The "next generation"

[Rabid Ranger]

First, I'm just stating my opinion on the matter. There's no need to get bent out of shape about things.
I'll reiterate my point that the U.S. does not have any foreseeable future superstars. Obviously, this may change because were talking about prospects, but at this point in time they don't have any game breaking prospects that can compare to what Russia and Canada have. The fact is, more often than not, teams with these calibre players end up winning. It's an undeniable fact.

Second, I'll have to disagree with you saying that Pitkanen and Bouwmeester will not be future mega-stars. If these guys aren't, then what future D-men will be?
And, even if you think Zherdev is not in that superstar class, I find it hard to think of any GM that would take any American prospect over him (forwards and defensemen) - the same thing goes for Malkin. In fact, the top US prospect at forward right now (Parise) probably won't even be an NHL first liner, although he should be one of the best 2nd liners in the league.

Yes, the US is better in goal and on D. But the edge the U.S. holds in the defensive department pails in comparison to its shortcomings at forward.
And for this reason alone, I don't see the U.S. future as bright as Russia's.
JMHO

Typical. I'm getting "bent out of shape", but you're stating a firmly held opinion, Whatever pal. Listen, for the 100th time, I agree that the U.S. doesn't have a "superstar" calibre prospect at forward, or really any other position, unless you think a guy like DiPietro can rise above the fray. Personally, I think guys like Parise, Suter, Ryan Whitney, O'Sullivan etc are going to be elite NHL's. YMMV. If you don't think that's the case, fine, although I think yet again U.S. prospects are being underrated. As for the "mega-star" thing. I'm clearly much more conservative than you in throwing around that label. I don't think Zherdev, Bouwmeester, or Pitkanen fits that description. Again, YMMV. I just don't see the U.S. being inferior at forward nullifying it's overall superiority prospect wise.

 

[BlueAndWhite]

Personally, I think guys like Parise, Suter, Ryan Whitney, O'Sullivan etc are going to be elite NHL's.

As for the "mega-star" thing. I'm clearly much more conservative than you in throwing around that label. I don't think Zherdev, Bouwmeester, or Pitkanen fits that description..

So if Parise, Suter, Ryan Whitney and O'Sullivan are going to be elite NHL players, would you at least agree that Zherdev, Bouwmeester, Pitkanen project to be on the higher tier (whatever that may be) ?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

So if Parise, Suter, Ryan Whitney and O'Sullivan are going to be elite NHL players, would you at least agree that Zherdev, Bouwmeester, Pitkanen project to be on the higher tier (whatever that may be) ?

Sure, although I think it will take a few years to get the full sense of how far apart everyone is.

 

[Zine]

I just don't see the U.S. being inferior at forward nullifying it's overall superiority prospect wise.

Not to beat a dead horse, but how are the U.S. superior prospect wise without having a single franchise player?
Granted, if Parise, Suter, Brown, O'Sullivan, etc. reach their potential, they will be great players. But where are the next Modano's, Roenick's, Leetch's, Chelios's, Tkachuk's? Obviously anything can happen, but most experts would agree that the US has not been producing talent like it has in the past.

Russia has been producing these calibre players. And it's not like they don't have any depth either. Semin, Frolov, Grigorenko (if healthy), Chistov, Volchenkov, Grebeshkov would all be first and second line players if they were on the U.S. team.

 

[Postman]

Not to beat a dead horse, but how are the U.S. superior prospect wise without having a single franchise player?

That depends on what you think of DiPietro or Suter.

Not to mention, which has been argued, while Russia is superior to the U.S. at forward, the U.S. is superior at goal and defense. IMO, that balances them out to be pretty close in overall talent. A lot of posters here like to make it seem like forwards are everything, but forget that teams often build from the net out for the simple reason that goalies are more important come playoff/tourney time.

Russia has been producing these calibre players. And it's not like they don't have any depth either. Semin, Frolov, Grigorenko (if healthy), Chistov, Volchenkov, Grebeshkov would all be first and second line players if they were on the U.S. team.

Volchenkov nor Grebeshkov would not make the US' top, or even second pairing over the likes of Suter, Komisarek, Whitney, or Leopold, IMO.

 

[BlueAndWhite]

Volchenkov nor Grebeshkov would not make the US' top, or even second pairing over the likes of Suter, Komisarek, Whitney, or Leopold, IMO.

Disagree, esp. on Grebeshkov vs. Komisarek. ESPECIALLY.

 

[BlueAndWhite]

Granted, if Parise, Suter, Brown, O'Sullivan, etc. reach their potential, they will be great players. But where are the next Modano's, Roenick's, Leetch's, Chelios's, Tkachuk's? Obviously anything can happen, but most experts would agree that the US has not been producing talent like it has in the past.

Maybe not the calibre of a Modano or Leetch or Chelios. However, Roenick or a Tkachuk is definitely not out of the question for a guys like Parise, Schremp or Suter.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Not to beat a dead horse, but how are the U.S. superior prospect wise without having a single franchise player?
Granted, if Parise, Suter, Brown, O'Sullivan, etc. reach their potential, they will be great players. But where are the next Modano's, Roenick's, Leetch's, Chelios's, Tkachuk's? Obviously anything can happen, but most experts would agree that the US has not been producing talent like it has in the past.

Russia has been producing these calibre players. And it's not like they don't have any depth either. Semin, Frolov, Grigorenko (if healthy), Chistov, Volchenkov, Grebeshkov would all be first and second line players if they were on the U.S. team.

1) Most "experts" would agree that the crop of U.S. players between the ages of 24-28 is lacking. I don't deny that.

2) What you seem to be doing is underrating the generation of American players AFTER that, the under 23 crowd. IMO, that group of players can be every bit as good as those of the golden age of American hockey, which produced guys like Leetch, Modano, and Roenick.

3) I think you overrate Russian prospects. The guys you mentioned (with the exception of Frolov) would hardly be shoo-ins as 1st line or 1st pairing players on a U.S. team.


We seem to a have a serious gap in the way we look at prospects, so I don't know how much further we'll get. I appreciate your viewpoint, but in the best interest of not beating a dead horse I'm going to let this one go and wait and see how things turn out.

 

[Cayouche5]

Canada will have the most overall depth and quality for the forseeable future. IMO, the nation that will come closest in the next ten or so years is the U.S. followed by Russia. The other major hockey playing countries have stellar prospects, but not at all positions, and not in sheer numbers. I'll do a list of some American prospects to keep an eye out on:


Ryan Miller
Al Montoya
Patrick O'Sullivan
Dustin Brown
Rob Schremp
Ryan Suter
A.J. Thelen
Mark Stuart
Zach Parise

you can add Phil Kessel and Rick DiPietro is still there

 

[Zine]

1)We seem to a have a serious gap in the way we look at prospects, so I don't know how much further we'll get. I appreciate your viewpoint, but the best interest of not beating a dead horse I'm going to let this one go and wait and see how things turn out.

Likewise. Good discussion though.

 

[wilka91*]

In my opinion Russia will have more and more talented players in the upcoming 50 years : the reason for this is simple : the economy grows, the country will be able to build more and more rinks and more kids will play hockey.
I remember reading some facts about ice hockey 5 years ago, and I learned that Canada had over 1,100 rinks through the country. Russia had 87, 5 less than the Czech Republic! Can you believe this??? The Czechs had also more people playing hockey than Russia.
But Canada is far, far ahead of other countries, that's why they tend to produce more talent.