The Martin St Louis Thread

[vokiel]

Still don't like him at all. 15ish games of good play doesn't negate the absolute putrid start to the season. Even smaller sample size than the start to the season that was to small to judge MSL on. Laine's shot being unreal doesn't make the PP structure great and contract year performances from Evans and Armia don't move me having watched them for many years.

When the Team starts the season on all four wheels out of a decent camp, I'll turn over my "f*** you MSL" signs.

 

[Pure Laine]

Larry Robinson on Martin St-Louis:

''Especially now, it’s even worse because of the internet and everything else that goes with it. My hat’s off to him. I should have told him to take a picture of himself from when he started compared to the end of the year because I’m sure there’s going to be a lot more grey hair.”

It's okay, the media got that covered for him.

 

[DAChampion]

History question,

Which Habs' players did MSL play against, and did he have any negative experiences?

Is old man Gallagher the only Hab that knew MSL on the ice?

 

[ahmedou]

MSL vs Arniel

 

[ahmedou]

His 100th win! As the Montreal Canadiens head coach!

Congrats to MSL!

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Still don't like him at all. 15ish games of good play doesn't negate the absolute putrid start to the season. Even smaller sample size than the start to the season that was to small to judge MSL on. Laine's shot being unreal doesn't make the PP structure great and contract year performances from Evans and Armia don't move me having watched them for many years.

It takes a seriously misguided bias to not be able to admit that MSL has done a very good job.

It is priceless how you carve him up when we are losing and absolve the players....... yet, when he is winning you attribute the success entirely to the players and refuse to give Marty any creadt. If this is not fallacy riddled circular logic at it's worst then I don't know what is.

I would love to see you say this to Hughes and Gorton, as it is an egregiously ill-informed opinion that would not be received with any sort of consideration for it's validity.

You of course are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to an opinion that would claim that 2+2 = 5 in which case our opinions would be similarly valid and we could be besties and roam the flat earth for aliens and spell check their cave drawings........

 

[Rapala]

His 100th win! As the Montreal Canadiens head coach!

Congrats to MSL!

Took him long enough.

 

[nhlfan9191]

It takes a seriously misguided bias to not be able to admit that MSL has done a very good job.

It is priceless how you carve him up when we are losing and absolve the players....... yet, when he is winning you attribute the success entirely to the players and refuse to give Marty any creadt. If this is not fallacy riddled circular logic at it's worst then I don't know what is.

I would love to see you say this to Hughes and Gorton, as it is an egregiously ill-informed opinion that would not be received with any sort of consideration for it's validity.

You of course are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to an opinion that would claim that 2+2 = 5 in which case our opinions would be similarly valid and we could be besties and roam the flat earth for aliens and spell check their cave drawings........

He’s exceeded expectations for a coach that was hired as a shot in the dark. He’s definitely not the coaching prophet some fans make him out to be on here. Eventually the team will have higher expectations again and he’s yet to prove he’s the guy to be in charge when that day comes.

 

[Weltschmerz]

He’s exceeded expectations for a coach that was hired as a shot in the dark. He’s definitely not the coaching prophet some fans make him out to be on here. Eventually the team will have higher expectations again and he’s yet to prove he’s the guy to be in charge when that day comes.

There have been higher expectations for 30 years. Still think he is getting more out of this group than others would, but he is not perfect, no coach is.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

He’s exceeded expectations for a coach that was hired as a shot in the dark. He’s definitely not the coaching prophet some fans make him out to be on here. Eventually the team will have higher expectations again and he’s yet to prove he’s the guy to be in charge when that day comes.

MSL, Hughes and Gorton are much smarter than anyone on this board when it comes to hockey and nobody on here should pretend otherwise. This doesn't mean that they won't make mistakes but Marty has done nothing but prove them to be correct so far. The only issue is the casual fan's utter inability to fully grasp the vision that these three have. Marty was not a "shot in the dark" as Hughes has been emphatic that he has long felt that Marty could be a great coach especially when given the freedom to grow with his team.

Impatience is often born from ignorance and that looks to be the case here.

 

[nhlfan9191]

MSL, Hughes and Gorton are much smarter than anyone on this board when it comes to hockey and nobody on here should pretend otherwise. This doesn't mean that they won't make mistakes but Marty has done nothing but prove them to be correct so far. The only issue is the casual fan's utter inability to fully grasp the vision that these three have. Marty was not a "shot in the dark" as Hughes has been emphatic that he has long felt that Marty could be a great coach especially when given the freedom to grow with his team.

Impatience is often born from ignorance and that looks to be the case here.

You can make an argument Bergevin and Therrien know more about hockey then most people on here. That didn’t make them good at their jobs. You’re grouping managers and coaches together like they’re the same thing. Coaches have a shorter life cycle then managers outside of a few exceptions. MSL could lose the room two weeks from now and be gone. That’s how the coaching game works. Just because St. Louis is coaching us threw the first part of the rebuild does not mean we’re grooming him to coach us long term. I get that MSL is a likeable guy to some which is a breath of fresh air compared to the dinosaurs we’ve had in the past, but it will overall come down to if he can help this team take the next few steps. Guys like Jon Cooper or even a Bednar are rare in this league.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

You can make an argument Bergevin and Therrien know more about hockey then most people on here. That didn’t make them good at their jobs. You’re grouping managers and coaches together like they’re the same thing. Coaches have a shorter life cycle then managers outside of a few exceptions. MSL could lose the room two weeks from now and be gone. That’s how the coaching game works. Just because St. Louis is coaching us threw the first part of the rebuild does not mean we’re grooming him to coach us long term. I get that MSL is a likeable guy to some which is a breath of fresh air compared to the dinosaurs we’ve had in the past, but it will overall come down to if he can help this team take the next few steps. Guys like Jon Cooper or even a Bednar are rare in this league.

There is no argument from me with the fact that MSL is untested at the next level as a coach and that he is not guaranteed to be successful.

Where our opinions sharply diverge is that I am claiming that Marty is much smarter than most NHL coaches as well as Hughes and Gorton are much smarter than most NHL executives. This isn't a guarantee that they will be immediately successful nor does it assert that they will not make mistakes but their collective processes are extremely impressive. Unfortunately professional sports inherently attracts minds that are more tribal and therefore more emotional and reactive with a lessened capacity to understand abstract ideas resulting in a lack of patience and hyperbolic, ill-informed conclusions indicative of an inability to connect the micro with the macro. This applies to fans, players and yes....even management as they are also fans and former players. MSL, Hughes and Gorton are able to transcend this intellectual deficit that plagues pro sports which is why I do not put them in the category with many of their peers as you alluded to. While my statements may appear as an obvious Appeal to Authority fallacy, they actually are not as my deference to this trio is based entirely on their intelligence relative to their professional contemporaries more so than it was based on the obviously large gap between themselves and fans.

All of Hughes, Gorton and MSL are a breath of fresh air as they do not blindly commit to truisms and are not at all afraid to make bold decisions that reflect their convictions and challenge the status quo. They have said all along that progress is not linear and I suppose that I am just tired of watching the mob trying to burn a witch every time there is a bump in the road. I suspect that you would agree with at least some of this as I know you are not a part of the mob that I am referring to.

 

[Paddyjack]

History question,

Which Habs' players did MSL play against, and did he have any negative experiences?

Is old man Gallagher the only Hab that knew MSL on the ice?

David Savard most likely

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

David Savard most likely