The Most Amazing (lesser known) Wayne Gretzky Stats/Facts

[NyQuil]

Points > Assists
Best overall player > best playmaker
Best playoff performer ever > best playmaker

Gretzky is all 3 of the above things (most points, best player, best playoffs). Naming an award for him on just assists seems cheap tbh as it doesn't recognize his overall greatness. They need to either pick a better award to name after him - or not name one.

I disagree with this rationale.

The same applied when people considered a Bobby Orr trophy for top offensive defenceman to be insulting somehow, even though he'll probably be the only defenceman in history to win the Art Ross trophy.

Considering how few trophies there are, and how many are already named for people, I'd think both individuals would be honoured.

It's the kind of recognition that will become far rarer than a jersey retirement.

Gretzky is the best playmaker of all-time and Orr is the best offensive defenceman of all-time.

 

[bobholly39]

I disagree with this rationale.

The same applied when people considered a Bobby Orr trophy for top offensive defenceman to be insulting somehow, even though he'll probably be the only defenceman in history to win the Art Ross trophy.

Considering how few trophies there are, and how many are already named for people, I'd think both individuals would be honoured.

It's the kind of recognition that will become far rarer than a jersey retirement.

Gretzky is the best playmaker of all-time and Orr is the best offensive defenceman of all-time.

I mean - they would certainly be honored. Gretzky especially is particularly humble (at least publicly - i'm sure privately he probably has a huge ego, and rightfully so).

But if you name an assist trophy, it becomes what, the.....6th best trophy a forward can win in a season? After all of ross, hart, rocket, smythe, lindsay...maybe Selke too? I just feel he's the best ever - and if you name a trophy after him, it needs to be one that recognizes the best (right now, any of the Ross, Hart, Lindsay or Smythe are in that tier 1 group).

Somehow the Orr for best offensive defenseman award seems less offensive for me. Because in Gretzky's case - it's not even best offense - it's only a subset of offense with the assists. It'd be akin to naming a "most assists trophy for defenseman" award after Orr.

You could get creative and have an end of season award that takes into account the best overall player - Season + Playoffs (maybe even + International tournament in an olympic/world cup year), and name that after Gretzky. So for this past season, it would be maybe....Kucherov? Hedman? Drai didn't do enough in playoffs...maybe Mack? That would be quite a prestigious award. Might be somewhat redundant though, with all the other trophies

 

[NyQuil]

But if you name an assist trophy, it becomes what, the.....6th best trophy a forward can win in a season? After all of ross, hart, rocket, smythe, lindsay...maybe Selke too? I just feel he's the best ever - and if you name a trophy after him, it needs to be one that recognizes the best (right now, any of the Ross, Hart, Lindsay or Smythe are in that tier 1 group).

Part of what I like about an assist trophy is that you may see some unexpected names on it - potentially an offensive defenceman, or a specialist like Craig Janney or Adam Oates.

You could get creative and have an end of season award that takes into account the best overall player - Season + Playoffs (maybe even + International tournament in an olympic/world cup year), and name that after Gretzky. So for this past season, it would be maybe....Kucherov? Hedman? Drai didn't do enough in playoffs...maybe Mack? That would be quite a prestigious award. Might be somewhat redundant though, with all the other trophies

It's an interesting idea (along the lines of the Ballon d'Or) but I suspect there would be a lot of debate as to what should factor in the most (e.g. NHL season vs. Playoffs vs. International Play) and whether it's possible for a non-NHLer to win.

A funny situation would be someone like Connor McDavid winning the Art Ross, not making the playoffs, and then leading the World Championships in scoring and MVP honours to a gold medal win.

How does that compare against someone who wins the Cup?

I'll give you props for thinking of something different.

 

[bobholly39]

Part of what I like about an assist trophy is that you may see some unexpected names on it - potentially an offensive defenceman, or a specialist like Craig Janney or Adam Oates.

Yeah there's nothing wrong with an assist trophy per se. It's a good concept, especially with the bigger league and already the Rocket trophy, makes sense. I just don't want it named after Gretzky for reasons stated.

 

[NyQuil]

Yeah there's nothing wrong with an assist trophy per se. It's a good concept, especially with the bigger league and already the Rocket trophy, makes sense. I just don't want it named after Gretzky for reasons stated.

If there was an assist trophy and it WASN'T named after Gretzky, you'd see a lot of people scratching their heads.

 

[MadLuke]

Yeah there's nothing wrong with an assist trophy per se. It's a good concept, especially with the bigger league and already the Rocket trophy, makes sense. I just don't want it named after Gretzky for reasons stated.

The Ted Lindsay award could have been a good candidate for the Gretzky I imagine, specially that the renaming occurred well post is retirement in 2010.

An other argument could be made for no recent name on trophies, but they made a Messier award already.

 

[bobholly39]

If there was an assist trophy and it WASN'T named after Gretzky, you'd see a lot of people scratching their heads.

I know. You're 100% right. The outcry would be ridiculous.

I still think it doesn't do him justice to name the 9th or 10th most prestigious award in a season after him.

 

[frisco]

1,345: Amount of Gretzky threads started on HF Boards.

My Best-Carey

 

[McGuillicuddy]

You could get creative and have an end of season award that takes into account the best overall player - Season + Playoffs (maybe even + International tournament in an olympic/world cup year), and name that after Gretzky. So for this past season, it would be maybe....Kucherov? Hedman? Drai didn't do enough in playoffs...maybe Mack? That would be quite a prestigious award. Might be somewhat redundant though, with all the other trophies

That's an interesting idea. So it would be a trophy for the best overall performance in all of the regular season, playoffs, and any NHL-sanctioned tournaments (Olympics, World Cup) that occurred that season. Probably exclude the AS game . I like it. Something to think on.

 

[bobholly39]

1,345: Amount of Gretzky threads started on HF Boards.

My Best-Carey

Pfft. That's not even top 5. Have you met Crosby? Or hell - Auston Matthews =)

 

[Big Phil]

Here is something interesting, do people realize that in 1987 Gretzky probably could have scored 200 points had he wanted to. He had 181 with 6 games left and had two points in his final 6 games for 183. No kidding, look it up. Here is my theory on that. With 1986 still fresh in their memory my guess is Gretzky was intentionally on cruise control in these last few games. Getting 200 points didn't matter as much as making sure 1986 wasn't repeated and there is a fresh Gretzky for the postseason, although ironically he still had a great series in 1986 vs. Calgary. So maybe Sather played a part in letting him coast a bit at the end. Who knows. That wasn't something Gretzky did by any means but maybe the thought of another Cup was tantalizing. When you win the scoring title by as many points as he did year after year I suppose he may have been bored or sick of it by 1987.

Anyway, I guess what I am saying is that he was easily good enough to get 19 points in the final 6 games if he focused on it. I don't doubt in that season alone he had a 19 point surge over 6 games, but what is incredible is that Gretzky didn't hit 200 points because he seemingly didn't want to. You have to be pretty good for that.

 

[95Tal]

Here is something interesting, do people realize that in 1987 Gretzky probably could have scored 200 points had he wanted to. He had 181 with 6 games left and had two points in his final 6 games for 183.

The Oilers had a long east-coast road-trip (five games in seven days) at the end of the season that year, and Wayne and the team looked pretty tired in the Sabres game I watched recently, which was their 77th game and last of the trip. That night Gretzky went pointless for the third consecutive game, which was practically unheard of. Probably a combination of fatigue and giving the guy a break here and there ahead of the playoffs as you mentioned. Still, in watching those old games it's amazing how many times he set people up for great chances, only to see them miss!

 

[The Panther]

You're both right (above), I think. Sather's narrative for 1986-87 was: (a) improve team defence, and (b) let Gretzky rest if he needs to... except against Calgary, which was now enemy #1.

The Oilers ended up finishing 1st overall that season, but it wasn't easy. Through much of the first 1/3 of the year, they were seen as a disappointment, vying with Winnipeg in the Smythe and struggling to win games on the road. They went 10-8-1 in the first month and a half, and 14-10-1 in the first 25. Not bad, but way off their pace of a year previously. It was the hangover from the loss to Calgary. Not only that, but Coffey, Anderson, and Kurri were all struggling by their standards.

If you've seen the Boys on the Bus documentary, it shows the team coming back to the locker room after a home-ice overtime loss to lowly Chicago. That was game 25, and was sort-of the peak of their early-season blues. They're all pissed, and the room is silent. (After that, they went 21-5-3 in the next 29 games.) Anyway, in the first half of the season, Gretzky very much carried the team. He was superb in the first half, with 40 goals in the first 39 games, and 48 goals in the first 49 games. Around mid-season, Jari Kurri (who apparently got his first tongue-lashing from Sather around this time) started getting hot, meaning Wayne started passing instead of shooting more. Wayne scored only 1 goal in the last eight games of the season, and then only 5 in the 21 playoff games.

But yeah, those last games of the season are odd. Wayne not only got a measly 1 goal and 1 assist in those last five games (and then sat out the last game of the season), he also went -8 in the last four games of the season -- having been +77 in the first 74. I think we can assume he was kind of phoning it in, just resting up for the playoffs. That said, you wonder why he didn't sit out more than 1 game. Gretzky did say publicly (I think, after the season was over) that he was physically tired, for the first time in his career, in the latter half of 1986-87.

 

[tazzy19]

In 1986/87, Gretzky led the NHL in goals while simultaneously leading the NHL in points with his assists alone. Kind of like what he did in his overall career. To lead the NHL in goals while also leading the NHL in assists is one thing. But to take away all those lead leading goals and still lead the NHL in points with your assists alone is absolute craziness. I believe he did it another season as well.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Scoring points in 77 of 80 games (1985-86) is a good one, too.

While his team has the fewest power play opportunities in the entire league.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Here is something interesting, do people realize that in 1987 Gretzky probably could have scored 200 points had he wanted to. He had 181 with 6 games left and had two points in his final 6 games for 183. No kidding, look it up. Here is my theory on that. With 1986 still fresh in their memory my guess is Gretzky was intentionally on cruise control in these last few games. Getting 200 points didn't matter as much as making sure 1986 wasn't repeated and there is a fresh Gretzky for the postseason, although ironically he still had a great series in 1986 vs. Calgary. So maybe Sather played a part in letting him coast a bit at the end. Who knows. That wasn't something Gretzky did by any means but maybe the thought of another Cup was tantalizing. When you win the scoring title by as many points as he did year after year I suppose he may have been bored or sick of it by 1987.

Anyway, I guess what I am saying is that he was easily good enough to get 19 points in the final 6 games if he focused on it. I don't doubt in that season alone he had a 19 point surge over 6 games, but what is incredible is that Gretzky didn't hit 200 points because he seemingly didn't want to. You have to be pretty good for that.

Seems pretty farfetched

 

[FerrisRox]

Seems pretty farfetched

Extremely far fetched.

Particularly the part where "if he wanted to" he could have just gone out and averaged three points a game at the end of a long gruelling season.

 

[Big Phil]

Seems pretty farfetched

I doubt it. I am not saying he is a lock to do this. But keep in mind this is Wayne Gretzky in his prime we are talking about. In 1986 he set out to average two assists per game in the beginning of the year and he did it with 163. Can a 19 point run over 6 games be that unusual for him? Just for kicks I counted at least 3-4 times in the 1987 season alone that he had at least 19 points in a 6 game span. Also, his first 4 playoff games he had 15 points. My guess is that he took his foot off the pedal at the end of the year with more of an eye on the playoffs and redeeming the 1986 loss. Being healthy probably mattered more. 6 games left with 181 points and then only getting two out of 5 games and then sitting out the last game? It is likely he was playing less if I were to guess although there aren't ice time stats back then.

The final 5 games he played the Oilers wee 2-2-1 and Gretzky himself was a combined -6 with two points. Yeah, it is hardly a stretch to think he couldn't have made a specific aim to get 200 points again and then focused on that and did it. Of his final 5 games it was against Boston, Winnipeg, Toronto, Buffalo and Calgary. Quite possible.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

The Ted Lindsay award could have been a good candidate for the Gretzky I imagine, specially that the renaming occurred well post is retirement in 2010.

I think it’s very nice that the players’ trophy was named after Ted Lindsay.

Edit: And I just feel “meh” concerning naming an award after Gretzky. He will never be forgotten, his name’s on dozens of virtually unbreakable records and #99 is retired league wide. If we’re renaming awards after players, I think there are much better options in the history of the game. If for instance the Hart was renamed after a player, I think Gretzky would be delighted with his childhood hero Gordie Howe being honored.

 

[VanIslander]

Is Gretzky a good penalty killer?

Well, he is the NHL all-time leader in shorthanded goals and points. Only Messier is in the same zip code.

A smallish non-physical passer can dominate a penalty kill through POSITIONING, STICKHANDLING, PUCKHANDLING and overall HOCKEY SENSE.

The most egregious conflation of Selke play with penalty kill skill is seen with Kurri vs. Gretzky.

Wayne may not knock guys off the puck but he positions himself to intercept the pass and feed the transition.

 

[TheGuiminator]

In Gretzky's last full calendar year of his career (1998), he finished 1st in assists & 2nd in points behind peak Jagr.

1998 Calendar Year	PTS	G	A	GP	PPG
1. Jagr	96	28	68	72	1.33
2. Gretzky	91	19	72	75	1,21
3. Leclair	81	43	38	78	1,04

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Hobnobs]

Gretzky would definitely be seen in an even better light if he had never played after being Sutered.

Players like Orr / Lemieux / Forsberg get romanticized a lot because they were never really seen fading away outside of their prime years..

It's like the 27 club for musicians.. better to burn out than to fade away..

I don't think Forsberg gets romanticized a lot. At least not here. Most of the time I see the "He was a great player BUT..."-argument thrown around him. Orr certainly does as he is basically Jesus around here while Lemieux is a mixed bag with mostly romanticizing.

 

[VanIslander]

Gretzky as a 37 year old led the NHL with the most assists (more than any teammate had points!), on a team with NO ONE top-47 in goals scored!!!

Let that sink in. .... ....

That means he DISTRIBUTED the puck, not fed a sniper. Indeed, I recall he did just that.

We have seen nothing of his ilk since.

(Lemieux & Oates could've dominated in terms of passing in other eras, but not Gretz's. Wayne is the greatest passer ever, hands down; all other chatter: shut the **** up!)

Edit: the swear filter works.

 

[Iapyi]

Some contrarians who pretend Gretzky isn't the best player of time and try to pretend he got lucky for being in a higher scoring league miss the reality that the league was higher scoring because of him, not the other way around.

Pfft. That's not even top 5. Have you met Crosby? Or hell - Auston Matthews =)

The Ovechkin threads are probably the most is my guess. It's nauseating.

 

[MadLuke]

Some contrarians who pretend Gretzky isn't the best player of time and try to pretend he got lucky for being in a higher scoring league miss the reality that the league was higher scoring because of him, not the other way around.

That sound suspicious
Gretzky rookie season was in 79-80, if he changed the league and players mentality after just 3 season (around 82) that would be fast.

30	1990-91	NHL	840	3.46	0.89	4.57	19.44	80.56	29.7	26.4	.886	3.35
31	1989-90	NHL	840	3.68	0.95	4.58	20.77	79.23	30.2	26.6	.881	3.56
32	1988-89	NHL	840	3.74	1.06	5.04	20.99	79.01	30.3	26.6	.879	3.63
33	1987-88	NHL	840	3.71	1.11	5.46	20.29	79.71	30.4	26.8	.880	3.62
34	1986-87	NHL	840	3.67	0.90	4.30	20.98	79.02	29.9	26.3	.880	3.56
35	1985-86	NHL	840	3.97	1.02	4.62	22.08	77.92	31.0	27.1	.874	3.87
36	1984-85	NHL	840	3.89	0.89	4.01	22.20	77.80	30.5	26.7	.875	3.79
37	1983-84	NHL	840	3.94	0.92	4.20	21.91	78.09	30.5	26.7	.873	3.84
38	1982-83	NHL	840	3.86	0.89	3.87	22.92	77.08	30.5	26.7	.875	3.80
39	1981-82	NHL	840	4.01	0.91	4.00	22.85	77.15	31.1	27.1	.873	3.95
40	1980-81	NHL	840	3.84	0.96	4.25	22.53	77.47	30.4	26.7	.876	3.78
Rk	Season	Lg	GP	G	PP	PPO	PP%	PK%	SA	SV	SV%	GAA
41	1979-80	NHL	840	3.51	0.77	3.50	21.86	78.14	29.3	25.9	.882	3.46
42	1978-79	NHL	680	3.50	0.77	3.38	22.72	77.28	29.3	25.9	.883	3.45
43	1977-78	NHL	720	3.30	0.67	3.19	21.15	78.85	29.2	26.0	.889	3.26
44	1976-77	NHL	720	3.32	0.66	3.31	19.83	80.17	30.0	26.7	.891	3.28
45	1975-76	NHL	720	3.41	0.82	4.01	20.54	79.46	30.6	27.2	.890	3.37
46	1974-75	NHL	720	3.43	0.80	3.95	20.33	79.67	30.7	27.4	.890	3.38
47	1973-74	NHL	624	3.20	0.63	3.30	19.09	80.91	30.3	27.2	.896	3.16
48	1972-73	NHL	624	3.28	0.63	3.34	18.71	81.29	31.1	27.8	.896	3.24
49	1971-72	NHL	546	3.07	0.67	3.45	19.38	80.62	30.9	27.9	.903	3.02
50	1970-71	NHL	546	3.12	0.69	3.66	18.83	81.17	31.8	28.8	.903	3.09
51	1969-70	NHL	456	2.90	0.73	3.73	19.47	80.53	32.6	29.8	.912	2.88
52	1968-69	NHL	456	2.98	0.60	3.47	17.40	82.60	32.1	29.2	.908	2.95
53	1967-68	NHL	444	2.79	0.55	3.28	16.86	83.14	30.4	27.6	.910	2.7

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Scoring was already creeping up quite a lot before Gretzky arrival and already in 80-81 it reached all time high and 81-82 is the offensive peak of the nhl post WW2.

Did Gretzky and the oilers create a model other tried to mimic after they won the cups with it in 83-84, I would imagine that is common for very successful team to influence the rest, but league scoring went down after the Oilers started winning, not up.

Goaltender save percentage was all time low, they exploded the amount of teams from 6 in 1967 to 21 in 1981, chance are good scoring would have been very high regardless, maybe it would have stayed around 3.85 like before Gretzky had any impact without going higher, but that would have still have been the highest scoring era.