The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[North]

I thought he was playing with Faulk earlier in the year and did very well with him. It seems like they grabbed Fowler because octogenarian Suter was running out of gas.

It seems like they realized Broberg was in over his head so acquired Fowler to insulate him.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

It seems like they realized Broberg was in over his head so acquired Fowler to insulate him.

That makes no sense when Broberg has already spent more than half his minutes this season with Faulk and Suter was the one moved to the bottom pairing with Perunovich. He actually has the best numbers into elites among the Blues top 4 dmen.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

It seems like they realized Broberg was in over his head so acquired Fowler to insulate him.

Haha, why would anyone expect Broberg to walk into a top pairing role on a veteran defense? Leddy and Parayko were their top pairing for years but Leddy playing only 4 games this year pushed Broberg into D1 toi and responsibilities.

Naw, good organizations slot their players appropriately. They also buy low on quality assets like their future top 4 d guy (still young enough to potentially project top pair) or beating the market for a cheap buy on a quality veteran d-man to fill their top pair injury.

The story of the great Offer Sheet Heist of 2024 will be played out over years with episodic ups and downs naturally occurring with pre-prime year talent emerging into pedigree projections. It's a pyrrhic victory to hang on to hopes otherwise.

 

[McDNicks17]

That makes no sense when Broberg has already spent more than half his minutes this season with Faulk and Suter was the one moved to the bottom pairing with Perunovich. He actually has the best numbers into elites among the Blues top 4 dmen.

 

[Coffey]

Gripe over what?

Broberg

Holloway

Although Holloway did have a hot streak for a few games

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

View attachment 948857

Bro literally just turn on the game. Wherever the hell you found that lineup card it's not what's happening on the ice. Broberg is mostly playing with Faulk and a little bit with Parayko against Florida's top 6. Don't think I've seen him take a single shift with Perunovich lol. It's mostly Suter playing with Perunovich in the easy matchups. Not perfect in terms of evidence but you can see the pairings via minutes played and xGF shares too (Florida's big guns are kinda owning Broberg's pairing and the Thomas line but that's a different story).

 

[Mr Positive]

It seems like they realized Broberg was in over his head so acquired Fowler to insulate him.

That seems normal considering how young Broberg is. They have a long term plan for him

The Fowler acquisition is interesting though. I figured they are just trying to make the playoffs, which is likely true, but maybe they feel giving Broberg too much responsibility will stall his development

Edit: I don't see the Blues going anywhere though. If Broberg and Holloway develop into stars, players like Faulk, Parayko and even their star players will exit their primes. It seems unlikely that a cup window will open

 

[North]

That seems normal considering how young Broberg is. They have a long term plan for him

The Fowler acquisition is interesting though. I figured they are just trying to make the playoffs, which is likely true, but maybe they feel giving Broberg too much responsibility will stall his development

It’s happened to young guys before so it makes sense that they try to ensure they don’t destroy his confidence.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

View attachment 948857

Actual Deployment and Ice Time Minutes tonight ... road game against the defending Stanley Cup Champions Panthers... in a 1-1 game headed for overtime.

Broberg 18:35 toi , 17:58 ev, .37pk
Suter 16:481toi, .02 pp, .38 pk

Context matters. Broberg is getting ice-time and the Blues are managing his situational play surrounding with a veteran d-corp. This is a long-term approach being taken with a still pre-peak years defenseman. Won't be and will never be a straight hockey stick development path. Will have ups and downs. Solid development route within a veteran d-corp.

EDIT: Looking at the player's splits, he actually plays more toi in road games than at home, 21:53 to 19:50. His highest monthly toi has been December 22:46, 3 points in 8 games, +1. Again like any young player will have his stumbles but early days looks to be covering the low risk gamble made.

Blues vs. Panthers (Dec 20, 2024) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the St. Louis Blues vs. Florida Panthers NHL game from December 20, 2024 on ESPN. Includes all goals, assists and penalty minutes stats.

www.espn.com

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Parayko, Fowler and Falk all had more then 4 minutes more ice time then Broberg, not exactly an endorsement when there’s that kind of gap and he’s close in toi to the bottom pair then he is the top 3.

They were smart to acquire Fowler though because it’s only a matter of time until Broberg blows out another knee or another should or gets a core injury.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Parayko, Fowler and Falk all had more then 4 minutes more ice time then Broberg, not exactly an endorsement when there’s that kind of gap and he’s close in toi to the bottom pair then he is the top 3.

They were smart to acquire Fowler though because it’s only a matter of time until Broberg blows out another knee or another should or gets a core injury.

Pretty simple coaching common sense. Lean on your veteran defense and grow up your young player without overwhelming. The cumulative age of those 3 veterans is 96. Now dig into their # of NHL games played and the answer 'why' is self evident.

19:33 toi in a 2-1 OT road game in the Cup Champions barn is impressive for a pre-prime years defender with 102 regular season NHL games. Missed one game and showed up in a tight game against a buzz saw team in their home building.

Two smart buy-low acquisitions to build up their blueline. Build up the top end of your d-corp with the immediate and long-term vision firmly in mind.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Pretty simple coaching common sense. Lean on your veteran defense and grow up your young player without overwhelming. The cumulative age of those 3 veterans is 96. Now dig into their # of NHL games played and the answer 'why' is self evident.

19:33 toi in a 2-1 OT road game in the Cup Champions barn is impressive for a pre-prime years defender with 102 regular season NHL games. Missed one game and showed up in a tight game against a buzz saw team in their home building.

Two smart buy-low acquisitions to build up their blueline. Build up the top end of your d-corp with the immediate and long-term vision firmly in mind.

Well it’s sure doing them a lot of good lol 5 points out and every team between them and a wildcard has games in hand.

It was a greasy move by a desperate GM in a small market who knows his hundred man ownership group will shut down spending if they think the team is going in the wrong direction. He’s already overpaid for guys on the wrong side of their primes and dished out big deals to good but not great players and the team is still sinking, might as well over pay for a few more guys while the purse strings are still open.

He’s just entrenching their position as a mediocre almost made it playoff team and ensuring they don’t get any actual difference makers any time in the near future.

 

[harpoon]

Well it’s sure doing them a lot of good lol 5 points out and every team between them and a wildcard has games in hand.

It was a greasy move by a desperate GM in a small market who knows his hundred man ownership group will shut down spending if they think the team is going in the wrong direction. He’s already overpaid for guys on the wrong side of their primes and dished out big deals to good but not great players and the team is still sinking, might as well over pay for a few more guys while the purse strings are still open.

He’s just entrenching their position as a mediocre almost made it playoff team and ensuring they don’t get any actual difference makers any time in the near future.

Oh bingo. It’s so tiring to hear people prattle on and on about ‘anticipating the market’ and ‘long term vision’. I like your words much better. A ‘greasy move from a desperate man’.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Well it’s sure doing them a lot of good lol 5 points out and every team between them and a wildcard has games in hand.

It was a greasy move by a desperate GM in a small market who knows his hundred man ownership group will shut down spending if they think the team is going in the wrong direction. He’s already overpaid for guys on the wrong side of their primes and dished out big deals to good but not great players and the team is still sinking, might as well over pay for a few more guys while the purse strings are still open.

He’s just entrenching their position as a mediocre almost made it playoff team and ensuring they don’t get any actual difference makers any time in the near future.

The Blues (who I've never liked) are trying to thread the needle on a retool instead of deep rebuild. They are resetting their team around their prime year forward group of Thomas, Kyrou, Neighbours with intent to roll over their roster with the prospect pool they've built up. I imagine it's not a market like Edmonton that can tolerate a decade + rebuild(s). Reasonable calculated risk as we increasingly see deep rebuild approaches taking extended durations.

Armstrong was on public record before free agency he would consider offer sheets to improve his team. The Oiler situation was obvious in its high risk factors and they walked themselves into golden handcuffs. Choosing inaction proved extremely costly.

Don't get me wrong I hope St. Louis fails in their bid to be competitive. Just don't think the balance will be determined on buy low acquisition of an age 23 top ten draft defenseman and a second age 22 winger centre coming off deep Stanley Cup playoff experience. Broberg is hitting his development target with top 4 all situational minutes including some OT ice tonight in a 2-1 game in Florida. He's executing on the development miles and dollars made by Edmonton. Tough lesson for the ex super agent's tenure in Edmonton. It's about poor asset management.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

Pretty simple coaching common sense. Lean on your veteran defense and grow up your young player without overwhelming. The cumulative age of those 3 veterans is 96. Now dig into their # of NHL games played and the answer 'why' is self evident.

19:33 toi in a 2-1 OT road game in the Cup Champions barn is impressive for a pre-prime years defender with 102 regular season NHL games. Missed one game and showed up in a tight game against a buzz saw team in their home building.

Two smart buy-low acquisitions to build up their blueline. Build up the top end of your d-corp with the immediate and long-term vision firmly in mind.

i agree, i don't know how anyone could argue and say that the Blues overpaid in assets for Broberg or Fowler. Both are very serviceable puck moving NHL dmen. If they chose to move on from either one, I don't they'd have any problem trading them for more than they spend to aquire them. Same with Holloway.

As an Oilers fan, I hate that the team mismanaged them, their contracts, and their development, and then gambled and lost with their RFA deals, even though 99% of the time, if not more, it works. Were they the pieces needed to win the cup this year? probably not, would they of helped, for sure.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

The Blues (who I've never liked) are trying to thread the needle on a retool instead of deep rebuild. They are resetting their team around their prime year forward group of Thomas, Kyrou, Neighbours with intent to roll over their roster with the prospect pool they've built up. I imagine it's not a market like Edmonton that can tolerate a decade + rebuild(s). Reasonable calculated risk as we increasingly see deep rebuild approaches taking extended durations.

Armstrong was on public record before free agency he would consider offer sheets to improve his team. The Oiler situation was obvious in its high risk factors and they walked themselves into golden handcuffs. Choosing inaction proved extremely costly.

Don't get me wrong I hope St. Louis fails in their bid to be competitive. Just don't think the balance will be determined on buy low acquisition of an age 23 top ten draft defenseman and a second age 22 winger centre coming off deep Stanley Cup playoff experience. Broberg is hitting his development target with top 4 all situational minutes including some OT ice tonight in a 2-1 game in Florida. He's executing on the development miles and dollars made by Edmonton. Tough lesson for the ex super agent's tenure in Edmonton. It's about poor asset management.

I think it’s easy to declare it was poor asset management in hindsight and from the outside looking in but the fact is that Jackson handled the situation how every management group in a tight cap environment does when it comes to RFA’s coming off ELC’s with no arb rights, his only mistake was believing that a desperate GM wouldn’t break from their accepted tradition of not dishing out inflationary offer sheets to mostly unproven players. I also think Jackson is smart enough that if he believed an offer sheet was imminent he would have explored trading either or both players. When I look at the situation, timeline and the people involved it’s pretty clear that known greaseball Darren Ferris intention the entire time was to get his client out of Edmonton but he wanted to dictate the situation so he slow played standard rfa negotiations to buy time for him and Armstrong to spring their trap. I don’t think it matter what the Oilers offered, their camp never had any intention of signing in Edmonton but they negotiated and made it seem like they would in order to ensure the offer sheet plan worked because he didn’t want to risk spooking Jackson into possibly trading Broberg into a situation they wouldn’t want.

In the end the Oilers got knifed because they played the way every gm does when it comes to rfa’s and even with STL and Ferris colluding to do it at the worse possible time for the Oilers, the team still came away with cap flexibility and asset currency for their cup window and their performance hasn’t suffered at all, in fact it’s been improved.