News Article: The Leafs are the best, just unlucky

[yubbers]

We're not cursed. MLSE keeps making horrendous management mistakes. Which is pretty hilarious if you think about it considering we have the deepest pockets.

Dubas is perhaps the most comical f*** up in decades though. And that's saying a lot. Imagine running a fortune 500 company and passing on qualified ppl to hire some dude you met in a community college cafeteria. That talked A big game about a new progressive way of doing business. That's basically what MLSE did.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Except for the part where this has been an ongoing problem since 1993. This problem is older than the current owners, forget about the current management. A rebuild would almost definitely lead to the next team doing the same shit. They need to figure out WHY the team has played like this for three decades before they do anything.

I’m not so sure about 93. Had Kerry Fraser not put his whistle up his ass and instead called the highsticking penalty on Gretzky, I think we would have beaten LA and faced Montreal.
I believe if we had different management, people who would not kiss the players’ asses while bending over backwards, be fair but come down hard on someone when they needed it, we would see a team that could succeed.

 

[TOGuy14]

"Leafs just got unlucky" - for five years in a row?

"They don’t have a single bad contract on the team" - Mitch Marner is talented but 0 goals in 18 playoffs games and 0 PPG in the last 72 games at 11M a season is a bad value contract

 

[mydnyte]

"Leafs just got unlucky" - for five years in a row?

"They don’t have a single bad contract on the team" - Mitch Marner is talented but 0 goals in 18 playoffs games and 0 PPG in the last 72 games at 11M a season is a bad value contract

Marner needs to work on his shot ..a LOT.
Matthews didnt have a one timer, and he learned how to use one.

Marner would be more like Kane/Kutch if only he had a decent shot, and was an actual threat from the 1/2 boards, sadly, right now he doesnt, and he isnt.
He's more of an Oates passing to his version of Hull.
When they were using Matthews as the main option on the PP, it was #1 in the league, then for whatever reason they decided to change the formula, and that just didnt work.

Just like "New Coke" sucked, you dont mess with what works.

If the PP clicked, MTL went home, if we didnt hit a bunch of posts MTL went home, if Hyman wasnt on the top line MTL went home.
Sure, we were unlucky, but, you can make your own luck, and the loss is on the coaching staff, and the players, not because of luck.

Last nights game was a great example ...3 posts, a 4min PP (though split, which may have saved MTL's season) and TB didnt execute, it wasnt 'bad luck' it wasnt the lack of killer instinct, but, it was MTL being opportunistic.
They didnt outplay TB, they didnt 'deserve' to win, they just won a few shifts, and, thats all they needed.

I also blame the really poor refereeing (in all aspects vs both teams) calls and non-calls that were unexplainable, starting in the 1st with Staal grabbing TJ around the head and holding him back on a partial breakaway, and no-call, which set the tone for a stupid ref night.

 

[Zack47]

The original post in this thread needs a mathematical lesson in what luck is. Luck is random, by definition. It can't explain... what.. five first round losses in a row. There are deeper issues with this team, and pointing at one or two people will not solve the problem.

Our players are OFTEN over valued when they are here and UNDER valued when they leave. Here are some examples: Morgan Rielly is over valued. He should be traded. I watched him closely this year and the truth is he makes too many defensive mistakes, regularly. After watching the Islanders defense, and yes, the Canadiens and the Lightning, it is clear our defense is not good enough. That Islander defense core: big, fast, skilled, consistent. We need that. And no people, stop saying Sandin and Lillegren can be the third defense pair: Lillegren is a bust, and Sandin is too small and gets pushed around.

Our third line is WAY over valued. It is weak. We gave up Kadri, Johnsson, Kapanen, Brown, and replaced them with people who can't score. It changes the whole team ,and especially how the first two lines can play.

Marner is not worth 11 million. He should re-sign and give back 3 million to the Leafs. Yeah, right, good idea. He will never score 30 goals. I really don't think he is big enough to play playoff hockey.

I love Jack Campbell, but we need a balanced 1-2 combination. We need to have the choice. Not Freddie. At least he did not lose this year's playoff.

This year's loss was the worst yet, and so the biggest signal. We are not close, people. There are multiple issues. Trade Marner for multiple players in return. Get Kadri back. Get a real number one defenseman. Get a good young goalie. Oh, salary cap? I forgot. Could be a problem.....

 

[Subway Schenn]

LOL.

Just needed to come in here and laugh at the title, don't even need to give the link a click...

 

[The CyNick]

You make your own luck.

 

[Bluelines]

We're not cursed. MLSE keeps making horrendous management mistakes. Which is pretty hilarious if you think about it considering we have the deepest pockets.

Dubas is perhaps the most comical f*** up in decades though. And that's saying a lot. Imagine running a fortune 500 company and passing on qualified ppl to hire some dude you met in a community college cafeteria. That talked A big game about a new progressive way of doing business. That's basically what MLSE did.

This is not unusual with a mega corporation/ organization. The guy/gal/board who hires the President had to have the knowledge to know what a successful President needs to do to be successful. Then the President needs to know what it takes to hire a GM who has all the tools to build a winner.

I think we have all seen a person who has a great resume, top schools, all the industry certifications you could possible want and when it comes time to actually doing the work, they are at best Meh!. Shanny who has Stanley Cups, individual awards, worked at the NHL head Office, great resume but that does not necessarily mean he is qualified for the job as President. Same goes for Dubas, great resume but is he really an elite NHL GM?

You talk about someone who talks of a big game and is hired to be an executive. I personally know of a situation where this acquaintance of mine was able to talk his way into becoming a Vice President of a major US based internet company here in Canada. I knew him through friend, we would have the occasional beers together, the last time we had beers, I remember him showing me his PI license (Security Guard). Fast forward a few years later a buddy of mine says, remember this guy, I'm like yeah.. my buddy say, he just got fired from X company for stealing from company X and to boot he was a VP and he told them he had this Masters in Business from some high profile University in the US. The truth was he barely had his grade 12, bad student but good talker. Long story short, if you have the gift of gab you can pretty much write your own ticket, I wouldn't suggest fraud or theft as part of your resume but, yeah it happens.

 

[yubbers]

This is not unusual with a mega corporation/ organization. The guy/gal/board who hires the President had to have the knowledge to know what a successful President needs to do to be successful. Then the President needs to know what it takes to hire a GM who has all the tools to build a winner.

I think we have all seen a person who has a great resume, top schools, all the industry certifications you could possible want and when it comes time to actually doing the work, they are at best Meh!. Shanny who has Stanley Cups, individual awards, worked at the NHL head Office, great resume but that does not necessarily mean he is qualified for the job as President. Same goes for Dubas, great resume but is he really an elite NHL GM?

You talk about someone who talks of a big game and is hired to be an executive. I personally know of a situation where this acquaintance of mine was able to talk his way into becoming a Vice President of a major US based internet company here in Canada. I knew him through friend, we would have the occasional beers together, the last time we had beers, I remember him showing me his PI license (Security Guard). Fast forward a few years later a buddy of mine says, remember this guy, I'm like yeah.. my buddy say, he just got fired from X company for stealing from company X and to boot he was a VP and he told them he had this Masters in Business from some high profile University in the US. The truth was he barely had his grade 12, bad student but good talker. Long story short, if you have the gift of gab you can pretty much write your own ticket, I wouldn't suggest fraud or theft as part of your resume but, yeah it happens.

Talking is half the battle in business. But yeah.... lying on your resume is a bad idea.

That being said.... I've worked with many people that have MBAs and other fancy diplomas I'm surprised are able to dress themselves they're so useless.

 

[Bluelines]

Talking is half the battle in business. But yeah.... lying on your resume is a bad idea.

That being said.... I've worked with many people that have MBAs and other fancy diplomas I'm surprised are able to dress themselves they're so useless.

Talking is 99% of the business... when I was a young man I watched this guy, who was dumb as a tree stump (from a book smarts perspective) but had the gift of gab and was always prepared to answer any questions, he talked circles around his manager, eventually he became manager, then Director ... I lost contact with him after that. That was a life lesson for me, you better be quick on your toes and anticipate your bosses questions (be prepared) or you are going to be a bottom feeder for the rest of your life.

I went to school with one lady, passed all her IT certifications (A+/ CNA/CNE) easily, but put her in front of a PC/server... she was like deer in headlights, she got the yips... I was the opposite, put me in front of a PC/server and I would do what ever my instructor asked us to do, I was able to analyze and fix any problem he gave me. When it came to the Certs, I got the yips and messed up. Took me 3 times to pass my CNA.

 

[hoglund]

"Leafs just got unlucky" - for five years in a row?
I think of the 5 years that you're referring to they did get unlucky for 3 of them, but the last 2 Matthew and Marner were missing in action. This past season could be arguably unlucky because they lost their captain and the extra offense that probably would have won the 1st round.
"They don’t have a single bad contract on the team" - Mitch Marner is talented but 0 goals in 18 playoffs games and 0 PPG in the last 72 games at 11M a season is a bad value contract

 

[ITM]

Unlucky is a tough way to reconcile this last series. Vegas and the Islanders notwithstanding, the Canadiens earned their place. We petrified what luck we might have had through hard work.

I'm not going to lump in losses to Boston and Washington as being equivocal to this year. And there are reasons to point to being charitable as to why this year may have been somewhat "unlucky".

And the proof is in this consideration, that our club while young was very young and inexperienced before. Lost to champions who do and should be able to make the kind of luck that wrestles defeat away from teams that aren't and probably couldn't be expected to be ready to win.

Because had we experienced five straight years of this type of implosion, I think the fanbase would be in shocking disrepair. The four years preceding are understandable. This year, isn't. We should make the distinction so that if this really does continue, the fans can pivot back to a starting point without justification.

Hate using the term, but next year is a big year. And it might be the one before Year Zero if what happened this year repeats.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

This is not unusual with a mega corporation/ organization. The guy/gal/board who hires the President had to have the knowledge to know what a successful President needs to do to be successful. Then the President needs to know what it takes to hire a GM who has all the tools to build a winner.

I think we have all seen a person who has a great resume, top schools, all the industry certifications you could possible want and when it comes time to actually doing the work, they are at best Meh!. Shanny who has Stanley Cups, individual awards, worked at the NHL head Office, great resume but that does not necessarily mean he is qualified for the job as President. Same goes for Dubas, great resume but is he really an elite NHL GM?

You talk about someone who talks of a big game and is hired to be an executive. I personally know of a situation where this acquaintance of mine was able to talk his way into becoming a Vice President of a major US based internet company here in Canada. I knew him through friend, we would have the occasional beers together, the last time we had beers, I remember him showing me his PI license (Security Guard). Fast forward a few years later a buddy of mine says, remember this guy, I'm like yeah.. my buddy say, he just got fired from X company for stealing from company X and to boot he was a VP and he told them he had this Masters in Business from some high profile University in the US. The truth was he barely had his grade 12, bad student but good talker. Long story short, if you have the gift of gab you can pretty much write your own ticket, I wouldn't suggest fraud or theft as part of your resume but, yeah it happens.

Good points. I will add that I don't think just because Dubas did ok with the Soo greyhounds that it made him a good NHL GM. A lot of people assume because someone got more than expected out of something that if they had even more stuff...they would knock it out of the park. It doesn't work that way. Babs is an example of that. If you gave him an under achieving team...he could make it over achieve and seem decent. He also could take a team that is talented and water it down to his level of comfort like he did with the Leafs. He should have won way more than 1 cup in detroit...plain and simple.

So, in saying that, I do think that people believe if someone did ok with less...he will automatically do more with more. That as we see with Dubas is not the case...so far.

 

[Jmo89]

We're not cursed. MLSE keeps making horrendous management mistakes. Which is pretty hilarious if you think about it considering we have the deepest pockets.

Dubas is perhaps the most comical f*** up in decades though. And that's saying a lot. Imagine running a fortune 500 company and passing on qualified ppl to hire some dude you met in a community college cafeteria. That talked A big game about a new progressive way of doing business. That's basically what MLSE did.

The Leafs always try to reinvent the wheel. Then when that fails they go back to methods that are proven to be successful... Only the roster sucks at that point so they still fail.

 

[Lightsol]

LOL.

Just needed to come in here and laugh at the title, don't even need to give the link a click...

Well, except for the part where HamiltonNHL didn't post the actual title of the article, but rather one he made up to make it sound stupider...

 

[Suntouchable13]

If the guys in charge are scared to healthy scratch a future Hall of Famer who is way past his prime then we're in trouble.

 

[Bluelines]

Good points. I will add that I don't think just because Dubas did ok with the Soo greyhounds that it made him a good NHL GM. A lot of people assume because someone got more than expected out of something that if they had even more stuff...they would knock it out of the park. It doesn't work that way. Babs is an example of that. If you gave him an under achieving team...he could make it over achieve and seem decent. He also could take a team that is talented and water it down to his level of comfort like he did with the Leafs. He should have won way more than 1 cup in detroit...plain and simple.

So, in saying that, I do think that people believe if someone did ok with less...he will automatically do more with more. That as we see with Dubas is not the case...so far.

What we could be witnessing with Dubas/Shanny is called the Peter Principal or Peters Plateau.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Reading some of these pro current core/Dubas posts. it amazes me how quickly the fog of the last debackle fades, and everything is positive and rosey again in Leaf Land. Face it...this team is built wrong, unbalanced and with a cancer or two and his father present in the room. Core, if you want to call it that,has to be broken up if to move forward. The most useless piece of the 4 with value is Marner. Move him. On the back end, with the emergence of Sandin, flip Reilly. This is a business. Goal is to win championships, not just one playoff round.

 

[GoBuds14]

Listen I don’t like this core, they aren’t engaged in the playoffs, seem entitled, and seem to lack the killer instinct in the biggest moments. Those Gilmour and Sundin era teams were full of heart and passion and if you’re old enough to remember those teams, it’s really hard to get behind Matthews and Marner. The winning franchises like Tampa, Pens, Caps, Hawks all had star players that rose to the occasion in the playoffs, that’s the difference. Despite all this I think everyone including Habs fans deep down know that if Tavares doesn’t go down the Leafs win that series in 4 or 5, despite a spineless Leafs 1st line. With Tavares, the lines 2-4 were more than enough. This series should be looked at as a blessing for Toronto, it either lights a fire under the big boys, or if they fail next year it should be very apparent it’s time to make significant changes, next season should be this cores last stand

 

[ShaneFalco]

If the guys in charge are scared to healthy scratch a future Hall of Famer who is way past his prime then we're in trouble.

or if they give in to Mitch's rumoured PP demands

 

[Mess]

What we could be witnessing with Dubas/Shanny is called the Peter Principal or Peters Plateau.

Hey great minds must think alike as I posted this earlier as my opinion on this.

Have you ever heard of the Peter Principle, because that is what I feel we might be dealing with here in Toronto?

The Peter Principle is an observation that the tendency in most organizational hierarchies, such as that of a corporation, is for every employee to rise in the hierarchy through promotion until they reach a "level of respective incompetence". Employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another.

Successfully managing or coaching an OHL junior team, without a salary cap and finding success is much different as Dubas/Keefe are finding out rather painfully at the NHL level. Both young management employees look to be over their heads and out of their comfort zones. Where seasoned GMs, experienced crafty player agents, and successful coaches are taking them to task. IMO

I've often referred to this as Dubas is book-smart but not street-smart and the streets are winning. He talks and speaks in theory what he might have learned in a book, or what the numbers in a spreadsheet might result in, but in the real world things are not always as they seem, and now he's learning through the school of hard knocks instead.

 

[deprw]

We're not cursed. MLSE keeps making horrendous management mistakes. Which is pretty hilarious if you think about it considering we have the deepest pockets.

Dubas is perhaps the most comical f*** up in decades though. And that's saying a lot. Imagine running a fortune 500 company and passing on qualified ppl to hire some dude you met in a community college cafeteria. That talked A big game about a new progressive way of doing business. That's basically what MLSE did.

Well he was a failure, since he couldn't predict that his three top guns will combine for 1 goal in series we were one win away from going forward.

 

[rumman]

Well he was a failure, since he couldn't predict that his three top guns will combine for 1 goal in series we were one win away from going forward.

He signed all the players to generous contracts based on what I can only assume were HIS projected expectations, instead of real world success. Sorry Team Dubas members it’s all on him.

 

[FraumBallard]

The management team shouldn’t care what the fans think.

I’d be worried if they did.

Tampa didn’t blow it up after a humiliating loss and they won the cup the next year. I know it’s a different team but blowing it up isn’t always the answer.

Wrong.
We are not anywhere near as good as Tampa.
Amazing you think we are.
Wow.

 

[FraumBallard]

Print whatever you like.
Only 2 things are true.

1. Dubas and this core are good enough
2. Dubas and this core are not good enough

Clocks ticking and most likely in 3 years (or less) the true one will be known.

3 more years of Wonder Boy?
Never happen.
We miss the playoffs next year ( likely ).
Wonder Boy is gone.
Thank God.