The "Gimmick" Teams Are The Best Part of WCOH

[Zippy316]

It's a problem when it's considered a World Cup and marketed as the successor to the 96' and 04' Word Cups that didn't have gimmick teams.

I like how all 8 teams are competitive, minus possibly the Czech's because their is a big gap in talent after the from the guys that are now in their mid-to-late thirties and the players currently in their primes, but it's not a World Cup. It's a glorified all-star tournament.

If you want a glorified all-star tournament, don't call it a World Cup.

 

[g00n]

If the NHL came up with a brand new tournament in 2016 and decided to call it "World Cup" then no-one would be in arms about it. The issue is that they made the decision to take an existing competition (since 1976, called "World Cup" since 1996) and turn it into something fundamentally different while pretending it's still pretty much the same. It used to be a proper international tournament and now it's a cross between the Spengler Cup and the NHL All-star game. It might be good and entertaining hockey, but the pretense it's a legit resumption of the Canada Cup/World Cup is a travesty.

That's impossible, then. There's no point in coming up with two nearly identical tournaments from the same source. It's a slight change with two teams of young stars added. Call them U23 All Stars, it doesn't really matter.

There were only 5 Canada Cups (trophy retired), and then the WC took over. Since then there have been only 2 in the last 20 years, and even then they added teams. What grand tradition and history is being trampled here? There's almost nothing to speak of. It's an NHL event that changes even less than the NHL does, judging by how often it's held.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If the NHL came up with a brand new tournament in 2016 and decided to call it "World Cup" then no-one would be in arms about it. The issue is that they made the decision to take an existing competition (since 1976, called "World Cup" since 1996) and turn it into something fundamentally different while pretending it's still pretty much the same. It used to be a proper international tournament and now it's a cross between the Spengler Cup and the NHL All-star game. It might be good and entertaining hockey, but the pretense it's a legit resumption of the Canada Cup/World Cup is a travesty.

Well, to be fair I think some people would still be up in arms about it no matter what the name as that is only one of their objections. I think "travesty" is a bit strong, it's just marketing and pretty much anything goes in marketing, aren't we all used to that by now?

 

[CrypTic]

Yeah Torts being the coach makes it a little easier to stomach the loss of Gaudreau. At least this way he's free to unleash his creativity and awesomeness. On Team USA he would probably play with some combo of Kesler/Abdelkader/Dubinsky and be told to focus on blocking shots.

To me, having Torts as the coach makes it worse bc I think they may not have picked Torts as coach if they could have had Eichel and Gaudreau. Maybe they decided to go with grit (i.e., Torts and the type of players he'd choose) after they learned that they couldn't take some of their top talent (and thought that they weren't deep enough to play as a talented team without it).

The tournament is fun. I like Team NA and Team Europe. As a fan, that's what matters most to me.

I agree with others that having a competitive Team USA would have been better for gaining casual fans in the US. It sounds like the "gimmick teams" might be hurting viewers in Europe too, although having it on at 1 AM (and in some places, on pay only) hurts too. We may not a Team NA again, at least one where Team USA gets no shot at those top players, so I'm enjoying it while I can.

 

[Loffer]

Quite right, the "gimmick" teams are the salt of this "watered down" tournament.

After all, we live the era of "post nationalism" and true international, federal and global time which has transpassed the "artificial" boundaries of national states and rendered the global community a interconnected whole with larger geographic, cultural or ideological entities people identify themselves with with increasing numbers and intensity.

 

[Theokritos]

That's impossible, then. There's no point in coming up with two nearly identical tournaments from the same source. It's a slight change with two teams of young stars added. Call them U23 All Stars, it doesn't really matter.

It's not just a slight change, it does away with two basic principles of the competition: it's neither a proper international tournament anymore (since it's involving two teams that are not national teams) nor is it a best-on-best tournament any longer as (for the first time since 1976) the tournament setup does not allow all participants to pick any of their nationals as they see fit.

Well, to be fair I think some people would still be up in arms about it no matter what the name as that is only one of their objections. I think "travesty" is a bit strong, it's just marketing and pretty much anything goes in marketing, aren't we all used to that by now?

You wouldn't have half (!) of the hockey fans here refusing to accept this tournament as a best-on-best, that's for sure. Speaking of that half: obviously the answer to your question is no, roughly 50% are not simply contemplate with what the NHL marketing department feeds them.

 

[bert]

This tournament so far has been extremely fun to watch. The gimmick teams have added to the excitement. The pace of play has been simply incredible.

That being said, at the same time because of the gimmick teams, I could care less who wins this thing at the end of the day. It's not a true "World Cup". And it won't ever be with the gimmick teams, that's just the way it is.

But that won't prevent me from being entertained along the way.

Couldnt have said it better myself. I am indifferent with almost every result (outside of the US but thats because of Torts and the team they selected). Loving the hockey so highly entertaining.

 

[Analyst365]

Quite right, the "gimmick" teams are the salt of this "watered down" tournament.

After all, we live the era of "post nationalism" and true international, federal and global time which has transpassed the "artificial" boundaries of national states and rendered the global community a interconnected whole with larger geographic, cultural or ideological entities people identify themselves with with increasing numbers and intensity.

A true federal time ... is your essay due tonight?

 

[Rebels57]

The amount of negativity on display at this forum towards this tournament is absolutely pathetic.

Lighten up and just enjoy some ****ing hockey. Or don't, and let the people that want to enjoy it without raining on their parade.

 

[hitmen19]

I actually saw 10 mins of Russia vs TNA last night and the spectacle was as bizarre as I thought it would be.

That's fine then. The people that watched saw a great game, and had an exciting time. The people that didn't watch hopefully had an exciting time watching whatever else was on tv or doing something else. Don't know why all the people need to come and point out specifically that they aren't watching. It does nothing to the people that are watching. My enjoyment of todays CAN USA game is going to not get affected one bit on how many others are watching the game

 

[Rebels57]

That's fine then. The people that watched saw a great game, and had an exciting time. The people that didn't watch hopefully had an exciting time watching whatever else was on tv or doing something else. Don't know why all the people need to come and point out specifically that they aren't watching. It does nothing to the people that are watching. My enjoyment of todays CAN USA game is going to not get affected one bit on how many others are watching the game

Exactly.

 

[Dfire]

That's fine then. The people that watched saw a great game, and had an exciting time. The people that didn't watch hopefully had an exciting time watching whatever else was on tv or doing something else. Don't know why all the people need to come and point out specifically that they aren't watching. It does nothing to the people that are watching. My enjoyment of todays CAN USA game is going to not get affected one bit on how many others are watching the game

I'm curious why you think that is a problem.

This is a forum where people can state their opinion. Most people who stated that they don't watch it explain why they choose to do so. Just like the ones who state they watch it tend to explain their decision. Wanting either side to just shut up seems ignorant to me.

By the way, I choose to not watch it because
- My country is not represented
- I share the opinion that this is not a relevant international hockey tournament (which is due to the inclusion of non-nations, unfair selection restrictions, lack of prestige, and lack of interest from the general public)

 

[zeke]

It's not just a slight change, it does away with two basic principles of the competition: it's neither a proper international tournament anymore (since it's involving two teams that are not national teams)

wtf does "proper international" mean and why should we care?

nor is it a best-on-best tournament any longer as (for the first time since 1976) the tournament setup does not allow all participants to pick any of their nationals as they see fit.

please there are two players - mcdavid and gaudreau - that would have been picked for their NTs, and both would have been life and death to keep a bottom line spot.

meanwhile, the two new teams ensure there is far more BEST talent in this tourney than there has ever been in history.

You wouldn't have half (!) of the hockey fans here refusing to accept this tournament as a best-on-best, that's for sure. Speaking of that half: obviously the answer to your question is no, roughly 50% are not simply contemplate with what the NHL marketing department feeds them.

Seems like its your 50% that let's themselves be influenced by this 'NHl/Bettman" idea, not the others. You guys are the ones who knee jerk hate anything new they ever try, even though they're almost always a good idea in the end.

everybody hated expansion. then everybody hated the cap. then everybody hated shootouts. then everybody hates 4-on-4. then everyone hated no touch icings. now everyone hates the world cup.

just silly nonstop kneejerk bettman hate that makes no sense, and looks stupid in retrospect every single time.


Try to understand this - us people who like this tournament don't like it because the NHL says to like it, we like it because it's the best fricken hockey talent tournament imaginable.

You guys are the ones who keep bringing up NHL and BETTMAN every time you post about this tournament - we couldn't care less about them.

 

[Osprey]

I'm having the most fun pulling for Team Europe and watching Team North America, so I would agree that they're "the best part of the WCOH." That said, I feel that it's because the meaningfulness of the tournament has been watered down, thanks to their inclusion, if that makes sense. The interest that I have in these two "gimmick" teams is coming at the expense of interest in the six other teams. I find that I just don't care about USA, Canada, Russia, Sweden and such nearly as much as I normally would (such as at the Olympics) because so much of the attention is going to the mixed teams. They're a huge distraction from what the tournament is supposed to be. They're definitely an entertaining distraction, but being entertained by them in no way means that I'm happy for it and would choose to see it happen again.

Consider this: what if the NHL made it so that the two wildcard playoff teams in each conference were not the 7th- and 8th-best teams in the conferences, but, instead, newly formed teams composed of players from the non-playoff teams. That would be highly entertaining, would it not? I would pull for such rag-tag teams of players who wouldn't otherwise be in the playoffs at all. At the same time, though, it would be an embarrassment to what the playoffs stand for, especially if those teams managed to get far. So, something can be entertaining and embarrassing at the same time.

 

[zeke]

Consider this: what if the NHL made it so that the two wildcard playoff teams in each conference were not the 7th- and 8th-best teams in the conferences, but, instead, newly formed teams composed of players from the non-playoff teams. That would be highly entertaining, would it not? I would pull for such rag-tag teams of players who wouldn't otherwise be in the playoffs at all. At the same time, though, it would be an embarrassment to what the playoffs stand for, especially if those teams managed to get far. So, something can be entertaining and embarrassing at the same time.

the NHL has a salary cap to maintain parity and competitiveness between for-profit private franchises.

they don't need to do anything more than that.

 

[Osprey]

the NHL has a salary cap to maintain parity and competitiveness between for-profit private franchises.

they don't need to do anything more than that.

Is it so hard to suspend disbelief, and not take things so literally, for a just a moment to try to understand the comparison being made? Imagine if it had been before the salary cap existed, if you absolutely need to.

 

[zeke]

the point is that there has never been near the talent discrepancy between nhl teams as there is between these world cup teams and other national teams.

 

[JackSlater]

wtf does "proper international" mean and why should we care?

It means between nations, unlike this tournament.

please there are two players - mcdavid and gaudreau - that would have been picked for their NTs, and both would have been life and death to keep a bottom line spot.

meanwhile, the two new teams ensure there is far more BEST talent in this tourney than there has ever been in history.

Your demonstrably wrong assumptions about layer selection aside, the NHL has even more of the "BEST talent" than this tournament, and yet everyone knows that NHL hockey isn't best on best. That's because maximum talent, like the NHL or the all star game, is not what best on best refers to.

Consider this: what if the NHL made it so that the two wildcard playoff teams in each conference were not the 7th- and 8th-best teams in the conferences, but, instead, newly formed teams composed of players from the non-playoff teams. That would be highly entertaining, would it not? I would pull for such rag-tag teams of players who wouldn't otherwise be in the playoffs at all. At the same time, though, it would be an embarrassment to what the playoffs stand for, especially if those teams managed to get far. So, something can be entertaining and embarrassing at the same time.

None of them will answer this directly. They enjoy this formerly significant tournament being turned into an all star exhibition, but they don't want the exact same thing to happen to the Stanley Cup playoffs.

 

[PsYcNeT]

I like how "proper nations" is supposed to mean something when there is twice the distance between Calgary and Vancouver than there is between Helsinki and Stockholm.

Arbitrary political delineations maaaan.

 

[Osprey]

the point is that there has never been near the talent discrepancy between nhl teams as there is between these world cup teams and other national teams.

Your points are beside the point. I'm not proposing that the NHL do that or am worried that they will, so reasons why it's not practical are not needed. I'm simply saying to imagine if it were the case, anyways, and how it might affect enjoyment of and perception of the playoffs for better or for worse.

 

[tony d]

It's been a great tournament so far just as I predicted it would be.

 

[Xokkeu]

I like how "proper nations" is supposed to mean something when there is twice the distance between Calgary and Vancouver than there is between Helsinki and Stockholm.

Arbitrary political delineations maaaan.

And St. Petersburg is closer to Helinski, try to walk between the two and see what happens.

 

[MTrangers]

Your points are beside the point. I'm not proposing that the NHL do that or am worried that they will, so reasons why it's not practical are not needed. I'm simply saying to imagine if it were the case, anyways, and how it might affect enjoyment of and perception of the playoffs for better or for worse.

But the difference is that the other teams in this tournament are pretty made up too. This isn't soccer where National teams actually practice and play throughout the year. The different between the US team and team NA are minuscule to me. They both were thrown together for THIS tournament. Being exposed on ESPN and being a precursor to the season I just want the most entertaining hockey. That's what's good for the game.

 

[chauron]

Team Europe is fine but the young guns is still a wacky concept.

 

[Xokkeu]

But the difference is that the other teams in this tournament are pretty made up too. This isn't soccer where National teams actually practice and play throughout the year. The different between the US team and team NA are minuscule to me. They both were thrown together for THIS tournament. Being exposed on ESPN and being a precursor to the season I just want the most entertaining hockey. That's what's good for the game.

USNDT Alumni:

Corey Schneider
Erik Johnson
Jack Johnson
Ryan Suter
Patrick Kane
Ryan Kesler
Kyle Palmieri
James Van Riemsdyk
John Gibson
Seth Jones
Jacob Trouba
Jack Eichel
Dylan Larkin
Austin Mathews
JT Miller
Brandon Saad


Combined GOLD medals of players on Team North America in international competition playing for USA HOCKEY:

17


Combined medals playing for Team North America: 0

Combined number of games played in USA HOCKEY team for players on team North America:

288

Combined number of games played for Team North America:

2