The Loss of Broberg and Holloway Gripe Thread

[BIeucheeseWithWings]

JFC people...move on already. This is getting silly.

This is a thread for people who want to discuss it. The f*** are you trying to accomplish? Just ignore it. loool

 

[Drivesaitl]

Broberg needed to be the AHL last year. It was the best thing that could have happened to him and his development. Over ripening for defenceman is never a bad idea. Especially given Brobergs propensity for getting hit and getting hurt. The Oilers made the right call by letting him stew and he came out the better layer because of it.

Maybe he shouldn’t have been yo-yo’d between the NHL/AHL. Maybe. But it’s not like NHL teams don’t have needs too. Sometimes we need injury coverage or serine’s we just plain make a mistake and think he’s ready to step in. Whatever it was I don’t think the what the Oilers did warranted Broberg or his agent crying over it. Many prospects put their head down and go to work instead of crying. Broberg acted entitled like Puljujaarvi before him.

Reasonable comments. But regardless Broberg, Holloway, they are org assets. Wherever you play them and how its up to the org to establish sufficiently that the org believes in them. Any employer that doesn't do that risks losing their assets. Not for the first time we've heard players say they didn't know where they stood and its something that has occurred with the Oilers. Org could work on their exit meetings as well as staying more in touch with players and where they are at. Fair bet as well the player agents knew where the money was at as soon as the Oilers went on their July shopping trip spending on other players instead of looking at locking in what they had. Anyway all this has been said so hopefully the games will give us something else to talk about. Been a long week without any.

 

[TheNumber4]

Reasonable comments. But regardless Broberg, Holloway, they are org assets. Wherever you play them and how its up to the org to establish sufficiently that the org believes in them. Any employer that doesn't do that risks losing their assets. Not for the first time we've heard players say they didn't know where they stood and its something that has occurred with the Oilers. Org could work on their exit meetings as well as staying more in touch with players and where they are at. Fair bet as well the player agents knew where the money was at as soon as the Oilers went on their July shopping trip spending on other players instead of looking at locking in what they had. Anyway all this has been said so hopefully the games will give us something else to talk about. Been a long week without any.

Yeh see like Holloway. Before he stuck, was sent up and down, and even when he looked like he was close, sent down again. Never a peep from Holloway though, nothing but smiles and good vibes from him. He accepted his role and took it with grace that his time would come. And his time came playing a prominent role in the playoffs.

I don’t know, the Organization wants what’s best for the organizaiton. And that is for the prospect they invested a 1st in to succeed. There’s no nefarious plan to keep these guys down or to ruin their development. Some players get that. And some players whine.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yeh see like Holloway. Before he stuck, was sent up and down, and even when he looked like he was close, sent down again. Never a peep from Holloway though, nothing but smiles and good vibes from him. He accepted his role and took it with grace that his time would come. And his time came playing a prominent role in the playoffs.

I don’t know, the Organization wants what’s best for the organizaiton. And that is for the prospect they invested a 1st in to succeed. There’s no nefarious plan to keep these guys down or to ruin their development. Some players get that. And some players whine.

No org worth its salt intends to lose its prospects. For sure that wasn't the plan. But the plan should be about keeping top prospects happy or why invest time or a pick in them. The Oilers picked these players, did the legwork just for another club to scoop em up.

 

[TheNumber4]

No org with its salt intends to lose its prospects. For sure that wasn't the plan. But the plan should be about keeping top prospects happy or why invest time or a pick in them. The Oilers picked these players, did the legwork just for another club to scoop em up.

Definitely gotta keep them happy. But sometimes it’s not your fault they ain’t happy. Some players are just whiners or entitled.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Again, you have repeated this to yourself until it became true.

There were reports the players were aware offer sheets might be coming, or they were just waiting and hoping. RFA's often get signed late.

Obviously Armstrong structured it so as to make the compensation as low as possible with the salary as high as possible. Yes? That is why the Oilers didn't match. What are we even arguing about there?

We're arguing that the Oilers got caught with their pants down and are now sans two valuable young players, replaced by older vets who so far have not provided adequate value.

Season ended late June. Bowman was hired on July 24th. The offer sheets were signed on August 13th. Plenty of time to hammer out deals or, if not possible, trade them for something more than what they got. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but if Broberg still couldn't have been convinced to stay then trade him before he got poached.

In essence, the Oilers turned 2 first round picks into a 2nd and a 3rd. Virtually no chance those assets end up as good as what we lost.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Reasonable offers according to who? Clearly the offers were lowballs to players that the Oilers devalued throughout and they ended up losing them because of it. I maintain that Broberg is worth more and same price as say Arviddson. I maintain McLeod and Holloway are better to have then say Connor Brown, Skinner, and Ryan. You know collectively we're paying MORE for these players right?

My argument was that the players could have been retained. Of course they could have. When no results are occurring with the players brought in you just default to "they aren't being used properly"

lol so now Browns contract, which is eating cap this year is irrelevant because the contract was signed last year. Thats really your view?

Coach surprised about what kind of player Skinner is? I was saying that in July. J Skinner is -9, is underperforming in every aspect, and is arguably the worst player not named Ryan and has had his minutes reduced, been demoted to bottomsix repeatedly. This guy was never going to row as hard as a contender team needs him to do in a profile role. He's never even played on a good club.

I asked you if you thought the players are worth their contracts, yet you started talking about Victor Arvidsson who was signed weeks before the offer sheets were made.

You can't say several players make more collectively than one or two players, that is not how the salary and roster caps work. Again, I'm not sure if you genuinely don't understand this or you just choose to make yourself look dumber than you are.

Connor Brown's bonus being signed last year (by a different GM no less) has everything to do with it. The contract he signed this year can still be buried and thus does not affect the offer sheets in any way. Again I'm not sure if you genuinely don't understand this.

Skinner was a very known quantity that our coach is trying to teach accountability. He is what he is, he was signed, he's here. Play him to his strengths instead of imagining he'll find his game on the fourth line.

 

[Drivesaitl]

not worth responding

 

[Fishy McScales]

We're arguing that the Oilers got caught with their pants down and are now sans two valuable young players, replaced by older vets who so far have not provided adequate value.

Season ended late June. Bowman was hired on July 24th. The offer sheets were signed on August 13th. Plenty of time to hammer out deals or, if not possible, trade them for something more than what they got. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but if Broberg still couldn't have been convinced to stay then trade him before he got poached.

In essence, the Oilers turned 2 first round picks into a 2nd and a 3rd. Virtually no chance those assets end up as good as what we lost.

Uh sure, that's a much more insightful way of putting it than you've done up until this point, but you're even admitting to the benefit of hindsight yourself.

I still don't understand why you were explaining how GM's construct offer sheets. We all know that.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

As usual you are making yourself look dumb and I can't tell if it's on purpose.

I asked you if you thought the players are worth their contracts, yet you started talking about Victor Arvidsson who was signed weeks before the offer sheets were made.

You can't say several players make more collectively than one or two players, that is not how the salary and roster caps work. Again, I'm not sure if you genuinely don't understand this or you just choose to make yourself look dumber than you are.

Connor Brown's bonus being signed last year (by a different GM no less) has everything to do with it. The contract he signed this year can still be buried and thus does not affect the offer sheets in any way. Again I'm not sure if you genuinely don't understand this.

Skinner was a very known quantity that our coach is trying to teach accountability. He is what he is, he was signed, he's here. Play him to his strengths instead of imagining he'll find his game on the fourth line.

It's quite simple. Are the players worth the contracts the Blues are paying them? No. But why was there no possibility for the Oilers to sign better deals? And if they didn't want to stick around, why not trade them?

Always reactive, never proactive. That's Oilers management. There is no defense of them in this scenario. They thought they had all the time in the world to get these two signed and now we're left with nothing. Zero picks from the Holland era are currently playing with the team. What a farce of a GM.

Uh sure, that's a much more insightful way of putting it than you've done up until this point, but you're even admitting to the benefit of hindsight yourself.

I still don't understand why you were explaining how GM's construct offer sheets. We all know that.

Because it's a giant middle finger from the St. Louis Blues to the Oilers, hamstringing them into either signing both players for more than they are worth, or taking it up the flesh pipe with meager returns.

They f***ed up, plain and simple. Never in their minds did they consider that the two could be offer sheeted. Now here we are with the oldest team in the league that many nights looks exactly that slow. Two first round picks down the drain. Oilers asset management is so bad, and it really doesn't get talked about enough.

 

[PuckG]

It's quite simple. Are the players worth the contracts the Blues are paying them? No. But why was there no possibility for the Oilers to sign better deals? And if they didn't want to stick around, why not trade them?

Always reactive, never proactive. That's Oilers management. There is no defense of them in this scenario. They thought they had all the time in the world to get these two signed and now we're left with nothing. Zero picks from the Holland era are currently playing with the team. What a farce of a GM.


Because it's a giant middle finger from the St. Louis Blues to the Oilers, hamstringing them into either signing both players for more than they are worth, or taking it up the flesh pipe with meager returns.

They f***ed up, plain and simple. Never in their minds did they consider that the two could be offer sheeted. Now here we are with the oldest team in the league that many nights looks exactly that slow. Two first round picks down the drain. Oilers asset management is so bad, and it really doesn't get talked about enough.

If anything, I consider the asset management on these two worse than anything we’ve experienced before.

You effectively have confirmed or were in the process of confirming that Draisaitl is a career Oiler (which means McDavid likely is too) and instead of having young talent to fill in and grow into a perennial contender, you have an aging group that fluctuates and is paid more to be less effective. Egregious errors (yes, in hindsight).

 

[TheNumber4]

We got f***ed by the Blues AND Hollands general incompetence. Both can be true. But Holland is done and over with. Time to move on and say “f*** you Blues.”

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

If anything, I consider the asset management on these two worse than anything we’ve experienced before.

You effectively have confirmed or were in the process of confirming that Draisaitl is a career Oiler (which means McDavid likely is too) and instead of having young talent to fill in and grow into a perennial contender, you have an aging group that fluctuates and is paid more to be less effective. Egregious errors (yes, in hindsight).

This whole fiasco wouldn't even be so annoying if the Oilers were even halfway good at drafting instead of being one of the worst teams in the league at it. Nothing to show for during Holland's entire tenure. Ekholm is great for sure. After that though? Complete emptiness.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If anything, I consider the asset management on these two worse than anything we’ve experienced before.

You effectively have confirmed or were in the process of confirming that Draisaitl is a career Oiler (which means McDavid likely is too) and instead of having young talent to fill in and grow into a perennial contender, you have an aging group that fluctuates and is paid more to be less effective. Egregious errors (yes, in hindsight).

Its not in hindsight either. The July signings were questioned at the time. Myself among the doubters.

This whole fiasco wouldn't even be so annoying if the Oilers were even halfway good at drafting instead of being one of the worst teams in the league at it. Nothing to show for during Holland's entire tenure. Ekholm is great for sure. After that though? Complete emptiness.

This the confounding factor. We rarely have good prospects, and then to lose two of them. Its some salt that these two were our better prospects.

 

[Shanahanigans]

The most infuriating part of it is this part for me :

Said Holloway: “We knew about the offer sheet before we had any negotiations with Edmonton, which was kind of weird. We were trying to get a deal done. I don’t think we were asking for anything crazy at all. If anything we were very upfront with Edmonton the whole time, even about the whole offer sheet. We explained, ‘Hey, this was an option for us. Can we get a deal?’ And it was weird the way they handled it. I felt I had no other option but to sign the offer sheet.”"

The Oilers knew about the offer sheets in advance and still chose to ignore both players and not negotiate with them.

 

[McDNicks17]

The most infuriating part of it is this part for me :

Said Holloway: “We knew about the offer sheet before we had any negotiations with Edmonton, which was kind of weird. We were trying to get a deal done. I don’t think we were asking for anything crazy at all. If anything we were very upfront with Edmonton the whole time, even about the whole offer sheet. We explained, ‘Hey, this was an option for us. Can we get a deal?’ And it was weird the way they handled it. I felt I had no other option but to sign the offer sheet.”"

The Oilers knew about the offer sheets in advance and still chose to ignore both players and not negotiate with them.

Because there really isn't any reason to?

A guy that demanded a trade has already secured a $4.6M offer sheet before he even talks to you. What are you supposed to do in that scenario? He pretty obviously isn't taking less money to stay in Edmonton.

As for Holloway, that "no other option" thing is just a silly excuse. Your option would be to wait and sign like every other RFA in the league.

 

[Spawn]

Which players and what goals are you considering in this depth production? A late Skinner goal in a blowout? We're getting a lot of goals from D, we're getting a ton of goals from Drai and McD. Which goals are you speaking of? Our bottomsix forwards in particularly are hardly contributing at all. When they do it tends to be against weak opposition and in blowouts.

Henrique has 4 points in his last 5.
Janmark has 7 points in his last 8
Brown has 6 points in his last 9

Podkolzin finally got off the snide for goal scoring. Even Derek Ryan has popped a couple assists on the board.

I'm including Skinner on the list of the "top 6 wingers" who have disappeared.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Because there really isn't any reason to?

A guy that demanded a trade has already secured a $4.6M offer sheet before he even talks to you. What are you supposed to do in that scenario? He pretty obviously isn't taking less money to stay in Edmonton.

As for Holloway, that "no other option" thing is just a silly excuse. Your option would be to wait and sign like every other RFA in the league.

Yeah wait and sign for less if we get around to it, if we have any cap left at all, and if you don't wanna get paid. Really your take on the Holloway situation, not reasonable. Of course the player went where the pay was guaranteed and more than he would get here.

 

[McDNicks17]

Yeah wait and sign for less if we get around to it, if we have any cap left at all, and if you don't wanna get paid. Really your take on the Holloway situation, not reasonable. Of course the player went where the pay was guaranteed and more than he would get here.

He's more than welcome to chase money. Anyone that actually wanted to stay in Edmonton would have understood it was going to be at a few $100k less than elsewhere.

 

[McBooya42]

This is a thread for people who want to discuss it. The f*** are you trying to accomplish? Just ignore it. loool

Says the self-confessed shit poster looool.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Henrique has 4 points in his last 5.
Janmark has 7 points in his last 8
Brown has 6 points in his last 9

Podkolzin finally got off the snide for goal scoring. Even Derek Ryan has popped a couple assists on the board.

I'm including Skinner on the list of the "top 6 wingers" who have disappeared.

Thanks for the digging. The Skinner goal was a garbage time goal very late in game with Minny not even defending anymore and a 3 goal lead. I was speaking more about actual scoring and would have to see where the pts are taking place. i.e. elevated in lines or not.

The Brown thing is a bid misleading because he also has 6pts in the last 16GP. He had two goals against an exhausted Lankinen and two more pts against a Rangers club completely mailing it in. I'd want to see results against actual performing opponents.

This not stated speciously. Trouble with all of Skinner, Brown, players like that who are supposed to produce, they're only sniffing it this season against weak opposition.

He's more than welcome to chase money. Anyone that actually wanted to stay in Edmonton would have understood it was going to be at a few $100k less than elsewhere.

If you mean 1M more instead of a few 100K. I'd take it too. Probably so would you.

 

[McDNicks17]

If you mean 1M more instead of a few 100K. I'd take it too. Probably so would you.

I was more talking about a few $100k off a realistic deal. The offer sheet was a bit of a lottery win for him. I don't knock him for taking it.

 

[Spawn]

Thanks for the digging. The Skinner goal was a garbage time goal very late in game with Minny not even defending anymore and a 3 goal lead. I was speaking more about actual scoring and would have to see where the pts are taking place. i.e. elevated in lines or not.

The Brown thing is a bid misleading because he also has 6pts in the last 16GP. He had two goals against an exhausted Lankinen and two more pts against a Rangers club completely mailing it in. I'd want to see results against actual performing opponents.

This not stated speciously. Trouble with all of Skinner, Brown, players like that who are supposed to produce, they're only sniffing it this season against weak opposition.

I wasn't including Skinner as I said. He's been miserable.

It's not misleading though. It's the whole point. I specifically said that of late we've started getting some production from our depth players. Our depth players literally weren't providing anything in the first 10-15 games. Now they are finally starting to chip in with a point here or there. Guys like Brown, Janmark and Henrique were complete vacuums the first dozen or so games.