neg marron
Registered User
what current undrafted under 18yr old will be the next ovechkin type player and can there be a russian player in russia who might be better
Malkin.neg marron said:can there be a russian player in russia who might be better
Guillaume said:I don't seen any in the 1988 or 1989 generations right now with the same level of skill and the same type of game. After that, it is impossible to predict. Too many variables are to be taken into account (growth, change in style of play, approach to physical game that comes more around the age of 16 not 13-14, maturity, injuries, etc.)
Vasyunov is not bad at all. I see him more within the top 10-15 of the draft (although it becomes less and less meaningful and plausible without the NHL transfer agreement as the last 2 drafts proved it).
Anyway, if I had 2 cents (or kopeks), I would probably put them on Andrei Kuchin from CSKA Moscow. The guy has been head and shoulders above everybody in his age category (1991) every year.
Another guy I could put a couple of cents on would be Nikita Filatov from CSKA Moscow (1990) who has been dominating (although not as much as Kuchin).
In any case, neither of these players may amount to anything at the end of the day, but it could be interesting to see how they develop.
Not too sure about the Omsk guys(Avtaev, Baskakov, Papushkev or Berdnikov). Usually, the level of competition is not always the greatest in their region. Not excluded though, we will see. really not sure about Perezhogin (Viktor).
Guillaume said:I don't seen any in the 1988 or 1989 generations right now with the same level of skill and the same type of game. After that, it is impossible to predict. Too many variables are to be taken into account (growth, change in style of play, approach to physical game that comes more around the age of 16 not 13-14, maturity, injuries, etc.)
Vasyunov is not bad at all. I see him more within the top 10-15 of the draft (although it becomes less and less meaningful and plausible without the NHL transfer agreement as the last 2 drafts proved it).
Anyway, if I had 2 cents (or kopeks), I would probably put them on Andrei Kuchin from CSKA Moscow. The guy has been head and shoulders above everybody in his age category (1991) every year.
Another guy I could put a couple of cents on would be Nikita Filatov from CSKA Moscow (1990) who has been dominating (although not as much as Kuchin).
In any case, neither of these players may amount to anything at the end of the day, but it could be interesting to see how they develop.
Not too sure about the Omsk guys(Avtaev, Baskakov, Papushkev or Berdnikov). Usually, the level of competition is not always the greatest in their region. Not excluded though, we will see. really not sure about Perezhogin (Viktor).
Guillaume said:However, he has not always been dominating every year the same way Filatov has.
combine81 said:How did you come to that thought? Stats?
Fredrik said:So if you have seen someone live your opinion of them is always right? If someone else have another opinion they cannot have seen them live? That's the way I understand your comments.
combine81 said:No. Of course, it is just my opinion. We discuss and I just want to understand the way my opponent takes info about the player.
If stats - ok. I've got stats for these players and we can continue that way.
Fredrik said:Ok that's fine. I never meant to be rude or anything.
BTW, where do you find stats for these players?
Guillaume said:I tried to post but it logged me off for some reason. Anyway, no offense taken combine 81. no apology needed or anything.
Just to be clear, I do not pretend to be right. I have been wrong many times in the past (Balmochnykh, Khloptonov, to name a few) and I probably still will be in the future in some instances. I also have been right sometimes.
I am not saying that Filatov is the next Ovechkin, I am simply saying that at this point, it is impossible to really tell. Let’s do not forget that we are talking about kids here. As I mentioned earlier, it is totally impossible to predict how a kid will develop more than 2 years away from his draft day (including physically). As I said earlier in the thread, many variables come into play and can completely change a guy’s profile (growth, change in style of play, approach to physical game that comes more around the age of 16 not 13-14, maturity, injuries, etc.). Many guys at that age are not even 5’9…
At 14-15, you could not really predict for sure that Ovechkin would become the Ovechkin he is at 20. The guy was dominating, but the game played by 14-15 does not have the physical requirements you find later. Anyway, the guy was dominating on the ice and it was reflected stat-wise. The only tournament I can think of where he dominated on the ice and it was not reflected on the stats was the international tournament in Yaroslav in early 2001. Other than that, he dominated every tournament (domestic or international) on the ice (and in consequence stat-wise).
I rely on many things, and stats are one of them. Stats cannot be the only thing, that’s for sure. But you clearly cannot be at every corner of every Russian rink every week-end. Thus, stats are helpful too, especially for kids that age, (Russia championships, Russian championships of regions, regional championships, tournaments like Bezukladnikov and so on). They clearly are not the panacea either. And they change from one year to the other.
I am not saying Filatov is the next Ovechkin. I can’t really predict he will be or will not be (by the way, Kuchin was my main point, not Filatov). I am saying he has been dominating and getting great stats (especially at the Moscow championships) despite having teammates who were good but with whom he did not seem to have as much chemistry and may be talent as Ostapchuk-Loktionov-Selyanin (after Loktionov and Selyanin joined Spartak from Khimik). At the end, I have no real clue how good he will be. Ostapchuk who has been great so far might end up better. Same goes for Loktionov. Will they be the next Ovechkin (or even top 5s for that matter)? I don’t know. My assessment included their respective stats (and other things), over the past 3-4 years including the Moscow tournaments where Filatov has been the best scorer with a significant margin every time, with Selyanin, Ostapchuk and Loktionov being in the top 5-10 every year. I would be happy to hear another point of view. It is quite fine to have an opinion different than what I say.
MeffyuTGRest: Alexei Avtaev is dominating in the Ural region with so-so teammates on the 1991 Omsk team.
Guillaume said:I didn' tknow they tried to get Filatov. Intersting.
To the credit of Ostapchuk and Loktionov, they have fared well in the national tournaments whereas Filatov was alternating one great tournamnet with one decent tournament. I believe Loktionov was elected MVP of the recent russian championship of regions for the 1990 generation in Kazan despite scoring something like only 3 points.
The thing about the 1991 tournament in the US is interesting.