The Former Hab Thread - Part Infinity

[417]

You can love both you know. The habs are not a cult where you must love the habs and nothing else.

I realize that...and I'm still a fan of Subban the man, he's a tremendous hockey player and an even better human being. One of the few role models in professional sports that I'd be happy if my own son emulated.

But when it comes to hockey, he's an opponent so I don't wish him any success at all.

I'm all Habs, all the time...you're either with us, or against us.

Again, that's just how I'm built...I have no affection for players once they leave, in fact, the bigger stars they were in Montreal, the more I despise them when they leave.

I couldn't stand Patrick Roy after he got traded either.

 

[jaffy27]

Dont forget Radulove. He changes the team dynamic on his own.

I prefer GODULOV...LOL

Scherbak can be another one of these skilled guys but that remains to be seen

 

[Toene]

dont want to get between you two here, but we did exchange 2 or 3 post on the subban subject in an other thread

just want to point out to you that you often says to people to stick to fact ....wich is good but in this exact same post you do the opposite

quote...... "Again, pure speculation''

and then you go

quote.....'' He was loved and respected by most of the core of this team.''


is it not speculation too

Well it can become speculation if we decide to not trust the words of his teammates (Markov, Galchenyuk, Price, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Beaulieu, ex-Habs Weise, Smith-Pelley). But to say they all lie and repeat the party line is in itself speculation.

If another information comes out from directly from the locker room or from a source that has direct access I would concede something is wrong. I just stick to what they said and take it at face value until something comes out and can counter their words. That's what we should all do. Stick to whats available.

 

[Toene]

I prefer GODULOV...LOL

Scherbak can be another one of these skilled guys but that remains to be seen

Hudon man! He's coming I tell you.

 

[Hoople]

Well it can become speculation if we decide to not trust the words of his teammates (Markov, Galchenyuk, Price, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Beaulieu, ex-Habs Weise, Smith-Pelley). But to say they all lie and repeat the party line is in itself speculation.

If another information comes out from directly from the locker room or from a source that has direct access I would concede something is wrong. I just stick to what they said and take it at face value until something comes out and can counter their words. That's what we should all do. Stick to whats available.

Stick to what's available (absolute facts) to us hockey fans?

Ok.

Ice is cold.

 

[sandviper]

I realize that...and I'm still a fan of Subban the man, he's a tremendous hockey player and an even better human being. One of the few role models in professional sports that I'd be happy if my own son emulated.

But when it comes to hockey, he's an opponent so I don't wish him any success at all.

I'm all Habs, all the time...you're either with us, or against us.

Again, that's just how I'm built...I have no affection for players once they leave, in fact, the bigger stars they were in Montreal, the more I despise them when they leave.

I couldn't stand Patrick Roy after he got traded either.

This I can understand. I differ as I am a hockey fan so I got favorite secondary teams and favorite players outside Montreal, but I will not wish them any success when playing us. I am upset Stamkos is hurt, but do hope TB craps the bed now (as I hate them), though I think they are too talented to collapse.

Chelios wasn't the most enduring person, but he was my favorite Hab at the time. I wasn't too happy he got traded as well, but was still happy he continued to succeed outside the city. I hated Roy for example, but not because he was in Colorado, but because he forced his way off the team, granted, I hated Tremblay for putting us in that position.

I don't hate PK though because circumstances are different. I want him to thrive in Nashville, but certainly do not want him laying our guys out and scoring a hat trick when we play them.

I respect your opinion though as I can see where you are coming from. Look, I hated the PK trade but was happy we got Weber. I wish PK all the best and want to see him on the nightly highlight reels as hockey needs stars to grow the sport. While my true love are the Habs, we need stars outside our own bubble. If they are former Habs, so be it, so long as they don't kill us if I am making any sense.

 

[Newhabfan]

Again, pure speculation. It's not about being a PK fan, it's about restraining ourselves to jump on conclusions that are just not there. He was loved and respected by most of the core of this team. He didnt fit tactically, as said Price. That's what we know.

Your last paragraph is embarassing man. It's not about being in a camp. It's about havjng mature discussions about hockey. If you let yourself be caught in speculation so it fits your world views, how can a good debate be achieved?

Like I said, stick to what is available. You have no proof that these things you listed effected his team-mates. Per exemple it is not because players chose Max as a captain that PK was a bad option. It justs fits your narrative so you take what you want from it.

You see things in "camps", fans vs haters, good vs bad, etc. Sorry but it's obvious you're not in a set of mind to discuss properly.

You asked for facts - I gave you facts. He forced the Habs to give him that contract. He was not voted by team mates (the King Clancy award in particular can be seen as an anti PK vote). He was benched.

On your side you say he was loved - based on what ? On PR controlled public interviews where noone ever said anything bad about any player ever ?

Your last paragraphs are an exact proof of what I was saying about cheap internet board tricks. Instead of arguing against the content of my post (which I consider to be a "mature discussion about hockey") you try to turn me into a hate monger that chooses to divide people to invalidate what I was saying. That's "ad hominem".

I've been posting a bit on this board. I have never hated a player (maybe Kreider and Chara but that was another context). I wished all ex Habs to succeed, including Gomez, Komisarek, or Grabovsky. I feel bad for Gorges, Eller and Gionta right now. I don't feel that bad for PK because I know he's good enough as a hockey player to come back on top so I'm not that worried. I don't hate DD though I think it's time for him to go.
I label myself a "moderate". I've been labeled a lot of other names.

This summer, after the trade, was the first time I stopped reading and posting because the MT/MB/DD hate was unbearable ("mature discussion about hockey" for sure). I decided to post again after the season started hoping that a good team performance would bring fans together. I don't see it happening and it's sad. That's all.

 

[thewall]

In your opinion, how would this team of Ex-Habs fare in the 2016-17 NHL season?

Cammalleri-Ribeiro-Gionta
Bourque-Eller-Parenteau
Pouliot-Pyatt-Smith Pelly
White-Moore-Weise

Streit-Subban
Gorges-Weber
Hainsey-Gilbert

Halak
Condon

Id certainly add Vanek who would be on the top line and why not add the 2 Kostitsyn brothers.. both are still playing in the KHL. what about Prust? You could also add Huet to the mix. Still playing professional hockey in Europe.

 

[thewall]

Alex Kovalev has 3 goals and 5 assists in 6 games in the Swiss B league.

 

[417]

This I can understand. I differ as I am a hockey fan so I got favorite secondary teams and favorite players outside Montreal, but I will not wish them any success when playing us. I am upset Stamkos is hurt, but do hope TB craps the bed now (as I hate them), though I think they are too talented to collapse.

Chelios wasn't the most enduring person, but he was my favorite Hab at the time. I wasn't too happy he got traded as well, but was still happy he continued to succeed outside the city. I hated Roy for example, but not because he was in Colorado, but because he forced his way off the team, granted, I hated Tremblay for putting us in that position.

I don't hate PK though because circumstances are different. I want him to thrive in Nashville, but certainly do not want him laying our guys out and scoring a hat trick when we play them.

I respect your opinion though as I can see where you are coming from. Look, I hated the PK trade but was happy we got Weber. I wish PK all the best and want to see him on the nightly highlight reels as hockey needs stars to grow the sport. While my true love are the Habs, we need stars outside our own bubble. If they are former Habs, so be it, so long as they don't kill us if I am making any sense.

It's weird for me...the more I loved them as Habs players, the more I despise them when they're traded or sign with another team.

Like nothing could be worse for me than to see PK Subban lifting a Stanley Cup or winning a Norris in a Predators or any other teams jersey.

But that doesn't mean I hate him...the guy is a tremendous hockey player and great human being, you've got issues if you hate the guy for any reason other than him being on a team that plays against the one you cheer for.

 

[Newhabfan]

It's weird for me...the more I loved them as Habs players, the more I despise them when they're traded or sign with another team.

Like nothing could be worse for me than to see PK Subban lifting a Stanley Cup or winning a Norris in a Predators or any other teams jersey.

But that doesn't mean I hate him...the guy is a tremendous hockey player and great human being, you've got issues if you hate the guy for any reason other than him being on a team that plays against the one you cheer for.

There's nothing weird about that. It's part of the grieving process.

Love + loss = pain. Pain shows itself in many ways including anger. Anger is one of the stages of grieving.

The anger you feel is proportional with the love you had. "Grieving is a form of love" is a mantra used in therapy.

The solution - you welcome your anger as a reminder of your love, with no connection to the person you're angry at. You walk through the anger, then the sadness towards acceptance of reality. It will still hurt to see them succeed but it will not be out of anger - just plain sadness.

 

[Not The One]

Meanwhile, Lars "held back by Therrien" Eller had zero goals, zero assists and was + zero in the Caps' 7-1 drubbing of the Pens last night, with a little over 12 minutes of icetime.

He has 2 goals, zero assists and is -1 in 16 games on the year, while earning 4.25 M$ on a 3.5 M$ cap hit.

Say what you will about DD and Pleks, i think MB got rid of the right player. I can't believe we got two 2nd round picks out of that.

 

[sandviper]

It's weird for me...the more I loved them as Habs players, the more I despise them when they're traded or sign with another team.

Like nothing could be worse for me than to see PK Subban lifting a Stanley Cup or winning a Norris in a Predators or any other teams jersey.

But that doesn't mean I hate him...the guy is a tremendous hockey player and great human being, you've got issues if you hate the guy for any reason other than him being on a team that plays against the one you cheer for.

I hear you. Maybe if PK won a Norris or lifting the Cup in a Bruins jersey, I'd turn that TV off right quick.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes Subban was a tremendous player for us but he was also a polarizing one. He gets booed in most rinks. He hasn't moved on so why should we? Why do I owe Subban anything? I am a fan of the Habs, he is on another team and I couldn't care less if he succeeds or not.

The Subban sycophants were insessent that all he needed to do was get away from MT, play in a wide open system, amd he would thrive. He was succeeding in Montreal despite the org, remember that? The system - that was built completely around him - was holding him back. Well now is the time for him to show us all wrong.

Of course you guys want us to just go away but you guys pounded the MT/MB narrative down our throats the last 4 years. And if Subby was lighting it up and Weber struggling it would be unbearable in here. So you guys can suck it up, this is the only thread we are allowed to talk about Subban and Eller whereas you guys are aloowed to bash current players in every thread.

It will never end. It's one of the biggest trades in Montreal history and it will be talked about decades from now. People should accept that fact.

Personally, I love Subban. I still think it's a horrible trade for us and I still think Weber's grossly overrated. That being said I don't want him to fail. And Weber has (offensively anyway) been better than I hoped he would be. He's a Hab now.

I'll continue following Subban and continue cheering for him. But it'll be the same as when we traded away Roy... over time it will sting a little less.

Took Eller 14 games to make it to the 4th line. On pace for less than 10 mins tonight. I called it before the season that Beagle would leapfrog him.

Another guy I want to do well. In this case I thought he'd be doing better than he is offensively. Dannault has stepped up nicely here so that makes me feel better about losing him. I still think we'd have been better off keeping Eller for the 3rd and dealing Pleks in order to try to upgrade our 2nd line center though.

Meanwhile, Lars "held back by Therrien" Eller had zero goals, zero assists and was + zero in the Caps' 7-1 drubbing of the Pens last night, with a little over 12 minutes of icetime.

He has 2 goals, zero assists and is -1 in 16 games on the year, while earning 4.25 M$ on a 3.5 M$ cap hit.

Say what you will about DD and Pleks, i think MB got rid of the right player. I can't believe we got two 2nd round picks out of that.

Having seen Eller for four years, he's not a zero point player. I'm not sure what's happening over there but it's not like this guy has no talent. As I said above though, Dannault seems to have mitigated his loss.

 

[417]

There's nothing weird about that. It's part of the grieving process.

Love + loss = pain. Pain shows itself in many ways including anger. Anger is one of the stages of grieving.

The anger you feel is proportional with the love you had. "Grieving is a form of love" is a mantra used in therapy.

The solution - you welcome your anger as a reminder of your love, with no connection to the person you're angry at. You walk through the anger, then the sadness towards acceptance of reality. It will still hurt to see them succeed but it will not be out of anger - just plain sadness.

First of all...this was a beautiful post

Secondly, I'm not sure if I'm grieving about the trade, maybe I am...I'd like to say I'm completely over it, but maybe there's some unresolved feelings there.

 

[Whitesnake]

First of all...this was a beautiful post

Secondly, I'm not sure if I'm grieving about the trade, maybe I am...I'd like to say I'm completely over it, but maybe there's some unresolved feelings there.

For me, despite my criticisms of the management, the thing I hate the most is to lose a lopsided deal. For people who keep saying that the only thing I'm looking for is to be right so I'd crap on management couldn't be further from the truth. I don't want to be right. 'Cause there is no feelings worst than losing a trade badly, see us not do well, and see them doing well. And it all started with the John Leclair deal for me. Followed by the Roy deal. And the McDonagh one. Those deals just made me scared of seeing those kinds of deals and if we happen to send somebody who is doing well.....I'll pray real hard that the guy we got would do as good as the guy traded will. The best scenario is to see the guy we traded not do well. Sorry, but that's how I am. It could be a mental issue....don' t know...

I will admit this...I'm extremely happy to see DSP going back to his mediocrity. For Eller, I,m EXTREMELY surprised....but not dissapointed. For PK...well I chose him in my pool and somehow, I don't have the same sentiment....probalby because I know that with Weber, we have somebody really strong that could compensate for PK's success.

 

[scrubadam]

Meanwhile, Lars "held back by Therrien" Eller had zero goals, zero assists and was + zero in the Caps' 7-1 drubbing of the Pens last night, with a little over 12 minutes of icetime.

He has 2 goals, zero assists and is -1 in 16 games on the year, while earning 4.25 M$ on a 3.5 M$ cap hit.

Say what you will about DD and Pleks, i think MB got rid of the right player. I can't believe we got two 2nd round picks out of that.

Question is did you watch all the caps games .

Don't worry Eller can just blame DD for his lack of production/Ice time. Might as well continue on that tradition from MTL since he is continuing his patented Eller cold streaks.

 

[scrubadam]

It will never end. It's one of the biggest trades in Montreal history and it will be talked about decades from now. People should accept that fact.

Personally, I love Subban. I still think it's a horrible trade for us and I still think Weber's grossly overrated. That being said I don't want him to fail. And Weber has (offensively anyway) been better than I hoped he would be. He's a Hab now.

I'll continue following Subban and continue cheering for him. But it'll be the same as when we traded away Roy... over time it will sting a little less.

Another guy I want to do well. In this case I thought he'd be doing better than he is offensively. Dannault has stepped up nicely here so that makes me feel better about losing him. I still think we'd have been better off keeping Eller for the 3rd and dealing Pleks in order to try to upgrade our 2nd line center though.


Having seen Eller for four years, he's not a zero point player. I'm not sure what's happening over there but it's not like this guy has no talent. As I said above though, Dannault seems to have mitigated his loss.

Maybe MT isn't as horrible a coach you think and actually is able to get a lot out of his players rather than hold him back?

Wonder if PK misses the 26 minutes a game he got here under MT, or the 4:21 of PP time he got here. 80 seconds less on the PP, 2 minutes less ice total, seems like Lav's trying to make PK a better person?

 

[jaffy27]

First of all...this was a beautiful post

Secondly, I'm not sure if I'm grieving about the trade, maybe I am...I'd like to say I'm completely over it, but maybe there's some unresolved feelings there.

I don't miss him one bit....

Only players I'd miss would be Price, Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Radulov and Weber....to a lesser extent Emelin, just because I love how he plays, and he has my birth year on the back of his jersey, hence my avatar of Emelin destroying Statsny

 

[Toene]

You asked for facts - I gave you facts. He forced the Habs to give him that contract. He was not voted by team mates (the King Clancy award in particular can be seen as an anti PK vote). He was benched.

On your side you say he was loved - based on what ? On PR controlled public interviews where noone ever said anything bad about any player ever ?

Your last paragraphs are an exact proof of what I was saying about cheap internet board tricks. Instead of arguing against the content of my post (which I consider to be a "mature discussion about hockey") you try to turn me into a hate monger that chooses to divide people to invalidate what I was saying. That's "ad hominem".

You gave me facts that you interpreted your way. In themselves, they dont say anything more than what happened. Look at what you said. "The King Clancy can be seen as an anti-PK vote". Based on what? Your assumption. The fact here : players chose Pacioretty. The only thing it tells us is that they valued Pacioretty as a captain and honored his charity work.

Maybe they wanted to highlight what he did because Subban's pledge had already been publicized a lot. Maybe they find Subban is a bad teammate. You and I dont know that, so your "facts" dont confirm anything about him being a bad teammate BECAUSE of his philanthopist actions.


And the first ad hominem was on your part buddy. You implied I was a "Subban fan" that used cheap debating tricks to try to reduce the value of my stance on the matter. There is no need to do that. I'm not here to "win" anything. I just feel like pointing out false narratives based in speculation. Thats all. If we cant agree on what is a fact or not, then how can we have a good discussion on a subject?

PR controlled interviews? Galchenyuk said he was angry and that Subban was there for him as he helped him when he struggled. Signs of a good vet. Not sure they were happy he used the word "angry", but maybe it was all made up by the Habs PR department. We dont know. But why speculate the praise he got were lies?

 

[417]

Maybe MT isn't as horrible a coach you think and actually is able to get a lot out of his players rather than hold him back?

Wonder if PK misses the 26 minutes a game he got here under MT, or the 4:21 of PP time he got here. 80 seconds less on the PP, 2 minutes less ice total, seems like Lav's trying to make PK a better person?

Heeeyyyy....I see what you did there

 

[Not The One]

Having seen Eller for four years, he's not a zero point player. I'm not sure what's happening over there but it's not like this guy has no talent. As I said above though, Dannault seems to have mitigated his loss.

Oh but he WAS... and for longer stretches than 16 games. He just always had a few hot streaks to kind of balance it all. Note that he still has one year left on that contract too, and he'll actually be making close to 5 M$ next year. That's horrible for the Caps.

For a little update on DSP: He has 1 goal, 2 assists and is -4 in 13 games. He's had all his points in a span of three consecutive games and nothing before or since. He started out with 17 minutes of ice time and had 9 minutes in his last game. Sekac on the other hand seems to being doing rather well... in the KHL.

If we're assessing MB's trades at and since last year's deadline, it now looks like this:

Nsh - Win (Habs are winning, Preds are not)
Chi - Huge win (Neither Weise or Flash are still on the Hawks)
Wsh - Huge win (See above)
NJ - Win (Matteau earns half of what DSP makes)

Excepting Subban, the sum of the four ex-Habs traded is: 42 gp: 3g, 4a, 7 pts, -6 in the NHL. Danault alone has 9 pts in 17 games.

Good job Bergevin?

 

[Adriatic]

I don't miss him one bit....

Only players I'd miss would be Price, Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Radulov and Weber....to a lesser extent Emelin, just because I love how he plays, and he has my birth year on the back of his jersey, hence my avatar of Emelin destroying Statsny

Man I would hate to see Emelin on a different team. He looks like a such good soldier, never hear a peep out of him except when he annihilates someone and acts as if nothing happened lol.

 

[Adriatic]

Excepting Subban, the sum of the four ex-Habs traded is: 42 gp: 3g, 4a, 7 pts, -6 in the NHL. Danault alone has 9 pts in 17 games.

Good job Bergevin?

Wow that's crazy lol. God I'm happy we have MB as our gm.

 

[Yukon Cornelius Habs]

I realize that...and I'm still a fan of Subban the man, he's a tremendous hockey player and an even better human being. One of the few role models in professional sports that I'd be happy if my own son emulated.

But when it comes to hockey, he's an opponent so I don't wish him any success at all.

I'm all Habs, all the time...you're either with us, or against us.

Again, that's just how I'm built...I have no affection for players once they leave, in fact, the bigger stars they were in Montreal, the more I despise them when they leave.

I couldn't stand Patrick Roy after he got traded either.

I am wired exactly the same! I know how that goes.