The NHL embracing sports gambling was a major mistake

[patnyrnyg]

I’m not saying it’s impossible to beat the system, but mathematics pretty much proves that the longer you play the more likely you are to lose money.

If there was a skill involved that could win you money over the long term, the hockey gambling pundits that make picks on TV sure don’t have it.

Poker is the only legal gambling activity where it is possible to make money over the long term because you are allowed to bet on yourself and winning pays the same regardless of the expected outcome.

EDIT: Fantasy sports too.

Professional gamblers to do not need to and know they can't win every bet. If they bet on 100 games the same amount of money, they only have to go 53-47 to turn a profit.

 

[Mike C]

I’m not saying it’s impossible to beat the system, but mathematics pretty much proves that the longer you play the more likely you are to lose money.

If there was a skill involved that could win you money over the long term, the hockey gambling pundits that make picks on TV sure don’t have it.

Poker is the only legal gambling activity where it is possible to make money over the long term because you are allowed to bet on yourself and winning pays the same regardless of the expected outcome.

EDIT: Fantasy sports too.

In poker, you are playing vs other players and not the house. I won 2 out of 3 trips to Vegas. The house takes a rake (pct of the pot) and it's you vs the field

I played old school 7 card stud. Yes, for sure, some degree of luck is involved but poker is a lot of patience and discipline

Well, the intention is certainly the former. It's critically important to read Edward Bernays if you want to really understand (and subsequently become very depressed about ) this stuff.

You ever see this shit on Instagram where limited edition water cups are marketed to women and then they rush out to Target (or wherever) and fight over them? Over plastic cups? Yeah. That's what advertising can do.

Black Friday says "what's up"

 

[DuklaNation]

To the OP, tennis has been way worse and for far longer as compared to examples that you provided.

 

[njdevils1982]

Professional gamblers to do not need to and know they can't win every bet. If they bet on 100 games the same amount of money, they only have to go 53-47 to turn a profit.

hello sir, can i interest you in the martingale roulette system...

 

[Lshap]

Using sex as the analogy, we have a pretty good body of evidence showing that people actually do change their proclivities based on exposure to adult content. Something might give a person the “ick” for a long time, but a certain amount of unskippable ads can normalize it enough to provoke curiosity. One thing leads to another and they end up with a preference, and potentially an addiction.

This immersive strategy to promote gambling — panels talking about it at intermission, live betting updates during gameplay, superstars doing commercials — is all intended to normalize gambling behavior for people who aren’t yet engaged. It follows the same method. Normalize through repetition… generate curiosity… offer an easy open door to walk through… ramp up the intensity of engagement… capitalize on a now highly immersed consumer. A certain number of those people are going to go over to addiction, even though at one point they’d have said they would have no interest in gambling (or as we’ve seen repeatedly in this thread, that they’re “too smart” to become addicted).

I've done a lot of work for marketing companies so I'm familiar with basic persuasion – tugging on heartstrings, creating urgency, identifying a problem, etc. But the immersive strategy you're describing is a magnitude beyond anything I've worked with. The sheer volume of ads requires a budget I couldn't even imagine. My professional side is curious about operating on such a massive scale – is there a higher level of content and strategy, or are they just carpet-bombing the hell out of every broadcast? My guess is the relentless gambling advertising we're seeing reflects equal parts analytics and blind dart-throwing. Budgets may be infinite, however strategic thinking is not.

Personally, being immersed in gambling ads pisses me off. I used to be neutral, but after watching gambling hijack hockey my 'ick' reaction is stronger than ever. We've had multiple threads about gambling ads on this board; the vast majority of people sound as turned off as I am. I'm not disputing your point that people's proclivities can switch – clearly gambling ads convert new customers or companies wouldn't invest in them – but at the same time they're generating interest, they're also generating a strong negative backlash. Back to the sex analogy, even personal proclivities can become too much if there are no limits. But enough about my dating life...

Will the NHL ever decide gambling ads have become 'too much'? Maybe, if there's a big enough scandal. For now, the league seems to be enjoying its own gambling addiction.

 

[Mike C]

hello sir, can i interest you in the martingale roulette system...

not if they're laying heavy wood on some bets without winning on some dogs

 

[DaveG]

Well that was 8 players, and was over a hundred years ago, so no one of us will see it.

to quite that same level? probably not, but let's not pretend match fixing hasn't happened in very recent history including at the top levels of sport.

CCNY basketball
1978-79 BC basketball
1994 Arizona State basketball
there were even some match fixing allegations around the 2008 World Cup

feels like at least once a generation we run into something like this.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

to quite that same level? probably not, but let's not pretend match fixing hasn't happened in very recent history including at the top levels of sport.

CCNY basketball
1978-79 BC basketball
1994 Arizona State basketball
there were even some match fixing allegations around the 2008 World Cup

feels like at least once a generation we run into something like this.

There was also the betting scandal in the NBA in 2007. A ref betting mostly on games that he officiated.

 

[patnyrnyg]

hello sir, can i interest you in the martingale roulette system...

Absolutely! I would love to play a game where the mathematical expectation over the course of 38 spins is -2 units.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Anyone got an over/under on when the next Black Sox type scandal will occur?

You won't, at least not at the professional level. 1) the money required would raise red flags. 2) Back then, players fratenizing with gamblers and being on their payrolls was a lot more common. The Black Sox scandal was just the explosion. It had been going on for years. Not necessarily fixing WS, but definitely throwing random games here and there. I have read a lot about the Black Sox, reading a book now. Evidence tells me the owners knew it was happening, but were afraid to go after it too hard.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

They do. They read ad copy / report lines for gambling sites during the broadcasts/intermissions and they are idiot bets too (over/under goals scored next period for example).

That’s not telling you to gamble

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

That’s not telling you to gamble

Oh you want a pointless semantic argument, I thought maybe you were unaware.

The entire purpose of advertising is persuasion. You might be such a strong minded person that you are unaffected but there's countless people and addicts with poor impulse control, and advertising copy is now injected into the actual broadcasts and read by the actual announcers, meaning not part of the block of commercials.

 

[Auston Marlander]

NHL Promotes online gambling: "Look at these horrible things that degenerates have done"

NHL doesn't promote online gambling: "The NHL is a joke, throwing away millions in ad revenue, no wonder they are a 2nd rate league"


The reality is people just love to complain.

 

[Auston Marlander]

Society in general has dropped all facades of morality, it's every person for themselves at this point. This is just one aspect of it, you can see the majority of companies raising prices astronomically in the last 5 years as another one.

Are you talking about personal accountability or unregulated capitalism? One is fantastic, while the other will be the eventual downfall of American society.

Sports gambling in the NHL has personally not changed anything in my experience/viewing of hockey games.


Until of course there's a scandal or people start throwing games I really don't care

This is where I'm at. It doesn't affect my viewing at all, and when they drop lines it's a semi-interesting fact, nothing more nothing less.

 

[John Price]

I'm f***in sick of hearing about lines and parlays and I bet regularly

don't ban betting but ban it being tied into leagues and advertising it

if they can limit cigarette advertising what's the difference

 

[varsaku]

NHL Promotes online gambling: "Look at these horrible things that degenerates have done"

NHL doesn't promote online gambling: "The NHL is a joke, throwing away millions in ad revenue, no wonder they are a 2nd rate league"


The reality is people just love to complain.

not having gambling revenue is one thing i am perfectly fine with. It has ruined a lot of broadcasts as everything from analyst reporting to advertisements is overrun with them.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Gambling ads on Jersey's.

Something that would've gotten you laughed out of the room in 05'

 

[Johnny Rifle]

NHL Promotes online gambling: "Look at these horrible things that degenerates have done"

NHL doesn't promote online gambling: "The NHL is a joke, throwing away millions in ad revenue, no wonder they are a 2nd rate league"


The reality is people just love to complain.

I don’t see how even the most avid gambler would complain if the betting lines weren’t interweaved into a typical broadcast. The hardcore gamblers don’t need advertising to want to bet on games, whereas those who want nothing to do with gambling don’t want the barrage of in-game betting ads.

I really don’t think the league makes as money off the gambling sites as one might think. They could have sold the same advertising time to anyone for a variety of promotions. Instead of “betting odds presented by *****”, they could have “Saves of the Week presented by *****.”

The difference is that a player could use a Discover card or drove a Honda or rented from Enterprise. They can’t visit a gambling site and bet on hockey, which makes the league look like big hypocrites.

 

[Machinehead]

It wasn't a mistake.

It made them a bunch of money and to hell with the consequences.

That's how they drew it up.

 

[Auston Marlander]

not having gambling revenue is one thing i am perfectly fine with. It has ruined a lot of broadcasts as everything from analyst reporting to advertisements is overrun with them.

It hasn't. So easy to view it as a minor fact and not dwell. If players start throwing games then we'll have an issue.

I don’t see how even the most avid gambler would complain if the betting lines weren’t interweaved into a typical broadcast. The hardcore gamblers don’t need advertising to want to bet on games, whereas those who want nothing to do with gambling don’t want the barrage of in-game betting ads.

I really don’t think the league makes as money off the gambling sites as one might think. They could have sold the same advertising time to anyone for a variety of promotions. Instead of “betting odds presented by *****”, they could have “Saves of the Week presented by *****.”

The difference is that a player could use a Discover card or drove a Honda or rented from Enterprise. They can’t visit a gambling site and bet on hockey, which makes the league look like big hypocrites.

I didn't say anyone needs it. And it's really easy to ignore.

My point was that people will complain no matter what, and it's a really easy thing to just see as another minor fact that's easy to go in one ear and out the other.

 

[Johnny Rifle]

And it's really easy to ignore.

That’s where I disagree with you. If it were easy to ignore, then the oddsmakers and betting sites wasted millions of dollars on advertising, correct?

Just like ads on jerseys, we hate them because they are a big distraction.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

The entire purpose of advertising is persuasion. You might be such a strong minded person that you are unaffected but there's countless people and addicts with poor impulse control, and advertising copy is now injected into the actual broadcasts and read by the actual announcers, meaning not part of the block of commercials.

I would contend that no single person is so above the pull of advertising that they are unaffected.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I would contend that no single person is so above the pull of advertising that they are unaffected.

I actually gamble less now, even though it’s easier now,
the in game crap has become super annoying.

not having gambling revenue is one thing i am perfectly fine with. It has ruined a lot of broadcasts as everything from analyst reporting to advertisements is overrun with them.

If cap lowers a couple million or whatever, I’m in, dump it for good.

 

[JianYang]

A little off topic but I saw an old commercial on YouTube where the Flintstones were smoking cigarettes blatantly marketing towards children.

It sent chills up my spine. The gambling ads also make me feel dirty (although not to the same extent as the Flintstones ad). For non gamblers like me, the ads and intermission segments are invasive and a huge nuisance.

In a perfect world, the non gamblers can watch their game in peace with minimal gambling references, while another channel can have the broadcast lit up with a bunch of random props, tickers, and odds while watching the game.

 

[Johnny Rifle]

A little off topic but I saw an old commercial on YouTube where the Flintstones were smoking cigarettes blatantly marketing towards children.

It sent chills up my spine. The gambling ads also make me feel dirty (although not to the same extent as the Flintstones ad). For non gamblers like me, the ads and intermission segments are invasive and a huge nuisance.

In a perfect world, the non gamblers can watch their game in peace with minimal gambling references, while another channel can have the broadcast lit up with a bunch of random props, tickers, and odds while watching the game.

The Flintstones wasn’t written as a children’s program, and smoking wasn’t as taboo as it is today. However, your post makes me wonder what viewers who watch game rebroadcasts 50 years in the future will think of our gambling habits.