has enough link to the country he plays for.

So, I guess entire Germany must hate seeing Dirk Nowitzki, Patrick Femmerling, Roller... And a bunch of naturlized Germans grabbing medals in basketball, huh?

Prblem is the fans don't identify with teams full of legionairs. It is safe to say that the vast majority of Fans in the Stands don't want to see Kölzig - at all.

It's 2006. Fans identify with their national teams. In a world or equality and democracy, players are going to change national teams for one reason or another on occasion.

BTW, is Dirk Nowitzki a "real" German then? Of Polish origin and living in the USA.

 

[SwisshockeyAcademy]

Didn't Germany find its way into B group at the Worlds? Playing guys like Erhoff and Kölzig...?

Kolzig did not play. The team played incredibly poor hockey but will play much better in the Olympics.

 

[The Imp]

Kolzig did not play. The team played incredibly poor hockey but will play much better in the Olympics.

My bad, meant to say Erhoff and Hecht.

 

[Force]

BTW, is Dirk Nowitzki a "real" German then? Of Polish origin and living in the USA.

Erm we have some Problems here.
First of all, you don't know jack...

Dirk Nowitzki was born in Würzburg, Patrick Femerling was born in Düsseldorf, and Pascal Roller in Frankfurt.

http://www.basketball-bund.de/baske...nationalmannschaft_herren/portraets/1399.html
http://www.basketball-bund.de/baske...nationalmannschaft_herren/portraets/1392.html
http://www.basketball-bund.de/baske...nationalmannschaft_herren/portraets/1385.html

Secondly, you mess up two topics. Which is actually my bad because i started to confuse them...

One thing is "Foreigners" taking the "Jobs" of german athletes; Which is a problem because when your favorite team fields 20 Canadiens and 2 Germans because the rules force the management to, then you don't see the point any longer why this is supposed to be the german league; (but in all fairness the DEL is aware of the problem and continues to adress it).

The other thing is search the passports of all NBA/NHL players to see if any of them has some german grand-grand-mom or something. Kölzig has tried to win the Fans in the most recent Tournaments he joined Team GER, you got to give him credit for that. But his career is coming to an end, and i'd rather see players who have their Careers in front of them get to play in an event as outstanding as the olypmics.

For the Record, a guy like Rob Leask who made Germany the center of his life, raises his kids here, played for 10 years or so, actually wanted the Nationality for more than just market-value reasons has every right to be considered "real". Home is where your heart is, thats my point.

 

[SwisshockeyAcademy]

Erm we have some Problems here.
First of all, you don't know jack...

Dirk Nowitzki was born in Würzburg, Patrick Femerling was born in Düsseldorf, and Pascal Roller in Frankfurt.

http://www.basketball-bund.de/baske...nationalmannschaft_herren/portraets/1399.html
http://www.basketball-bund.de/baske...nationalmannschaft_herren/portraets/1392.html
http://www.basketball-bund.de/baske...nationalmannschaft_herren/portraets/1385.html

Secondly, you mess up two topics. Which is actually my bad because i started to confuse them...

One thing is "Foreigners" taking the "Jobs" of german athletes; Which is a problem because when your favorite team fields 20 Canadiens and 2 Germans because the rules force the management to, then you don't see the point any longer why this is supposed to be the german league; (but in all fairness the DEL is aware of the problem and continues to adress it).

The other thing is search the passports of all NBA/NHL players to see if any of them has some german grand-grand-mom or something. Kölzig has tried to win the Fans in the most recent Tournaments he joined Team GER, you got to give him credit for that. But his career is coming to an end, and i'd rather see players who have their Careers in front of them get to play in an event as outstanding as the olypmics.

For the Record, a guy like Rob Leask who made Germany the center of his life, raises his kids here, played for 10 years or so, actually wanted the Nationality for more than just market-value reasons has every right to be considered "real". Home is where your heart is, thats my point.

I like your argument. I still think Kolzig is the best option in net though and that is more important. I know if Oliver Kahn had a newfie mother I would not care if he was using her to play for Canada's national team.The team would have a higher profile but more importantly a better chance with him in it. I doubt Kolzig will play every game so we'll see what Muller or Greiss do with their chance when they get in.

 

[rbeeler]

On Kolzig, both of his parents are German, they resided in East Berlin, escaped to the west, and his father was in the hotel business. Hence why he was born in Johannesburg. From there they moved to Canada where he spent most of his life. He is definately of German origin. In fact he used to go over there every summer for a few weeks to visit his family (he and his parents are the only ones from his family who live outside of Germany. Actually, IIRC, his grand father was a physicist and risked a lot by escaping to the west. He speaks German, and has always been there for the National team (when not injured). I, as much as anybody, would love to see the younger German trained talent take over the roster (which I think will happen by the next Olympic games). However, at the present time, Kolzig is still an exceptional talent and the team needs him to stay competitive (although I think Muller and Greiss could do a fine job as well).

Good article on Ehrhoff, especially surprising since nhl.com seems to forget there are 5 other teams outside of the "Big-7". I really hope he, Schubert and Seidenberg can step up their games, like Luedemann did in the big tournaments.

Another question, why do they continue to play guys like Martinec and Fical when there are probably more 'deserving' players who could fill the roster? Is it the role that they play (defensive forward, playmaker)?

 

[jekoh]

If his parents would have spend their whole lives in Canada, because their parents already lived there, you could think about Kölzig not being a German, but Kölzig's parents don't have anything to do with any country not named Germany.

What about Benda, Martinec, Fical, Lewandowski, then, with that logic ? I mean their parents don't have more to do with Germany than Kölzig's with Canada. Not that I have anything against Kölzig playing for Germany, but it seems origin doesn't matter all that much.

 

[Sanderson]

Actually they do, all of these players come from areas which were populated by Germans or even belonged to Germany.
As far as I know, Canada was never property of Germany, so that doesn't allow this comparison...