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HF Habs: The Martin St Louis Thread

Maurice doesn't need to change, its SMarty that has to.

We can even use our 2021 run where in the post game interviews after every game the team looked like it came out of a bar fight with Hells Angels. We didn't have enough talent to finish the job but otherwise...we were in a war all the way to the cup final.
Agreed, we had a lot of grit, size and leadership, I don't think that's on the coaching, management needs to bring in a bunch of those players as well since we've traded almost all of them.

Weber, Chiarot, Edmundson, Perry, Staal. Can't expect our young players to have that kind of physical impact so early in their careers.

If anything this is my biggest gripe with management, they're so afraid of picking up players on contracts that will block one of their young players. All you need to do is tell them that when they show you they are ready for the big show, you will make place for them. Let them marinate in the AHL and become leaders.
 
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Agreed, we had a lot of grit, size and leadership, I don't think that's on the coaching, management needs to bring in a bunch of those players as well since we've traded almost all of them.

Weber, Chiarot, Edmundson, Perry, Staal. Can't expect our young players to have that kind of physical impact so early in their careers.

If anything this is my biggest gripe with management, they're so afraid of picking up players on contracts that will block one of their young players. All you need to do is tell them that when they show you they are ready for the big show, you will make place for them. Let them marinate in the AHL and become leaders.
We have some already in the bigs or the AHL.

X is tougher then any defenseman we had in 2021.

We have Guhle who is leading by example and while not Weber level, pretty good for a 22 year old.

We have LX and Davidson marinating as a meaner version of Perry.

We have M getting a computer upgrade.

They may not be as seasoned as the 2021 group, they aren't made of candy either.
 
Maurice doesn't need to change, its SMarty that has to.

We can even use our 2021 run where in the post game interviews after every game the team looked like it came out of a bar fight with Hells Angels. We didn't have enough talent to finish the job but otherwise...we were in a war all the way to the cup final.

We have some already in the bigs or the AHL.

X is tougher then any defenseman we had in 2021.

We have Guhle who is leading by example and while not Weber level, pretty good for a 22 year old.

We have LX and Davidson marinating as a meaner version of Perry.

We have M getting a computer upgrade.

They may not be as seasoned as the 2021 group, they aren't made of candy either.
Yeah but it's mostly the experience they are lacking, those guys were all 27yrs or older when they contributed here.

How to toe the line without punishing the team, this is something they had learned before coming here.
 
Maurice hasn't changed. He didn't just turn into something else after joining florida almost 30 years into his nhl coaching career.

It's a matter of being in the right place at the right time.

Do you remember the motto that the jets had plastered in their dressing room during their playoff against the habs? It was something like: hunt and kill. It's the same guy, and the Panthers embody his message.
Hunt Kill Attack

I think that's what it was at least. Ridiculous stuff.
 
He has a lot to learn and yea we didn't have the best roster but the fact is, his concept of the game of putting physically aside and his stubornness, I don't know if it's fixable. Even the least knowledgeable hockey person on the planet knew the Caps would be head hunting at the first game. But he waited the third game to insert Jack and it was too late. And last game there was ZERO pushback physically. Very disappointing.
still can't believe we went with an unexperianced coach for such a deep rebuild.when i see the coaching needed for the playoffs it's mind blowing and i can't stand one of the opinions out there that he was brought in to develop then we would look for a more seasoned coach, If you're gonna build a team It should be built around the coach that will take them to the ultimate goal if possible .
 
still can't believe we went with an unexperianced coach for such a deep rebuild.when i see the coaching needed for the playoffs it's mind blowing and i can't stand one of the opinions out there that he was brought in to develop then we would look for a more seasoned coach, If you're gonna build a team It should be built around the coach that will take them to the ultimate goal if possible .

Personally I didn't mind a young coach with a goal to develop because since we are in a rebuild, you know you're not gonna win a lot of games. So all you have to do is give them advices to form them into players. Since he is younger, he may have more affinity with them. And veteran coaches tend to want to win now.

But now that we have the growth of many guys and it's time to win, I would be up for hiring a Bob Hartley for assistant or just made make the coach. We need a legit guy. Not fooling around now. Esp. if we get some guys this summer. I esp. like what he said about how he would use Xhekaj.
 
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Personally I didn't mind a young coach with a goal to develop because since we are in a rebuild, you know you're not gonna win a lot of games. So all you have to do is give them advices to form them into players. Since he is younger, he may have more affinity with them. And veteran coaches tend to want to win now.

But now that we have the growth of many guys and it's time to win, I would be up for hiring a Bob Hartley for assistant or just made make the coach. We need a legit guy. Not fooling around now. Esp. if we get some guys this summer. I esp. like what he said about how he would use Xhekaj.
MSL hired Roger Grillo for that reason, he's the man behind the success of the US national team because he was in charge of development. Hartley would be cool, tho.
 
Personally I didn't mind a young coach with a goal to develop because since we are in a rebuild, you know you're not gonna win a lot of games. So all you have to do is give them advices to form them into players. Since he is younger, he may have more affinity with them. And veteran coaches tend to want to win now.

But now that we have the growth of many guys and it's time to win, I would be up for hiring a Bob Hartley for assistant or just made make the coach. We need a legit guy. Not fooling around now. Esp. if we get some guys this summer. I esp. like what he said about how he would use Xhekaj.
We’ve improved dramatically every year MSL has been here. Almost all our prospects have improved by leaps and bounds. We overachieved this year and made the playoffs beyond anyone’s expectations. We were in almost every game in the series bs Washington.

We already have a legit guy.

Xhejac is a 6th defenseman. People need to get over this. Him not being in the lineup for two games has some people losing their minds…. It’s crazy. We need to get a new coach so he’ll be Xhejac? Really? Let me tell you something, there’s no guarantee any coach would’ve played him.

I like X. Agree he should’ve been in the lineup from the beginning. But that’s not why we lost the series.
 
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We’ve improved dramatically every year MSL has been here. Almost all our prospects have improved by leaps and bounds. We overachieved this year and made the playoffs beyond anyone’s expectations. We were in almost every game in the series bs Washington.

We already have a legit guy.

Xhejac is a 6th defenseman. People need to get over this. Him not being in the lineup for two games has some people losing their minds…. It’s crazy. We need to get a new coach so he’ll be Xhejac? Really? Let me tell you something, there’s no guarantee any coach would’ve played him.

I like X. Agree he should’ve been in the lineup from the beginning. But that’s not why we lost the series.

People also need to keep in mind Xhekaj has already managed to play in 165 games mostly as a 21-23 year old which is impressive/rare for an undrafted D.. not to mention he missed a key full year of development due to COVID.

Chris Tanev who went undrafted didn't become a NHL regular until he was 24 while another undrafted D like Darren Raddysh and Jalen Chatfield didn't become a regulars until their late 20s.
 
We have some already in the bigs or the AHL.

X is tougher then any defenseman we had in 2021.

We have Guhle who is leading by example and while not Weber level, pretty good for a 22 year old.

We have LX and Davidson marinating as a meaner version of Perry.

We have M getting a computer upgrade.

They may not be as seasoned as the 2021 group, they aren't made of candy either.

We have exited the pure "accumulation phase" of our rebuild in my opinion and now need to switch our focus to trying to target/acquire players that would help us "even-out" our roster and future core.

Basically, we're at the "quality over quantity, with an emphasis on size" part of our rebuild.

As such, I think you are right in that we need more toughness/grit. But where we differ is that I personally believe that we need said grit where it counts; in the top-6 and on the first two pairs of the defense.

The problem with our current "mix" of roster players is that aside from Slafkovsky on our top line and Guhle on the second pair, we have exactly zero players currently in our top-6 or top-2 pairs that I would consider to be "physical players" that will dig pucks out of corners, battle hard in front of the net, and manage to turn-out opportunities from 50/50 puck battles.

I agree that we have some possible solutions in the AHL right now with Xhekaj, Reinbacher, Mailloux, Tuch, Davidson, Beck, and such, but they are young and will necessitate a couple of seasons before they're anywhere near ready to be impactful players on our team.

And the thing is that, all of the guys I mentioned are either uncertain quantities (Mailloux because of defensive woes, Reinbacher because of mounting injuries) or tracking to be third or fourth-liners rather than the top-of-the-lineup players with grit that we sorely need.

The obvious conclusion then starts appearing; we need more skill overall to go with our core (Suzuki, Hutson, Demidov, Slafkovsky, Caufield, Guhle, Fowler if he develops), but our biggest need are players with top-6 skill AND size/physicality since we don't have many in our current lineup and/or prospect pool.

Which is why I would target guys with strong physical attributes in addition to skill/upside in this draft (Mrtka, Martin, Cootes, Aitcheson, Smith, Nesbitt, McQueen if he falls, etc.), trading-up if need be, as well as using picks throughout the draft to target players with both good upside and physical potential/play (Limatov, Genborg, Vansaghi, etc.).

I would also look to acquire/sign at least one defenseman that would more-or-less fit with our core's age and bring a steady defensive presence and physical play for our top-2 pairings.

Similarly, I would try to acquire either a top-6 C with grit that fits our core's age window, or a winger if prices on Cs were too prohibitive.

A guy like JJ Peterka would be great to have as although he isn't the biggest he can grind, is fast, a talented top-6 forward in his own right, and goes to the corners to retrieve pucks and battles with great consistency.

Guys like Samoskevich and Jack Quinn would be "budget options" compared to Peterka, but they both definitely have top-6 skill and at least some amount of sandpaper though they themselves wouldn't be what I'd call "physical players" either.

Anyways, MSL will have his word to say about the players we acquire, and we ARE trending in the right direction, but our team is still far from being "established" and ready to compete now.
 
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We have exited the pure "accumulation phase" of our rebuild in my opinion and now need to switch our focus to trying to target/acquire players that would help us "even-out" our roster and future core.

As such, I think you are right in that we need more toughness/grit. But where we differ is that I personally believe that we need said grit where it counts; in the top-6 and on the first two pairs of the defense.

Aside from Slafkovsky on our top line and Guhle on the second pair, we have exactly zero players currently in our top-6 or top-2 pairs that I would consider to be "physical players".

I agree that we have some possible solutions in the AHL right now with Xhekaj, Reinbacher, Mailloux, Tuch, Davidson, Beck, and such, but they are young and will necessitate a couple of seasons before they're anywhere near ready to be impactful players on our team.

And the thing is that, aside from Reinbacher, the guys I mentioned are either uncertain quantities (Mailloux) or tracking to be third or fourth-liners rather than the top-of-the-lineup players with grit that we sorely need.

The obvious conclusion then starts appearing; we need more skill overall to go with our core, but our biggest need are players with top-6 skill AND size/physicality since we don't have many in our current lineup and/or prospect pool.

Which is why I would target guys with strong physical attributes in addition to skill/upside in this draft (Mrtka, Martin, Cootes, Aitcheson, Smith, Nesbitt, McQueen if he falls, etc.), trading-up if need be, as well as using picks throughout the draft to target players with both good upside and physical potential (Limatov, Genborg, Vansaghi, etc.).

I would also look to acquire at least one defenseman that would more-or-less fit with our
core's age and bring a steady defensive presence and physical play for our top-2 pairings.

Similarly, I would try to acquire either a top-6 C with grit that fits our core's age window, or a winger if prices on Cs were too prohibitive.

A guy like JJ Peterka would be great to have as although he isn't the biggest he can grind, is fast, a talented top-6 forward in his own right, and goes to the corners to retrieve pucks and battles with great consistency.

Guys like Samoskevich and Jack Quinn would be "budget options" compared to Peterka, but they both definitely have top-6 skill and at least some amount of sandpaper though they themselves wouldn't be what I'd call "physical players" either.

Anyways, MSL will have his word to say about the players we acquire, and we ARE trending in the right direction, but our team is still far from being "established" and ready to compete now.
It's going to be very expensive to trade for those skilled AND tough players. Best to sign some and obviously far better to grow then in the AHL.

The players you mention in Laval are untouchable in my books. You are not going to get get them through trades so why the hell would anyone want to trade them away?

IF those 5-6 players fully develop to top 6 defenseman and mid 6 forwards, we have the nucleus of a tough team. Add some vets and we are heading in the right direction.

My only caveat is will MSL grow into the demanding, Maurice type of coach that embraces toughness? Or stay the same where he benches the toughest guy in the league for 12 games? Even though in the playoffs it was a no brainer? Stay tuned...
 
We’ve improved dramatically every year MSL has been here. Almost all our prospects have improved by leaps and bounds. We overachieved this year and made the playoffs beyond anyone’s expectations. We were in almost every game in the series bs Washington.

We already have a legit guy.

What I mentioned in my post was yes Marty has been good for development(except maybe for Dach and Jack). But winning hockey games is another matter differently. I thought his system and structure was questionable. And too many times spent in our zone.

Xhejac is a 6th defenseman. People need to get over this. Him not being in the lineup for two games has some people losing their minds…. It’s crazy. We need to get a new coach so he’ll be Xhejac? Really? Let me tell you something, there’s no guarantee any coach would’ve played him.

I like X. Agree he should’ve been in the lineup from the beginning. But that’s not why we lost the series.

We don't need another coach for Jack. We need another coach cause it would make us better. And it's also a guy that understand how to use gritty players which Marty doesn't. He does not believe in it! That's why he waited the third game to use Jack when all of us knew the Habs would get slaughtered physically out of the gate and it happened. He didn't want to recall gritty guys from Laval for the last game and again the Habs had no physical pushback. And they lost.

It's laughable what MSL has been doing. And they basically only made the playoffs cause of the blossoming of Hutson and Suz taking his leadership seriously and the PP goals of Laine when he returned. None of it was cause of coaching.
 
What I mentioned in my post was yes Marty has been good for development(except maybe for Dach and Jack). But winning hockey games is another matter differently. I thought his system and structure was questionable. And too many times spent in our zone.
How has he not been good at winning hockey games? Take a look at our progression over the years. Nobody expected us to make the playoffs and yet there we were.
We don't need another coach for Jack. We need another coach cause it would make us better. And it's also a guy that understand how to use gritty players which Marty doesn't. He does not believe in it!
? How so?
That's why he waited the third game to use Jack when all of us knew the Habs would get slaughtered physically out of the gate and it happened. He didn't want to recall gritty guys from Laval for the last game and again the Habs had no physical pushback. And they lost.
You keep coming back to X. Again... we don't win the series if he plays or not. He's a 6th defenseman on a team that barely made the playoffs.

Get over it. I understand your criticism and agree with you that he should’ve been used. But this isn’t a huge thing. If this is the biggest thing he did wrong then he’s doing pretty well.
It's laughable what MSL has been doing. And they basically only made the playoffs cause of the blossoming of Hutson and Suz taking his leadership seriously and the PP goals of Laine when he returned. None of it was cause of coaching.
The guy got a team that had no 2nd line and one scoring line into the playoffs and it's laughable? What are you talking about?

And let me get this straight... you give him no credit for what we did but you assign him blame for what went wrong? How does that work?

You think Suzuki just suddenly developed into the player he is today by himself? You think Caufield (who had 1 goal in 41 games under DD) didn't improve by leaps and bounds under MSL? He gets no credit for this?

Again, MSL has had his teams overachieve since getting here. Our players have developed really well under his tutelage and with a couple of bounces, we might've even won that series. But X didn't get played and people have been throwing a hissy fit over it ever since.

The reason we didn't win isn't 'lack of toughness' it's the fact that we have one line that can score. That's not a coaching issue. It's not a roster mgmt issue. It's a ROSTER issue. He squeezed a lot of juice out of what most people thought was a lemon and gave us lemonade. Him being nominated for coach of the year is well deserved. It blows my mind that there are still people out there saying he doesn't deserve credit for anything.
 
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What I mentioned in my post was yes Marty has been good for development(except maybe for Dach and Jack). But winning hockey games is another matter differently. I thought his system and structure was questionable. And too many times spent in our zone.
How much more winning did you expect from this roster?
 
How much more winning did you expect from this roster?
I really think that for some people it comes down to ‘he didn’t play my guy in games one and two so he hates toughness’.

But this isnt unique to this forum or Montreal. We’re all armchair quarterbacks when it comes to coaches. They can’t win. Other people here think it was an obvious mistake that we didn’t play Demidov on the first line despite him being completely green….

I think people are missing the big picture. Even if he made mistakes, overall we’ve overachieved and our prospects have mostly done really well. Thats all you can ask for at this stage.
 
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