charliolemieux
rsTmf
- Apr 1, 2010
- 9,715
- 53
Stanley Cup winning team? Sure. Star laden? Hardly.
Vezina winning goalie
Norris winning Captain
Selke Winning Center
BEst Power Forward in the game.
THey may not be "Stars" but Holy crap batman!
Stanley Cup winning team? Sure. Star laden? Hardly.
Oh, so he's playing sheltered minutes as a 2nd line winger, not even on the 1st line facing the opposition's best? I see.
That doesn't change the fact that Toews and Thornton are better players than Seguin, got it? I don't understand the hate people heave at Kessel because of the trade. Just because Seguin was drafted at #2 doesn't mean he's an automatic franchise player or better than Kessel -- heck David Legwand was drafted #2 overall.
Kadri was in the AHL because Wilson and Burke thought it was best for his development, though I'm sure he would have given Seguin's 22 pt rookie campaign a run for the money had he been given the chance to play with the Leafs much earlier. Burke developed Bobby Ryan the same way.
Not all drafts are the same, you have to look at a player for what they are, how they were developed and how they play, and right now Kadri (though not much older and some called a bust) is playing better than Seguin, who is supposed to be some kind of an elite franchise centre...but not playing centre. The irony.
You know what is absurd? The continual hate against Kessel!
I'm not a fan of the Kessal trade But to be fair to him powerplay doesn't count towards plus minus and he has 7 of his 16 points on the Pp.Either way it's good for the buds
Uh... except for the fact that Kessel is still a minus player.
Even on a team that scores more goals than it allows.
So when Kessel is on the ice, it is more likely the OTHER team will score, not the leafs.
How could that possibly be spun into a postitive?
Everyone has an opinion pal. Do you love everyone on the Leafs?
And Seguin is leading his entire elite cup contending team in +/-.
While Kessel is somewhere near 20th on his team.
The Kessel apocalypse was just such a bad trade. Such a ridiculous and humiliating trade.
It will be Burkes legacy. A pathetic, disgusting trade.
Either way it's good for the buds?
Uh... except for the fact that Kessel is still a minus player.
Even on a team that scores more goals than it allows.
So when Kessel is on the ice, it is more likely the OTHER team will score, not the leafs.
How could that possibly be spun into a postitive?
Kessel is a 7 year veteran.
Seguin is a 3rd year 21 year old player.
Yet it's STILL arguable which is RIGHT NOW the better player.
Seguin is leading his star laden team in plus/minus and is unquestionably better defensively.
Kessel is showcasing his usual pathetic plus minus... even with a team that scores more goals than they allow.
Both have a lack luster 4 goals.
Kessel has more assists... but has first line minutes and first line powerplay time.
It's arguable who is better RIGHT NOW. Let alone considering that Seguin is still growing... while Kessel has more than likely reached his prime.
It's a PATHETIC trade just when comparing Seguin to Kessel.
When you add in Hamilton, it becomes flat out humiliating.,
Want to know who else is a minus player on a team that scores more goals than it allows? Malkin.
And Seguin is leading his entire elite cup contending team in +/-.
While Kessel is somewhere near 20th on his team.
The Kessel apocalypse was just such a bad trade. Such a ridiculous and humiliating trade.
It will be Burkes legacy. A pathetic, disgusting trade.
I agree. What kinda moronic GM trades a 21 year old budding star for draft picks?
A disgusting trade indeed.
Seguin has more to prove as a player if you think he's better than Kessel. And what do you say about Kessel's +23 as a less matured and developed 21 year old playing with a worse Bruins' team? So please, don't use plus/minus stats to justify that Seguin is a better player -- that entire Bruins' team under which Seguin plays is a much better defensive team than the Leafs under Wilson for the majority of Kessel's time here. Now under Carlyle, it's only beginning to turn around and we can't even say the Leafs are definitely making the playoffs. Our goal-tending hasn't stabilized for how many years now? And the same guys crapping all over our #1 D Phaneuf's defensive liabilities are some of the same ones crapping all over Kessel's plus/minus stats. You wanna praise Seguin's plus/minus? Thank Chara, Thomas, Rask, Bergeron, etc..
Plus/minus works best when comparing to the players own team.
Kessel has one of the worst +/-'s of all the leafs forwards.
The other forwards on the leafs (who have MUCH higher +/-'s) have the EXACT same goalies behind them, the EXACT same defensemen behind them, under the EXACT same coaching system.
Yet some of them are as high as +13, while Kessel is in the negatives.
Similarly, the other forwards on Boston have the EXACT same goalie, defensemen, and system as Tyler Seguin, but Seguin still has the highest +/- on the entire star laden ****ing team.
Even when Kessel had that one lucky year with a high plus minus on the star laden Bruins team, it still was mediocre WHEN COMPARED TO THE REST OF HIS TEAM!!!!
Nobody is saying that plus/minus is a 'be all end all' statistic.
But combined with observation of Kessel's pathetic defensive effort, it's pretty safe to say that that he doesn't play a complete game... and it reflects often in the amount of goals that go in against the leafs when Kessel is on the ice.
Hamilton and Seguin together have 7 goals and 27 points compared to Kessel's 4 goals and 15 points.
AND THAT'S COMPARING A ROOKIE AND 3RD YEAR PLAYER TO A 7 ****ING YEAR VETERAN!!!!!!
Good ****ING CHRIST is Burke ever a ****ing idiot. It's such a disastrous ****ing trade.
I just can't ****ing take it anymore.
Seguin has more to prove as a player if you think he's better than Kessel. And what do you say about Kessel's +23 as a less matured and developed 21 year old playing with a worse Bruins' team? So please, don't use plus/minus stats to justify that Seguin is a better player -- that entire Bruins' team under which Seguin plays is a much better defensive team than the Leafs under Wilson for the majority of Kessel's time here. Now under Carlyle, it's only beginning to turn around and we can't even say the Leafs are definitely making the playoffs. Our goal-tending hasn't stabilized for how many years now? And the same guys crapping all over our #1 D Phaneuf's defensive liabilities are some of the same ones crapping all over Kessel's plus/minus stats. You wanna praise Seguin's plus/minus? Thank Chara, Thomas, Rask, Bergeron, etc..
I'm going to have to add to your point here because I agree with what you're saying.
I also think you have to add into account that you don't get plus/minus when you are on the power play. That being said, you would expect his goal or point total to be a bit higher and could live with a lower plus/minus if he was getting more from that aspect. In comparison, Kadri has 4 power play goals and Kessel only has 2 in a lot more time.
I think that you can be all over Kessel's game in the media because the only reason that you brought him in here was to score. He's playing a better 200 foot game than he was, yes, but he's not going to fight, check or win you a crucial draw. His only job is to score and if he's not doing that, then he's not doing his role.
But then every player in the NHL would get their PP scores tabulated as well ... so I doubt his +/- is impacted that greatly overall.
Well the trade is what it is, hard to still get upset about the trade itself.
I only personally get annoyed when I see some Leafs fans still defending the trade, still trying to find the smallest scraps of information they can use to defend the trade. I honestly cant tell if theyre just being trolls, because I cannot believe that any semi-rational person could look at that trade and say that Toronto won the trade or that it was a good move.
Kessel is what he is, a highly skilled player, one of the best shots in the game. But has possibly the most incomplete game out of any "star" player in the entire league.
I agree. What kinda moronic GM trades a 21 year old budding star for draft picks?
A disgusting trade indeed.