The Locker Cleanout Thread, 2025 edition; Friday First Press Segments, Saturday Second Group and Adams/Ruff

[michaelsaas]

Fairburn called out some of Adams comments pretty specifically.

Adams said Bryson was so well liked and could play up and down the lineup and didn't complain about sitting out for weeks at a time. Fairburn pointed out that Bryson could not, in fact, play up and down the lineup and the Sabres record with him in the lineup was bad.

Adams said that they have been patient with Levi. Fairburn pointed out they have not been patient with Levi, forcing him into the lineup twice to start the season and he forced himself down to the AHL.

They also pointed out the hypocrisy of 'sustainable success' that they have to have some success first. And how much Adams has lied to cover for Pegula's budget.

I listen to far more Sabres/Hockey podcasts than is healthy. This is my favorite.

 

[BFLO]

I honestly do not think that Adams has an on-ice budget. I truly believe that Adams didn't spend to the cap on his own accord.

Tell me that Pegula enforced an off-ice budget? Yeah, I'll COMPLETELY buy that one.

If Adams made the choice himself not to use the $50-$60m in cap that he's left on the table over the last 5 years then he's substantially more incompetent than even the most pessimistic of us have feared.

Which also makes Pegula even more incompetent for allowing it to continue for 5 years.

 

[sabremike]

If the team was deliberately attempting to lose games and fail what exactly would they have done or be doing differently? Other than trade Dahlin for draft picks I really can't think of much.

 

[SundherDome]

If Adams made the choice himself not to use the $50-$60m in cap that he's left on the table over the last 5 years then he's substantially more incompetent than even the most pessimistic of us have feared.

Which also makes Pegula even more incompetent for allowing it to continue for 5 years.

Who was he going to spend it on though? Big name FA's weren't going to come here, even for an overpay. It was even reported that Hall didn't have many suitors and none at the 8 million dollar figure. He handed out big extensions, so he wasn't adverse to spending the money.

Having cap space doesn't equal incompetence as you can look at Washington who was way over the cap but removing LTIR and retained salary they would only have spent 4-5 million more than us last year.

 

[BFLO]

Who was he going to spend it on though? Big name FA's weren't going to come here, even for an overpay. It was even reported that Hall didn't have many suitors and none at the 8 million dollar figure. He handed out big extensions, so he wasn't adverse to spending the money.

Having cap space doesn't equal incompetence as you can look at Washington who was way over the cap but removing LTIR and retained salary they would only have spent 4-5 million more than us last year.

Should have spent it on Ullmark and Reinhart in 2020 when they had the chance, before they both wanted out in 2021. Would have been a huge improvement to the roster and way better than sitting on $50-$60m in cap space.

Short term overpays on mid tier and low end UFAs would have been a huge improvement over sitting on $50-$60m in cap space. We could have then also retained on their salaries and traded them away at the deadline for more draft/trade capital.

Getting paid in draft/trade capital to take on "bad" contracts would have been a huge improvement over sitting on $50-$60m in cap space. Some of the players we could have been paid to take on might have even turned it around and been useful themselves. Gostisbehere and Monahan being the two biggest examples that come to mind, but there have been quite a few others. We could have then also retained on their salaries and traded them away at the deadline for more draft/trade capital or re-signed them.

Even if spending it didn't directly improve our record in any of those 5 seasons, $50-$60m buys a lot of draft/trade capital that we could have used to improve in the future and we didn't even try.

Like if Adams was really all in on the Draft as being the way to improve the team, then he should have used all of the available resources to maximize his draft capital. He didn't do that.

 

[Mattilaus]

If the team was deliberately attempting to lose games and fail what exactly would they have done or be doing differently? Other than trade Dahlin for draft picks I really can't think of much.

They wouldn't have picked Reimer back up when the Ducks put him on waivers.

That's all I've got.

 

[jd1970]

If the team was deliberately attempting to lose games and fail what exactly would they have done or be doing differently? Other than trade Dahlin for draft picks I really can't think of much.

Change "team" for "players".

 

[debaser66]

I honestly do not think that Adams has an on-ice budget. I truly believe that Adams didn't spend to the cap on his own accord.

Tell me that Pegula enforced an off-ice budget? Yeah, I'll COMPLETELY buy that totally agree, I think he is just plain not up to the task.
Some rookie GMs are really getting it.
Adams is the opposite.

 

[debaser66]

I don't think there is a hard budget either. I just think there are expectations set early in terms of spending and Kevyn very clearly communicates his plan and Pegula rubber stamps it.

He is told what his budget 'range' is and knows not to ask to exceed it.




I think its similar to the on ice stuff. Adams simply doesn't ask because he has been told he needs to be economic and efficient. He knows he didn't get this job on his merits.

I think he mainly has the job because Pegula is a paranoid oligarch and doesn't trust anyone from outside any more after the Botterill/Murray sagas he just promoted Kevin because he seems to respect his wish to put a stamp on all decicions and not cross the line.
He is basically a Yes man without any leadership skills. Perfect.

 

[Krieger Bot]

Who was he going to spend it on though? Big name FA's weren't going to come here, even for an overpay. It was even reported that Hall didn't have many suitors and none at the 8 million dollar figure. He handed out big extensions, so he wasn't adverse to spending the money.

Having cap space doesn't equal incompetence as you can look at Washington who was way over the cap but removing LTIR and retained salary they would only have spent 4-5 million more than us last year.

The proof lies in his unwillingness to facilitate other trades by taking on salary in exchange for draft picks. It is a virtual certainty that GMs like Eric Tulsky have called Adams to see if he would retain salary on players like Rantanen in exchange for picks. Time and time again Adams has declined, despite having ample cap space available. Why would he do that? He may not be a competent GM, but he's not literally a ward of the state who sits in the corner and drools all day. If someone offers him free draft picks, he'll take them. But he can't. Because there's a budget.

 

[SundherDome]

The proof lies in his unwillingness to facilitate other trades by taking on salary in exchange for draft picks. It is a virtual certainty that GMs like Eric Tulsky have called Adams to see if he would retain salary on players like Rantanen in exchange for picks. Time and time again Adams has declined, despite having ample cap space available. Why would he do that? He may not be a competent GM, but he's not literally a ward of the state who sits in the corner and drools all day. If someone offers him free draft picks, he'll take them. But he can't. Because there's a budget.

I don't think there is a budget tbh. I am also not a big supporter of being the third party in trades to take on salary for a mid level pick. When the stakes were higher and 1st, 2nd and 3rds were being tossed around, sure, I would listen. The pool is deep and mid to late round picks don't have a ton of value on moving around.

Holding money and helping other teams for mid to late round picks just isn't a game I would get involved in if I were a GM.

 

[Chainshot]

I don't think there is a budget tbh. I am also not a big supporter of being the third party in trades to take on salary for a mid level pick. When the stakes were higher and 1st, 2nd and 3rds were being tossed around, sure, I would listen. The pool is deep and mid to late round picks don't have a ton of value on moving around.

Holding money and helping other teams for mid to late round picks just isn't a game I would get involved in if I were a GM.

Buying draft picks is still just that - getting more kicks at the can. They have never done it. Now, Bill Guerin did undercut the market terribly one year but if there is no budget - or at least Adams is not actively trying to save money for the boss - they could've had additional selections. The best way to get players in the later half of the draft is to have more picks. They haven't done that.

 

[SundherDome]

Buying draft picks is still just that - getting more kicks at the can. They have never done it. Now, Bill Guerin did undercut the market terribly one year but if there is no budget - or at least Adams is not actively trying to save money for the boss - they could've had additional selections. The best way to get players in the later half of the draft is to have more picks. They haven't done that.

I get the philosophy I just wouldn't participate unless it really gave me an advantage. I wouldn't be in the business of helping teams facilitate trades and do cap gymnastics unless it hurts them a bit to do so. The value of cap space/cap dumps has dropped over the last few years.

Not trying to change anyone's mind just highlighting another perspective that I imagine a few GM's may have that isn't driven by a budget.

 

[Chainshot]

I get the philosophy I just wouldn't participate unless it really gave me an advantage. I wouldn't be in the business of helping teams facilitate trades and do cap gymnastics unless it hurts them a bit to do so. The value of cap space/cap dumps has dropped over the last few years.

Not trying to change anyone's mind just highlighting another perspective that I imagine a few GM's may have that isn't driven by a budget.

The advantage is having more picks. That's it. Put the trust in the staff to identify a deep list. And Guerin lead the devaluation of the space but it's still amazing to see teams competing yet able to find additional picks through the use of a couple hundred thousand dollars. It's a systemic advantage that only costs cash. And this team doesn't do it.

 

[DJN21]

The advantage is having more picks. That's it. Put the trust in the staff to identify a deep list. And Guerin lead the devaluation of the space but it's still amazing to see teams competing yet able to find additional picks through the use of a couple hundred thousand dollars. It's a systemic advantage that only costs cash. And this team doesn't do it.

so you trust our scouts to put that blown money to use? If you do then you are right. If you are skeptical of our drafting ability then you are wrong....

 

[Chainshot]

so you trust our scouts to put that blown money to use? If you do then you are right. If you are skeptical of our drafting ability then you are wrong....

Again, how is it "blown". It's making a purchase for an additional pick.

 

[DJN21]

Again, how is it "blown". It's making a purchase for an additional pick.

I mean we need a new stadium more than a 5th rounder that'll never see the show lol but

 

[Chainshot]

I mean we need a new stadium more than a 5th rounder that'll never see the show lol but

This isn't a zero sum game for most teams.

 

[ForsbergMoDo21]

I get the philosophy I just wouldn't participate unless it really gave me an advantage. I wouldn't be in the business of helping teams facilitate trades and do cap gymnastics unless it hurts them a bit to do so. The value of cap space/cap dumps has dropped over the last few years.

Not trying to change anyone's mind just highlighting another perspective that I imagine a few GM's may have that isn't driven by a budget.

I don’t see how this isn’t a good strategy unless the retention is beyond the current year (which it usually isn’t because this type of trade is typically for playoff teams to squeeze rentals onto the roster) or if you yourself are big game hunting and are up against the cap and the extra salary would prevent you from making an add for the second half of your season.

 

[BFLO]

I mean we need a new stadium more than a 5th rounder that'll never see the show lol but

So you're saying that there is a a budget and that the reason we haven't purchased draft picks is because of the budget. Thanks

 

[DJN21]

This isn't a zero sum game for most teams.

is for us like it or not

 

[DJN21]

So you're saying that there is a a budget and that the reason we haven't purchased draft picks is because of the budget. Thanks

you're welcome? Its not my money lol direct your anger at the wallet holder....

 

[SundherDome]

I don’t see how this isn’t a good strategy unless the retention is beyond the current year (which it usually isn’t because this type of trade is typically for playoff teams to squeeze rentals onto the roster) or if you yourself are big game hunting and are up against the cap and the extra salary would prevent you from making an add for the second half of your season.

I don't want to help other teams without it hurting. I don't want to help Las Vegas acquire a player that will really help them out and I need to retain 600k. If you offer a 3rd, I'd probably do it. If you offer a 5th, I'm hanging up. Again, just my philosophy. I understand the inverse theory of buying draft picks it just isn't something that I would be in the business of.

 

[BFLO]

you're welcome? It’s not my money lol direct your anger at the wallet holder....

Part of the conversation at hand was whether or not Pegula had imposed a budget on Adams. You had been agreeing with the other points of the guy who said there was no budget.

 

[TehDoak]

The advantage is having more picks. That's it. Put the trust in the staff to identify a deep list. And Guerin lead the devaluation of the space but it's still amazing to see teams competing yet able to find additional picks through the use of a couple hundred thousand dollars. It's a systemic advantage that only costs cash. And this team doesn't do it.

I think its more important to get those extra picks when you are actively using the early round picks to acquire players.

How many pick for players trades have we seen under Adams? Greenway, Malenstyn, and now the pick in the Norris deal.

The issue under Adams is we've used too many picks, so I'm not upset we haven't added more.

The real issue is Adams is unwilling to help other teams to facilitate deals. That is just relationship building across the board. The NHL is a pretty small circle and you can see where GMs friends get preferential treatment. Adams is an outsider because its not like he came up in another organization with guys who are now GMs or on other staffs elsewhere. The only relationships he has are from his time as a player. I love what Grier is doing in San Jose because he's willing to help other teams now while his team is in building mode and has space. He's planting seeds now he hopes to harvest later by building working relationships.

Adams unwillingness to help teams out by taking on a meh contract for a year or two or use the cap space to pick up an extra pick is him not playing the relationship game with other GMs. Its hard to quantify if there is a real value attainable value to it, but the fact he's struggled to get many trades done speaks to a difficulty to working with other teams.