The Leafs are flawed
- Thread starter LDN
- Start date
TMLBlueandWhite
Toxic Marner Is Toxic
- Feb 2, 2023
- 2,037
- 2,097
It's called one step back, two steps forwards.
The fans shouldn't be willing to accepted continued mediocrity. Just making the playoffs every year and hoping for the best shouldn't be the goal. That's not what the fans were promised.
What the fans want is simple.
We want what we were promised. A contending team. That means going deep in the playoffs every year.
Or we want accountability.
To the mediocre belongs mediocrity. Because mediocrity is a choice. And once you accept it you can be sure more will follow.
If this organization and it's fans have developed a loser mentality that's on the losers that continue to lower expectations to meet the shitty results.
Shanahan and Tanenbaum.
Losers.
There's no perfect team - the Leafs are annually a playoff team.
Do the leafs have flaws? Would it be nice to be a model of the Vegas, Tampa, Boston, Carolina? Sure.
But there are worse positions to be in then an annual playoff team - Atleast try to enjoy the ride before we have to go into rebuild mode - then we won't even have that.
Do the leafs have flaws? Would it be nice to be a model of the Vegas, Tampa, Boston, Carolina? Sure.
But there are worse positions to be in then an annual playoff team - Atleast try to enjoy the ride before we have to go into rebuild mode - then we won't even have that.
- Dec 12, 2017
- 25,181
- 11,816
After 6 years this team has the same type of flaws that have prevented them from having playoff success.
At least they a different set of eyes looking at the problems. I have little confidence he can fix them but we know the last guy couldn’t.
Well, he put up 13pts in 37 games playing with a competent 4th line.
This year playing with dollar store Kapanen and the worst player in the league he has not been great, although he outplayed Kampf in that role.
He is a smart two-way player who can put up decent points if giving the chance.
I assume people just skipped last year if they think the best version of him is what they've seen this year.
Gary Nylund
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2013
- 31,203
- 24,643
The team is setting records for underachieving. With all the young talent we had 6 years ago, I thought the chances of winning the cup by now were excellent and instead, we've only won one playoff series. If you're happy because "there are worse positions to be in" then be happy but IMHO that's setting the bar way too low.
hotpaws
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2009
- 22,064
- 6,652
The off season adds haven't been good so far outside of Domi who's played better than some are saying but these adds are much better than what Dubas spent his money on in the offseason .
Jarry - 5yrs x 5.375m
EK - 4yrs x 10m
Graves - 6yrs x 4.5m
Acari - 3yrs x 2m
Eller - 2 yrs x 2,45m
Neto - 2yrs x 900k
at least he hit on trading a 3rd for Smith who's producing but he also traded a 1st and 2nd in the EK trade which is going to bite him in the ass if the Pens don't turn it around
Dubie has burdened the Pens with long term cap anchors unlike Tre who's mistakes will be gone after this year
Jarry - 5yrs x 5.375m
EK - 4yrs x 10m
Graves - 6yrs x 4.5m
Acari - 3yrs x 2m
Eller - 2 yrs x 2,45m
Neto - 2yrs x 900k
at least he hit on trading a 3rd for Smith who's producing but he also traded a 1st and 2nd in the EK trade which is going to bite him in the ass if the Pens don't turn it around
Dubie has burdened the Pens with long term cap anchors unlike Tre who's mistakes will be gone after this year
Last edited:
- Feb 24, 2003
- 29,961
- 3,055
11 games in and it does feel Treliving went out and made additions that didn't take into context the rest of the roster.
First, they sign Reaves. In my view, a huge mistake in and of itself. 3 years for the worst forward in the league because you think he provides a psychological advantage internally and externally that's already be shown to be demonstrably false. But, hey, let's accept the premise briefly, and think it out further. You sign Reaves you are admitting you're willing to have a vulnerable 4th line that can't be trusted in big minutes.
So...then you sign Bertuzzi AND Domi, two players, who even if they're cooking aren't strong defensively and need their own sheltering in D-Zone minutes. This, to be added to a team where you're probably hoping to have a defensive presence on a Nylander/Tavares line so give THEM a bit of protection when they're not clicking offensively. It's an imbalanced forward group, and even after last night it's hard to put together a series of lines that doesn't lean HEAVILY on the top line to play their legs off.
And then they sign Klingberg...a powerplay specialist who needs protection 5-on-5. So you need to lean more on 5 guys who when healthy includes Lilijegren who hasn't had consistent burn over an entire season of being a capable Top-4 and Gio WHO IS 40 and is going to be a bit of a mystery box at this point.
The Leafs are going to have to make a couple of significant decisions to at the very least over some balance and stabilization to the team. Definitely hoping a Robertson/Domi/Jarnkrok can provide a line that can just stick together and be consistent.
First, they sign Reaves. In my view, a huge mistake in and of itself. 3 years for the worst forward in the league because you think he provides a psychological advantage internally and externally that's already be shown to be demonstrably false. But, hey, let's accept the premise briefly, and think it out further. You sign Reaves you are admitting you're willing to have a vulnerable 4th line that can't be trusted in big minutes.
So...then you sign Bertuzzi AND Domi, two players, who even if they're cooking aren't strong defensively and need their own sheltering in D-Zone minutes. This, to be added to a team where you're probably hoping to have a defensive presence on a Nylander/Tavares line so give THEM a bit of protection when they're not clicking offensively. It's an imbalanced forward group, and even after last night it's hard to put together a series of lines that doesn't lean HEAVILY on the top line to play their legs off.
And then they sign Klingberg...a powerplay specialist who needs protection 5-on-5. So you need to lean more on 5 guys who when healthy includes Lilijegren who hasn't had consistent burn over an entire season of being a capable Top-4 and Gio WHO IS 40 and is going to be a bit of a mystery box at this point.
The Leafs are going to have to make a couple of significant decisions to at the very least over some balance and stabilization to the team. Definitely hoping a Robertson/Domi/Jarnkrok can provide a line that can just stick together and be consistent.
First off Klingberg is a tradeable asset at TD. We can live with the Domi signing but Bertuzzi and Reaves look like both bad signings and bad fits.Then SAMsonov at $3.5 million as a horrible back up makes for a weak offseason. Traveling will be able to trade 2 but we have to improve defense and need a tough top 9 forward. Reaves is going to 13th forward soon.Its fixable but I don't think he can do it without moving one of the big 4.
Karlsson won't be an anchor.
They will try to contend this year and next and when Sid and Gino retire and they start the rebuild, his 10 mil will help getting to the cap floor.
He will also be good to help any young D to come along.
Jarry had better figure it out.
BallardEra
Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
The leafs are flawed. The sky is blue (sometimes), water is wet....and on and on we go.
But to stop jesting, yes they are. They are simply paying too much money to their top 4, leaving too little to fill out the rest of the roster.
This has been gone over on this board time and time again, but to rehash: your top 4 does not have any busts in it, but you have no bargains. Other teams in the league are getting close to the same production from their top 4 as the Leafs are (Jersey, Buffalo, Colorado, and others) but are paying 15%-25% less than Toronto is. With that 15% or more savings, they can do a LOT better job of filling out the rest of the roster. If Toronto is going to pay so much for their top 4 forwards, they have to consistenly produce 15%-25% more in terms of scoring than all those other teams. They certainly aren't making up for it by those guys hustling back into their own zone and breaking up plays.
This year you have 30 goals from those guys but they have noticably been slow getting back into their own zone.
Last year you got 146 from them.
The year before you got 156 from them.
Before that you got a 142 goal pace from them in an abbreviated season.
Those are great production numbers...IF you those guys are all defensively responsble all the time and/or you are not paying 20% more for them than most other teams.
Since you are paying so much for them, they are still 'good' numbers for the price you are paying..but 'good' doesn't get you to compete for the presidents trophy in the regular season and to be a team that makes frequent deep playoff runs.
But to stop jesting, yes they are. They are simply paying too much money to their top 4, leaving too little to fill out the rest of the roster.
This has been gone over on this board time and time again, but to rehash: your top 4 does not have any busts in it, but you have no bargains. Other teams in the league are getting close to the same production from their top 4 as the Leafs are (Jersey, Buffalo, Colorado, and others) but are paying 15%-25% less than Toronto is. With that 15% or more savings, they can do a LOT better job of filling out the rest of the roster. If Toronto is going to pay so much for their top 4 forwards, they have to consistenly produce 15%-25% more in terms of scoring than all those other teams. They certainly aren't making up for it by those guys hustling back into their own zone and breaking up plays.
This year you have 30 goals from those guys but they have noticably been slow getting back into their own zone.
Last year you got 146 from them.
The year before you got 156 from them.
Before that you got a 142 goal pace from them in an abbreviated season.
Those are great production numbers...IF you those guys are all defensively responsble all the time and/or you are not paying 20% more for them than most other teams.
Since you are paying so much for them, they are still 'good' numbers for the price you are paying..but 'good' doesn't get you to compete for the presidents trophy in the regular season and to be a team that makes frequent deep playoff runs.
This is not Philadelphia buddy, Torontonians have too much pride in their city to do any damage to it. Hell, if something should happen to break in the course of fans mobbing a street, you will hear a hundred sorry's and dudes will be setting up their 3D Printers ready to fix the broken parts.Leaf fans criticize the team for their lack of character, but the same can be said about them. Good riot after early playoff exit would definitely motivate MLSE to do something. Fire Shanny for example.
I remember the great Eastcoast power outage, had Argo tickets and the game got cancelled, and GO busses lined up downtown to take all the commuters home cause the trains and subways were down. You would think there would be looting and chaos, but no, it was orderly and civil. In fact, it made me have some pride in the city cause everyone was so kind to everyone else. People with generators were charging phones for free, and Neighbours that never talked to each other suddenly were seen talking and socializing helping each other as best they can.
You are not going to get a Riot in Toronto about the Leafs.... we had the Herold Ballard Era and that shit was criminal and there was no riot then.
For all the bitching about the Leafs, this is the first time that I remember this team having talent where you can actually hope for a cup. The Wendle Clark years were great, but those were not cup teams, they almost won a cup! ...but they certainly were not designed as showmanship hockey, if you wanted to see skill in those years, you watched the Detroit Red Wings, those teams played like teams play now but back in that era, crisp passing, and text book execution. The Leafs were a laughing stock and no one gave them a hope in hell back in those days, they won on sheer heart and the energy of the fans going crazy. Those Detroit series all the team did was disrupt and stuff the zone so that the Red Wings could not play their brand of hockey, we basically needed Foligno to score a goal with his butt to make it through a series. It was ugly, but that brand had a lot of heart, after a Marty McSorry on the front page with two black eyes, there was no stopping the group, well, till Gretzky.... but it's funny how those teams were not supposed to challenge for the cup, but did, and this team is supposed to challenge for the cup but has not.
