The Great Dale Weise Debate (& other ex-Hawks) volume 3

[BK]

The only three things he could have realistically done would have been to not re-sign Seabrook after 2015 and instead trade him, Trade Hjalmarsson that offseason as well, and try to restock on defense.

IMO they could have still acquired AA. It would still really hurt on the back end, they probably wouldn't have made the playoffs in 2016 and 2017 but the forward depth would probably be incredible and young defensemen would have arrived via trade and the draft. Huge bonus is that the Hawks have both Saad and Panarin. Another option would have been to try to keep TT and unload one of the 2nds they got for Shaw in order to launch Bickell. (preferably the not DeBrincat one)
I think they could have received a crap ton for 4 and 7 in the summer 2015 offseason.

While they could have done (how you speak to it and the plan makes logical sense in a silo) that it would have been a weird move considering they were coming off a cup win. I think the backlash from a re-tool/rebuild at that point would have been much worse than it is now.

The key will be this draft and the free agents the team potentially signs. This could turn around rather quickly if (when imo) we hit in the draft/free agency. Our D core going forward has the potential to be really really good and mobile.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I would be interested if someone matches Tallon's trades in Florida up with what Bowman did here during the same time period. different situations no doubt, but curious to see how well Tallon did with trades during his time in Florida.

History of hockey trades by general manager Dale Tallon - NHL Trade Tracker
History of hockey trades by general manager Stan Bowman - NHL Trade Tracker

 

[Hawkaholic]

No point in even comparing Tallon and Bowman, Bowman is clearly better. At least Bowman didn't give away 2 60+pt players to Vegas in the draft.

And Bowman schooled Tallon in the last two trades they made.

 

[Pez68]

Tallon gave away 2 60+ point players...and the Jack Adams winner. Don't forget firing Gallant. A move that was pretty much unanimously thought of as moronic. If Vegas goes all the way, they should put Tallon's name on that cup too.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Tallon gave away 2 60+ point players...and the Jack Adams winner. Don't forget firing Gallant. A move that was pretty much unanimously thought of as moronic. If Vegas goes all the way, they should put Tallon's name on that cup too.

I thought Tallon was demoted and then they made that Gallant move? I could be mistaken.

 

[Pez68]

I thought Tallon was demoted and then they made that Gallant move? I could be mistaken.

President of hockey operations most certainly has something to do with the firing of the head coach, no?

 

[Hawkaholic]

President of hockey operations most certainly has something to do with the firing of the head coach, no?

In normal circumstances, yes. But this situation was different by the sounds of it. He was moved from GM to President of hockey operations, but it was viewed as more of a demotion than a promotion. I really don't believe he had a say in it.

 

[Pez68]

Regardless, I have no idea what that organization is doing. They should just sell the team and move it.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Regardless, I have no idea what that organization is doing. They should just sell the team and move it.

Another owner sticking his nose in when he shouldn't.

I just listened to the interview between Freidman and Tom Rowe (Panthers GM at the time). Tom said he got a call throughout the game from the owner (Viola), and he was asking what is going on with the team (they blew a 2-0 lead against Carolina), and he said he wasn't sure. The owner told him to call him after the game and make sure Gerard is on the phone with him. Sounds like Tallon was left out of the loop on that one.

Sounds like the owner is more to blame than anyone.

 

[Pez68]

Believable. He's a pretty world class POS.

 

[AmericanDream]

History of hockey trades by general manager Dale Tallon - NHL Trade Tracker
History of hockey trades by general manager Stan Bowman - NHL Trade Tracker

thanks some interesting moves there. Tallon had some real good moves and some real bad moves, go figure right???

 

[jls24]

Kempny with his first postseason goal. His ice time keeps going up, avg almost 18 min of ES time per game.

 

[featherhawk]

so Kempny can't make Q's roster but yet is a top 4 defender for the Caps; how can this happen given that Q is such a competent, hall of fame coach....

oh I know, he was a competent, hall of fame coach; in addition to that Q does not have enough common sense to understand what adaptation means, freaking idiot.

I hope to hell he is fired after game 1 of the season, this team and organization is doomed if he is the coach for more than the first 20 games next season.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I remember when Pirri and Hayes fanboys were all over this board bashing Q

Why are Pirri and Hayes not praised anymore as great Q mistakes? Kempny is average bottom pairing defender at best and is not missed as Hawks have plenty of mediocre defenders like him in organization

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I remember when Pirri and Hayes fanboys were all over this board bashing Q

Why are Pirri and Hayes not praised anymore as great Q mistakes? Kempny is average bottom pairing defender at best and is not missed as Hawks have plenty of mediocre defenders like him in organization

There is no reason the Hawks should have moved Kempny for a pick when they need a 3LHD. They went with the inferior player in Gustafsson. Now, if Colliton was promoted to HC and he wanted his guy, then sure, keep Gus over Kempny. But Q hates them both. The main argument that can be made is Kempny is a UFA in July and had no intent to re-sign. But that still falls on Q. He’s the one that benched Kempny after they acquired Oduya. And it was during a period where the Hawks had just won like 10+ straight and the Kempny-Seabrook pairing was their best possession pair.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

There is no reason the Hawks should have moved Kempny for a pick when they need a 3LHD. They went with the inferior player in Gustafsson. Now, if Colliton was promoted to HC and he wanted his guy, then sure, keep Gus over Kempny. But Q hates them both. The main argument that can be made is Kempny is a UFA in July and had no intent to re-sign. But that still falls on Q. He’s the one that benched Kempny after they acquired Oduya. And it was during a period where the Hawks had just won like 10+ straight and the Kempny-Seabrook pairing was their best possession pair.

Not a good argument as you say Q is not a fan of either guy

Gus is 100% a Bowman guy so if Bowman viewed him as longterm option (And likely cheaper then Kempny) it was Stanley who ultimately should be blamed

 

[ChiHawks10]

I remember when Pirri and Hayes fanboys were all over this board bashing Q

Why are Pirri and Hayes not praised anymore as great Q mistakes? Kempny is average bottom pairing defender at best and is not missed as Hawks have plenty of mediocre defenders like him in organization

Do you ever wonder why you're like one of only two people on here who has this opinion of Kempny? Are you some otherworldly judge of talent and we're all morons? Or is it more likely you just have no idea what you're talking about with Kempny?

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Not a good argument as you say Q is not a fan of either guy

Gus is 100% a Bowman guy so if Bowman viewed him as longterm option (And likely cheaper then Kempny) it was Stanley who ultimately should be blamed

Kempny had no reason to re-sign regardless of how Bowman felt about him. If Bowman liked him but had an inclination he was not interested then trading him for a 3rd was the right move.

 

[ClydeLee]

I still don't get how Q allegedly doesn't like Gus. But plenty times that gets thrown around because I guess if you dont get top time somehow it means that.

I don't get people willingly talking Kempny up so much, surely hes better than that old Oduya but hes not even at oduya #4 legit quality yet.

But Q often has always had, 2 years back and this year praise to the passing of gus and his game in the ozone.

 

[JaegerDice]

Q likes Gus more than Kempny because Kempny is more comfortable skating the puck out of the zone, while Gus is a fairly good breakout passer.

Dmen skating the puck out of the dzone is basically forbidden by Q, which is a big part of why his system is falling behind in an increasingly fast skating league, and why guys like Kempny and Daley go on to play top 4 minutes for cup contenders.

 

[Teemu]

 

[BK]

Wonder when it happened.

 

[Teemu]

 

[AmericanDream]

Buff has been destroying fools all playoffs long...God I miss that man on this team

 

[pvr]

Buff has been destroying fools all playoffs long...God I miss that man on this team

The one player who really should have been kept, BWC assertions notwithstanding.