The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

Kulak had a nice 15 game stretch really early on in the season and people keep acting like he’s been some stud all year round. He bleeds goals against this season to an embarrassing degree.
It was longer than 15 games. Trying to downplay Kulak's solid play this season is folly. The entire team bleeds goals against. It's funny, in goalie discussions, its all the goalies fault, but then we see people trying to pin it on Kulak despite his solid play for most of the season. I don't believe for a second that Broberg's place on our 3rd pair this season would have us in better shape than having Kulak there would. Not that it was ever really even an option - Broberg wanted out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: K1984 and Canovin
It almost seems obvious, yet so many people missed that as the takeaway from the playofs. It's like BowJack skipped all the games where Skinner collapsed and only saw the Dallas series and the three-game comeback where Florida more than likely let their guard down.

Their argument for keeping Skinner was that the SCF experience would help his growth as a goaltender, but they didn't assume the same of the young skaters who were there for the ride? Well, it turns out they guessed wrong. It was all the young skaters they let go who got better. Skinner got worse.
Alas this org has had a habit of not regarding some of my favorite young players through the years. Seems like whenever I don't like one, like Yamamoto the org spends ages trying to get something out of it. If its a bluechip youth like Holloway they get rid of him. Its uncanny.

What you haven't mentioned is game 3. Look at the players that finally got some goals in this series and opened the gates. Game 3 which the Oilers would've won without awful goaltending by Skinner all our goals were by, in order, Foegele, Broberg, McLeod. All players we got rid of in offseason. These are the guys that finally got us some scoring in the Final series.
 
I think the team also has to show that they have a reasonable way of becoming cap compliant when a player returns from LTIR, unless they can prove that the player will be out for the season. Some reports mentioned this during the deadline coverage, basically saying the NHL won't approve a deal that takes a team into LTIR unless a) the team can show the player is 100% out for the season, or b) the team can demonstrate what moves could be made to get under the cap when the injured player returns.

I'm not sure if this is 100% true, but if it is, I could see how it would be very difficult for the team to show a path to being cap compliant. I doubt a trade counts, because I assume you can't guarantee that another team would trade for a player on the specific day that an injured player comes off the LTIR. And with the number of NMC the Oilers have, I don't think sending guys down is so easy either.

It was very fishy to me at the time how committed the Oilers were to not going into LTIR. I don't think they were allowed to due to the murkiness around Kane's return date, that's my theory. I think it's likely that the only reasonable path to matching Holloway's contract was trading Kulak for nothing, which in hindsight would probably have been the right move. There's no chance any of the NTC signings are moving the same summer they signed a contract.

Good post.

I think the Oilers rightly prioritized (in order):
1) certainty on D - meaning a deadline upgrade to a reliable vet (Walman) was prioritized over a player who looks like they might have made that step (Broberg) but carried some risk (youth, injury)
2) This year's cap space - since you maximize your roster by carrying some space which multiplies when you don't use LTIR... you essentially buy almost all that you can afford in the summer... then buy again at deadline. We essentially got a Broberg equivalent at the TDL without having to pay him all year.
3) Next year's cap space - Broberg next year now looks like a bargain, but so is Walman and the above risk meant they wouldn't risk the season AND next season on Broberg's ability to jump
4) Forwards - they'd already blown the budget (this was the big mistake) and then Holloway becomes a casualty because of Broberg's uncertainty
 
Long one. Just in relation to offer sheets, this gonna sound stupid, but i hope a non-playoff team sends an 11.5M / 8 year offer sheet to Evan Bouchard in July. He would have to have another Paul Coffey like post season, he's right in his prime, mid 20s and will bolster any powerplay in the league (aside from Makar).

Why? Well, in 2020 everyone was saying Lafreniere was the next McDavid/Crosby, how he exceeded all of McDavid's numbers in junior and might even be better than Connor. Not even a particle of my mind believed he would be close to McDavid. Then, 2023 draft, Connor Bedard. Everyone and their grandma calling him the next 'one', the new Crosby/McDavid, maybe even better. As again, exceeded all of McDavid's junior numbers. And again, was never convinced or scared he would take that mantle from McDavid. And now he's arguably a tier 3 player.

In 2026, imo, the next McDavid will be drafted. Gavin McKenna is the closest thing to Connor McDavid I've ever seen, almost a mirror image of his junior days. They have the same deceptive techniques and skill seperation from the rest of the pack.

If a team offer sheets Bouchard 11.25, we get their 2026 and 2027 1st round pick. If its 11.45+, we get 2026,27,28 and 29 1st rounders. Now, i doubt a team would be dumb enough to give up their chance at the McKenna sweepstakes for Evan Bouchard, but if he has a dominant post season, desperate GMs might pull the trigger. Maybe Chicago does it to appease Bedard. Maybe Seattle or Utah pull the trigger to bolster their offense.

Losing Bouchard in his prime, for a chance at McKenna is dipsht asset management to most, but he's so goddamn good, its worth the risk: for whats a replaceable piece imo in Bouchard. That powerplay was clicking at the same rate with Tyson Barrie at the helm. A little off topic, but just via offer sheets
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Stealth JD
If Kane came back early there were options. The two main ones would be to move Kulak or just move Kane. They knew he was going to be out awhile anyways and other teams always seem to find ways to free up cap. Also, if Broberg didn't live up to the contract then you could buy him out for the last year with the buyout penalty being something like 700kx2. It was a gamble I would have took for the long term outlook of the franchise. Instead the team went all in for this season but not where it mattered on the goaltending.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't trade NHL-level players after the deadline right? How would they know Kane would be back in time to be cap compliant?

And aren't we trying to avoid buyouts and stop punting dead cap down the road?

I think they chose Kulak OVER Broberg - and AT THE TIME that's a wise decision for a cup contender

On September 30th, this team was BURSTING with new forward options on its 2nd line, and had TWO potential gaps in its lineup: 1) 2RD 2)1B goalie

Letting Broberg go meant you were guaranteed the cash to fill one of those... whichever one was a bigger need come deadline.

Keeping him meant 100% betting on him AND on Stu Skinner. You'd have no cap space to do anything if either failed.

That optionality had value. It was the right call.

They chose spending the money on Walman, I'm sure you disagree with that, fine... but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right call to keep those options open.

If Kane comes back, scores a big playoff goal, and Walman and Frederic both contribute... heck even J Skinner heats up... all should be fogotten/forgiven as long as rickety Stu can hold it together.
 
It was longer than 15 games. Trying to downplay Kulak's solid play this season is folly. The entire team bleeds goals against. It's funny, in goalie discussions, its all the goalies fault, but then we see people trying to pin it on Kulak despite his solid play for most of the season. I don't believe for a second that Broberg's place on our 3rd pair this season would have us in better shape than having Kulak there would. Not that it was ever really even an option - Broberg wanted out.
Kulak has been good in the playoffs for us too. Also, Broberg wanted out because he didn't get opportunities on our team, because we are a contender. However, he was given the opportunty of his dreams by playing big minutes in our playoff run, and was penciled in next to Nurse for this season. He wanted to stay. Both him and Holloway left because our offers weren't serious. Just because they are RFA doesn't mean they have to accept the kind of money that some 4th line plug out of the AHL gets.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Arty Spooners Bsmnt
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't trade NHL-level players after the deadline right? How would they know Kane would be back in time to be cap compliant?

And aren't we trying to avoid buyouts and stop punting dead cap down the road?

I think they chose Kulak OVER Broberg - and AT THE TIME that's a wise decision for a cup contender

On September 30th, this team was BURSTING with new forward options on its 2nd line, and had TWO potential gaps in its lineup: 1) 2RD 2)1B goalie

Letting Broberg go meant you were guaranteed the cash to fill one of those... whichever one was a bigger need come deadline.

Keeping him meant 100% betting on him AND on Stu Skinner. You'd have no cap space to do anything if either failed.

That optionality had value. It was the right call.

They chose spending the money on Walman, I'm sure you disagree with that, fine... but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right call to keep those options open.

If Kane comes back, scores a big playoff goal, and Walman and Frederic both contribute... heck even J Skinner heats up... all should be fogotten/forgiven as long as rickety Stu can hold it together.
We never filled the 1B goalie role and wouldn’t have needed a 2RD if Broberg stayed. Everyone knew how good he was going to be after the Cup run. The Panther players were raving about his play. As for Kane, I’m sure the team knew he’d be out until at least when his NTC comes up. They were just doing smoke and mirrors for the fans and league to make it not seem like they were going to abuse the LTIR loophole.
 
Kulak has been good in the playoffs for us too. Also, Broberg wanted out because he didn't get opportunities on our team, because we are a contender. However, he was given the opportunty of his dreams by playing big minutes in our playoff run, and was penciled in next to Nurse for this season. He wanted to stay. Both him and Holloway left because our offers weren't serious. Just because they are RFA doesn't mean they have to accept the kind of money that some 4th line plug out of the AHL gets.
It didn't stop Reichel who was Holloway comparable to sign the same deal. It was a legit offer. These guys just held out long enough for an offersheet and both had instructions from their agents and other teams.
 
  • Like
Reactions: harpoon
We never filled the 1B goalie role and wouldn’t have needed a 2RD if Broberg stayed. Everyone knew how good he was going to be after the Cup run. The Panther players were raving about his play. As for Kane, I’m sure the team knew he’d be out until at least when his NTC comes up. They were just doing smoke and mirrors for the fans and league to make it not seem like they were going to abuse the LTIR loophole.

Don't count me as one of those, sorry. He's been injured a lot for the past few years, really stunting his development. He's hardly played any games at the NHL level (a lot of it due to him always getting hurt just as he was starting to gain some traction), only played one series in the finals, and his pairing with Nurse got completely caved. Everyone knew he was a good skater with long reach, but to say all the signs were there for him to be a top 4 dman...well I didn't see many. But hindsight is great.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Canovin and K1984
Don't count me as one of those, sorry. He's been injured a lot for the past few years, really stunting his development. He's hardly played any games at the NHL level (a lot of it due to him always getting hurt just as he was starting to gain some traction), only played one series in the finals, and his pairing with Nurse got completely caved. Everyone knew he was a good skater with long reach, but to say all the signs were there for him to be a top 4 dman...well I didn't see many. But hindsight is great.

Bingo.

Broberg was amazing in the Conference Finals next to Kulak on the 3rd pair. He was not good in the Finals, got caved in the Finals, and did not work with Nurse. He basically played 3 great games, and then 7 games ranging from bad to just ok. The "he was amazing in the Finals!" narrative that has popped up just isn't accurate.

Even this year a lot of his production is isolated to the odd hot game, or hot streak. A lot of his points came off his PDO explosion hot start. He is still a wild card and a bit of a project.
 
Don't count me as one of those, sorry. He's been injured a lot for the past few years, really stunting his development. He's hardly played any games at the NHL level (a lot of it due to him always getting hurt just as he was starting to gain some traction), only played one series in the finals, and his pairing with Nurse got completely caved. Everyone knew he was a good skater with long reach, but to say all the signs were there for him to be a top 4 dman...well I didn't see many. But hindsight is great.
Advanced stats show he got caved yet the Oilers still outscored the Panthers with him on the ice. I’ll take the word of the opposition that played him for 7 games over an algorithm on moneypuck.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't trade NHL-level players after the deadline right? How would they know Kane would be back in time to be cap compliant?

And aren't we trying to avoid buyouts and stop punting dead cap down the road?

I think they chose Kulak OVER Broberg - and AT THE TIME that's a wise decision for a cup contender

On September 30th, this team was BURSTING with new forward options on its 2nd line, and had TWO potential gaps in its lineup: 1) 2RD 2)1B goalie

Letting Broberg go meant you were guaranteed the cash to fill one of those... whichever one was a bigger need come deadline.

Keeping him meant 100% betting on him AND on Stu Skinner. You'd have no cap space to do anything if either failed.

That optionality had value. It was the right call.

They chose spending the money on Walman, I'm sure you disagree with that, fine... but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right call to keep those options open.

If Kane comes back, scores a big playoff goal, and Walman and Frederic both contribute... heck even J Skinner heats up... all should be fogotten/forgiven as long as rickety Stu can hold it together.
Players can be traded at anytime.

But if traded after the deadline they're unable to play any games for the new team.
 
Quite simply Skinner & Arvidsson need to show up in playoffs, if so this nasty offer sheet business will fade from our collective memory.

I say: Good for Holloway. He's up to 18-19 minutes a game, with 13 PP points. Unlikely that he would have seen that much ice in Edmonton with our reliance on PP1 and playing behind 97, 29, 93, & 18.
 
We never filled the 1B goalie role and wouldn’t have needed a 2RD if Broberg stayed. Everyone knew how good he was going to be after the Cup run. The Panther players were raving about his play. As for Kane, I’m sure the team knew he’d be out until at least when his NTC comes up. They were just doing smoke and mirrors for the fans and league to make it not seem like they were going to abuse the LTIR loophole.

1) For whatever reason, Edmonton was not convinced that Broberg was the answer. It could be perceived on-ice risk, or it could be his general attitude (trade request) last season. Whatever it was, they weren't going to hitch their wagon to him. I think we all agree his play showed he was ready to take the leap... but clear that wasn't enough for Oilers mgmt. Who knows, maybe it was the off-ice stuff that made them gun-shy...

2) Once that decision was made, it is clear they were going for optionality. If Emberson had taken a bigger step, maybe no Klingberg. If Klingberg were back to a 50 point puck mover, no Walman. If no Walman maybe it was easier to pull off Gibson. We all see how the decision tree played out, but the point is that the cap space gave them optionality, which is useful in any type of management role. Anyone with business training should at least be acknowledging that logic.

3) If Broberg stayed and was our 2RD, you are right, we'd not need Walman... but we'd have been in LTIR, so we still wouldn't have $$$ for a goalie. So not really any better off than we are right? With Broberg gone, there was a scenario where we get both an RD and a goalie... seems clear to me that was Plan A (Klingberg + cap for goalie). Plan B was only an RD (Walman). Why paint yourself into a corner with Broberg?

4) Kane Point 1: I'm just responding to your point that it would have been easy to get themselves cap compliant if he came back. You just said yourself it was known he'd not be back until at least after his NTC. That means limited trade options and ZERO guarantees they can make themselves cap compliant (without trading a Nuge or Hyman who WOULD have buyers) in mid-season. How can you enter a season with that level of risk hanging over your cup aspirations?

5) Kane Point 2: Of course there was a plan to deal with that uncertainty... have you forgotten it was widely rumored we tried to trade him this summer? Did you miss part where Kane provided his NTC list prior to acquiring Walman? It stands to reason that the sequential surgery (hip--> recovery --> knee scope --> recovery) was in reaction to the failed plan to trade him... if we'd traded him in the summer, we'd have kept both RFAs.

Taking it all together, I think the plan was:
1) Sign UFA forwards, Keep Ceci, Trade Kane, sign RFAs cheap, accrue space for TDL
EXTERNAL EVENT --> Offer sheets
2) Trade Ceci, Trade Kane, sign RFAs at offer sheet prices
3) Let RFAs go, accrue space, execute our wink-wink-nudge-nudge agreement with him to have his knee scoped, accrue space for RD, then if enough left over, use LTIR space 1bG at deadline

All I'm saying is that once they couldn't trade Kane in the summer, the option of keeping Broberg (and only Broberg) was less palatable than 3 which still could have worked out with both RD & 1bG... admittedly they failed to pull that off (blame Klingberg), but it was on the table as a possibility.

There's no question they F'd up on plan 1 above (by spending too much on UFA forwards), but trading Broberg allowed them an upside scenario of adding BOTH RD & 1bG and a downside scenario of adding only one of those (whichever seemed higher priority at deadline). I support that type of thinking.
 
Players can be traded at anytime.

But if traded after the deadline they're unable to play any games for the new team.

Yes, that's true... and a guy like Kane who has a NTC clause that would kick in BEFORE he recovers from career-threatening injury...

How likely a playoff team would trade for such a player if they can't use him until next year? ZERO

And how likely is it Kane would have any non-playoff teams on his permitted trade list? ZERO

This is why we could not plan on being able to trade him mid-season.

This is why entering the season with both he and $4.6M Broberg on the roster meant we would have no options to add at TDL.
 
Bowman had 2 weeks to match 2 fn million for Holloway. This idiot went out and signed Podkolzin for 1 and called it a day.

One of the worst neglect of your duties in Oilers history. The Oilers were guaranteed a cup if Holloway was part of this top 6

So you'd be ok if we'd kept Holloway and did not upgrade our D?

This looks good to you?

Ekholm Bouchard
Nurse Emberson
Kulak Stecher

Brown/Dermot/AHL

That one million difference meant the TDL flexibility to add Klingberg and Walman and Frederic. Or if we were lucky 2019-Klingberg and Frederic and a goalie.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stoneman89
Bingo.

Broberg was amazing in the Conference Finals next to Kulak on the 3rd pair. He was not good in the Finals, got caved in the Finals, and did not work with Nurse. He basically played 3 great games, and then 7 games ranging from bad to just ok. The "he was amazing in the Finals!" narrative that has popped up just isn't accurate.

Even this year a lot of his production is isolated to the odd hot game, or hot streak. A lot of his points came off his PDO explosion hot start. He is still a wild card and a bit of a project.

He's a top-4 on a rebuilding team.

He is not a top-4 on a Cup winner... he probably could be one someday, but he's not there yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stoneman89
So you'd be ok if we'd kept Holloway and did not upgrade our D?

This looks good to you?

Ekholm Bouchard
Nurse Emberson
Kulak Stecher

Brown/Dermot/AHL

That one million difference meant the TDL flexibility to add Klingberg and Walman and Frederic. Or if we were lucky 2019-Klingberg and Frederic and a goalie.
Klingberg f***ing blows. Stecher isn't much better.
 
Bowman had 2 weeks to match 2 fn million for Holloway. This idiot went out and signed Podkolzin for 1 and called it a day.

One of the worst neglect of your duties in Oilers history. The Oilers were guaranteed a cup if Holloway was part of this top 6
This might shock you, but bowman didn’t sign podkolzin
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stoneman89
People are going to keep complaining about Pods, but he's going to be one of the reason why Russians are signing with the Oilers
 

Ad

Ad