The growing disrespect of Mike Bossy

[Oddbob]

What are you talking about?
You can take ALL of The Great One's and Super Mario's rockets and give them to runners-up and Bossy will add only ONE Rocket to his case.

Yes, but are you taking into account some of the other rockets in that scenario go to those who were playing with either Wayne or Mario? It would have been darn hard for even a decent goal scorer, not to rack up a ton playing with them. Bossy had pretty good teammates, but no one even close to those 2.

 

[Albatros]

Umm, what about the other seasons, you mentioned 1 year. His numbers after Gretz dropped, then he got traded back to Gretzky who soon after suffered a back injury and was no longer the Great One as he was, and Kurri's numbers continued to fall.

Gretzky got traded in 1988 so it's completely natural to compare Kurri's 1987/88 season with Gretzky to his 1988/89 season without Gretzky. A general decline over multiple subsequent seasons was only due to the fact that he had passed his peak getting older like any player would (and this included time in LA reunited with Wayne). But at the point when he was 28 and was fed by Tikkanen and Messier instead of Gretzky that change made no difference whatsoever.

 

[Oddbob]

Gretzky got traded in 1988 so it's completely natural to compare Kurri's 1987/88 season with Gretzky to his 1988/89 season without Gretzky. A general decline over multiple subsequent seasons was only due to the fact that he had passed his peak getting older like any player would (and this included time in LA reunited with Wayne). But at the point when he was 28 and was fed by Tikkanen and Messier instead of Gretzky that change made no difference whatsoever.

Yeah, that is one season though. Almost guaranteed it doesn't stay that way without Gretzky.

During Bossy's career without the best player ever:

Bossy: 752 GP 573 G

Kurri with Gretzky during that same stretch:

Kurri: 520 GP 354 G

Gretzky during this time:

Gretz: 632 GP 534 G

Even without Gretzky, when it came to scoring Bossy was darn close to Gretzky himself in goals during his playing career. Switch Kurri with Bossy, and Bossy probably cruises to 800 with ease, while Kurri would be hard pressed to get 500.

 

[Oddbob]

Even Glen Anderson who didn't really play with Gretz that much as far as I know, had 301 goals in that same period in 522 games played or only 2 more than Kurri.

 

[doublechili]

Using "the high-scoring 80s" to diminish Bossy's numbers does him a bit of a disservice. He played for Al Arbour on a team that stressed defensive responsibility. He did not play in a run and gun system, and every forward on that team had to be an all-around player. His C (Trottier) was once voted the best all-around forward in NHL history in a THN poll of executives and coaches [Bossy was also in the top 10 in that poll - he scored his points while playing both ends of the ice]. The point is, on a different team with a different coach playing a different system that didn't stress defense, Bossy probably would have scored more goals and points.

Also, numbers and award-counting aside, my own eyes tell me Bossy was the greatest pure goal scorer I've ever seen. He scored in every way possible and from all over the offensive zone: slap shots skating down the wing, wrist shots, backhands, deflections (Canada Cup OT winner was one of many), etc.. But mostly that deadly fast release on his snap shot. And, not a knock but a fact, the offense was not designed to run through him to set him up for his shot from "his spot". He scored his goals in the context of organic puck movement and play, again from all over the offensive zone. And he set up his teammates with his great passing as much or more than he scored himself.

If I could pick an all-time 5 man unit to put on the ice with my team tied with a minute left in the game, and my life depended on the outcome, I would want Mike Bossy to be the RW. No question about that one.

 

[Albatros]

I don't know if Kurri was a better scorer than Bossy, but he was a very complete hockey player more akin to Trottier and would have succeeded in any environment.

 

[Randyne]

Yes, but are you taking into account some of the other rockets in that scenario go to those who were playing with either Wayne or Mario? It would have been darn hard for even a decent goal scorer, not to rack up a ton playing with them. Bossy had pretty good teammates, but no one even close to those 2.

Then OP quotes would look like this:
"Bossy is penalized because he is being compared to Gretzky's and Lemieux's linemates"
"Bossy is dumped on because he had to compete with The Great One's and Super Mario's linemates"
It's a whole another story. Sounds like disrespect of Bossy.

 

[Plural]

This season is akin to the 80s. You're right about a few years ago, but 80s scoring is overinflated according to kids on here. It was similar to this season.

What the hell? Don't know if I constitute as a kid (80's born) but what you wrote above is just a blatant lie.

 

[Plural]

Compare today's top 10 with the 80s Oilers-removed top 10. You'll understand how good players were, kid. It's not about GPG. It's about distribution.

Oh good god....just stop or do the comparison yourself. You really think no-one has ever checked how much Gretz/Oilers inflated the overall 80's scoring? Here's a hint to you: it's marginal

 

[Plural]

I don't know if Kurri was a better scorer than Bossy, but he was a very complete hockey player more akin to Trottier and would have succeeded in any environment.

Definitely not better scorer. He was pretty f***ing good though. Somebody once wrote here, and I'm paraphrasing "Kurri's ability to let Gretzky completely neglect defense is the single most impressive non-statistical offensive feat of the 80's".

 

[CascadiaPuck]

Yes, but are you taking into account some of the other rockets in that scenario go to those who were playing with either Wayne or Mario? It would have been darn hard for even a decent goal scorer, not to rack up a ton playing with them. Bossy had pretty good teammates, but no one even close to those 2.

Not saying he's the same tier as Gretzky or Lemieux, but Bossy's Art Ross/ Hart-winning line mate Bryan Trottier was a bit more than "pretty good".

 

[Oddbob]

Not saying he's the same tier as Gretzky or Lemieux, but Bossy's Art Ross/ Hart-winning line mate Bryan Trottier was a bit more than "pretty good".

Certainly, no doubt he had good teammates, and no slight to Trottier who was darn good, but as was mentioned, the Isles played less run n' gun and more defensively, and Gretzky was in a league of his own.

 

[ScaredStreit]

-2 Richards (5 without Gretzky)
-9 50 goals seasons in a row
-2nd player to reach 50 goals in 50 games
-4 cups
-Sound defensively

I'm not saying he's the goat at scoring goals...but let's be honest: Gretzky have dominated anybody-yes even OV-if their careers overlapped with his.

Take away Gretzky and 5 Richards in 9 years, 9 50+ seasons in a row is enough to put him into the argument. I don't think he's 2nd of all time due to injuries limiting him to a short career, but there really is a case for him being about on par (or just a little bit below) OV.

It's funny how people argue against Bossy due to his raw stats, but then use raw stats (Richards) to argue against him.

 

[Plural]

-2 Richards (5 without Gretzky)
-9 50 goals seasons in a row
-2nd player to reach 50 goals in 50 games
-4 cups
-Sound defensively

I'm not saying he's the goat at scoring goals...but let's be honest: Gretzky have dominated anybody-yes even OV-if their careers overlapped with his.

Take away Gretzky and 5 Richards in 9 years, 9 50+ seasons in a row is enough to put him into the argument. I don't think he's 2nd of all time due to injuries limiting him to a short career, but there really is a case for him being about on par (or just a little bit below) OV.

It's funny how people argue against Bossy due to his raw stats, but then use raw stats (Richards) to argue against him.

There's an ongoing project at HFHistory where they re-do the top-100 players all-time. Ovechkin was ranked at 22nd and Mike Bossy was 36th. Surprisingly enough, Phil Esposito landed between them (being the only "goal-scorer" in between OV and Bossy) at 27th.

Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time

I think I'll go and read the threads where they discussed players ranked at 22nd to 36th. I don't agree with many of the arguments there, but there's a lot of meat in the threads to chew on. A lot.

 

[Nickmo82]

I've literally never seen a single comment bashing Mike Bossy.

 

[BallardEra]

How long before we see "The Growing Disrespect of Ovechkin" topic?

 

[elmaco]

Yawn

 

[ScaredStreit]

What are you talking about?
You can take ALL of The Great One's and Super Mario's rockets and give them to runners-up and Bossy will add only ONE Rocket to his case.

So Kurri would beat Bossy in goals if Gretzky never played? Interesting...

I don't know if Kurri was a better scorer than Bossy, but he was a very complete hockey player more akin to Trottier and would have succeeded in any environment.

Bossy was a good defensive player.

 

[WJCJ]

Rockets:
Ovechkin/Bobby Hull: 7
Esposito: 6
Gretzky/Howe/Richard: 5
Lemieux/Brett Hull: 3
Bossy: 2

GPG wins:
Ovechkin/Bobby Hull: 8
Lemieux: 6
Esposito/Richard: 5
Gretzky/Howe/Brett Hull: 3
Bossy: 1

Combined:
Ovechkin/Bobby Hull: 15
Esposito: 11
Richard: 10
Lemieux: 9
Gretzky/Howe: 8
Brett Hull: 6
Bossy: 3

Bossy sticks out like a sore thumb. He is a top 10 scorer all time, but a clear #2 of his era behind Gretzky. The problem is when people try to "argue" that the #2 of his era is the GOAT. It's like if someone tries to argue that Stamkos > OV. We all know Stamkos is great and he won his rockets, but OV is clearly better proven by peak and prime. Just like Gretzky was clearly better than Bossy.

Basically if anyone says Bossy is the GOAT, that's overrating him. If they say he's not top 10, that's really underrating him.

I feel that this needs to also mention that Mike Bossy has the highest goals per game average in the history of the NHL.

 

[Plural]

I feel that this needs to also mention that Mike Bossy has the highest goals per game average in the history of the NHL.

While I don't try to discredit Bossy, it's important to note that Bossy played his career exclusively at the highest era of scoring AND he played exclusively on his prime years. From start to beginning. That's as perfect as a storm as it can be.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I’ve noticed over the past couple of years, particularly with the ascent of Ovechkin up the goal scoring charts, that Bossy seems to get disrespected quite a bit on these boards.

It’s something I never came across but lately, I’ve noticed passing comments here and there about how so and so is better than Bossy, Bossy is not a top 5 goal scorer, I wouldn’t take Bossy, he’s overrated and so on.

Very vague, almost devoid of any substance type comments. Also seems like it has gained some traction with others and just gets parroted around in some sort of groupthink mindset.

Simple question, why?

Well, more and more I get the sense that a lot of posters believe the all the GOATs are currently playing.
It's like hockey never existed prior to 2010 or so.

He was an amazing scorer. Whether people want to believe it or not.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Bossy is the greatest pure goal scorer I have ever seen play the game, he was also a 2 way player whose career was cut short because he paid the price to score a goal. Also was a winner, 4 cups, and Team Canada championships. He would be #1 on my list as pure snipers go. Much respect.

 

[Plural]

Well, more and more I get the sense that a lot of posters believe the all the GOATs are currently playing.
It's like hockey never existed prior to 2010 or so.

He was an amazing scorer. Whether people want to believe it or not.

Funny. Cause I have a feeling that some old timers are way too nostalgic. It's all about the POV. And I appreciate older generation players too. From Morenz to Shore.

 

[BallardEra]

While I don't try to discredit Bossy, it's important to note that Bossy played his career exclusively at the highest era of scoring AND he played exclusively on his prime years. From start to beginning. That's as perfect as a storm as it can be.

Very true.

Bossy played 10 seasons and had scored at a .761 goals per game rate. (573 goals/752 games)

After his first 10 seasons, Gretzky was scoring at a .823 goals per game rate. (637 goals/774 games)

Gretzky played an additional 10 seasons after that while Bossy never played again.

 

[txpd]

Rockets:
Ovechkin/Bobby Hull: 7
Esposito: 6
Gretzky/Howe/Richard: 5
Lemieux/Brett Hull: 3
Bossy: 2

GPG wins:
Ovechkin/Bobby Hull: 8
Lemieux: 6
Esposito/Richard: 5
Gretzky/Howe/Brett Hull: 3
Bossy: 1

Combined:
Ovechkin/Bobby Hull: 15
Esposito: 11
Richard: 10
Lemieux: 9
Gretzky/Howe: 8
Brett Hull: 6
Bossy: 3

Bossy sticks out like a sore thumb. He is a top 10 scorer all time, but a clear #2 of his era behind Gretzky. The problem is when people try to "argue" that the #2 of his era is the GOAT. It's like if someone tries to argue that Stamkos > OV. We all know Stamkos is great and he won his rockets, but OV is clearly better proven by peak and prime. Just like Gretzky was clearly better than Bossy.

Basically if anyone says Bossy is the GOAT, that's overrating him. If they say he's not top 10, that's really underrating him.

I think this is the same argument used against Nicklas Backstrom as a first ballot Hall of Famer. He hasn't won any individual awards. He sits 5th in scoring in the years of his career and 1st in assists(which might surprise some) yet Crosby and Malkin are ahead of him in scoring.

Bossy is great. No disrespect