The Former Hab Thread - Part Infinity

[sheed36]

Yah, those were two very sweet passes. I miss those kinds of plays. Subban may have his faults but man he is talented.

Those type of passes is something the Habs are really missing on their defense right now. Didn't MT say he inserted Hanley into the lineup because he wanted a puck moving dman in there instead of Pateryn.

Weber has been great but do you miss PK even a little bit MT when you see that puck movement from a D-man?

 

[OnTheRun]

The advanced stats gurus, the guys that solely believe in that and don't care about watching the game or understanding everything else BESIDES advanced stats, use that to prove a point. They go with who are succesful, and prove their point with advanced stats. I've rarely heard how people could say that they are just unlucky. How about going with..."well maybe advanced stats don't tell the whole story"???? How about not using that "poor guy he's unlucky" cop out? Is it because they'd unfortunately have to realize that advanced stats aren't the only bible to use? Why is it so difficult to just admit that while great the tool is....it might not be THE tool?

Can I also say that if a player has a bad advanced stat somewhere, that this could also be due to "luck"? Or it never work this way around? Unless....ANY stat from advanced to non, you can totally make them say what you want based on the side you are on?

The irony is the only peoples you will commonly see using stats as ABSOLUTES are the detractors of the said stats.

The first step to be a stats guru is to understand the limitation of statistical analysis.

 

[Whitesnake]

My point is that nobody only looks at stats and then declares what team is going to win. The stats can give you a good idea of how teams are doing but nobody I know is going to say "this team's corsi is better so they're going to win this game..." I agree with the point that it's a tool to be used, I just don't know of anyone who uses analytics and thinks it's the be all end all of things.

Well some are. Quite a few analytics GODS tells us how it's the start and end of everything. When the player they love are great, they go and use the advanced stats that prove it. When the player they love aren,t good enough, they say...he's unlucky. It's a boatload of crap.

Why can't I use the "unlucky" part when a Corsi isn't looking good? Or any other advanced stats?

When a player isn't doing as well YET as great advanced stats....instead of being a sign that the advanced stats don't tell the whole story, we hear how unlucky a player is. Just find it funny. That's all.

 

[Whitesnake]

The first step to be a stats guru is to understand the limitation of statistical analysis.

Well if they would come out and say it, I'd have no problem with it. When they come out and try to explain that they are just unlucky....I just find it dumb.

I have no idea why BOTH SIDES couldn't just agree that THE OTHER SIDE is really helpful but that it's just another tool. No idea why one side has to crap on the other....I don't even know why there is 2 sides to begin with....Why can't we be on the same side? Why can't we get along!!!!!!!!!!

 

[No fan fiction]

It's not a loosely held assumption... they were near the bottom three years in a row. It doesn't matter if they were dead last, bottom line is that it was **** poor. As DA said, quit nitpicking.

Since when is listing stats a form of picking nits? You only know they were near the bottom any year b/c listed the actual stats.

I'll quit posting actual stats when people quit guessing, especially if it's just to turn the out of town thread into another trumped up attack DD thread.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well some are. Quite a few analytics GODS tells us how it's the start and end of everything. When the player they love are great, they go and use the advanced stats that prove it. When the player they love aren,t good enough, they say...he's unlucky. It's a boatload of crap.

Why can't I use the "unlucky" part when a Corsi isn't looking good? Or any other advanced stats?

When a player isn't doing as well YET as great advanced stats....instead of being a sign that the advanced stats don't tell the whole story, we hear how unlucky a player is. Just find it funny. That's all.

Well, if you take one shot in a game and miss, were you unlucky? Is it different if you take ten shots in a game?

These guys use "lucky" simply to say that history has shown that players have an average shooting percentage of somewhere around 8 percent. Some may be higher some may be lower but on average it's going to be somewhere around there... So if you're generating a ton of shots for yourself and your teammates, you'd expect that you're going to generate a certain amount of goals. Sometimes it doesn't happen - those stats guys will call it unlucky - based on the belief that sooner or later the numbers will turn around if the shot generation remains consistent. And they are usually right. It's just the law of averages.

Now if we're talking specifically about Berkshire (I think somebody here recently said he wrote the PK was unlucky) I've found that he uses weird stats to prove his point sometimes. That's not to say I think he's an idiot but he seems to stretch to make a point and he doesn't seem to back down from anything. So if you're just talking about him, I could see where you're coming from.

 

[OnTheRun]

Well if they would come out and say it, I'd have no problem with it. When they come out and try to explain that they are just unlucky....I just find it dumb.

I have no idea why BOTH SIDES couldn't just agree that THE OTHER SIDE is really helpful but that it's just another tool. No idea why one side has to crap on the other....I don't even know why there is 2 sides to begin with....Why can't we be on the same side? Why can't we get along!!!!!!!!!!

Well there is a lot of baiting on both side that is true.

But hey, if you believe in stats, then you know a team with a ****** corsi is bound to win the cup at some point... because its statically possible.

But you also know when its going to happen all the detractors are going to call it "the final nail in the corsi's coffin" completely ignoring that other stat telling you that bad corsi team are 1in15 or 1in20 when it come to winning the cup.

 

[Whitesnake]

Well, if you take one shot in a game and miss, were you unlucky? Is it different if you take ten shots in a game?

These guys use "lucky" simply to say that history has shown that players have an average shooting percentage of somewhere around 8 percent. Some may be higher some may be lower but on average it's going to be somewhere around there... So if you're generating a ton of shots for yourself and your teammates, you'd expect that you're going to generate a certain amount of goals. Sometimes it doesn't happen - those stats guys will call it unlucky - based on the belief that sooner or later the numbers will turn around if the shot generation remains consistent. And they are usually right. It's just the law of averages.

Now if we're talking specifically about Berkshire (I think somebody here recently said he wrote the PK was unlucky) I've found that he uses weird stats to prove his point sometimes. That's not to say I think he's an idiot but he seems to stretch to make a point and he doesn't seem to back down from anything. So if you're just talking about him, I could see where you're coming from.

Yep, look at the RDS article from him...that's EXACTLY who I'm referring to.

 

[Whitesnake]

Well there is a lot of baiting on both side that is true.

But hey, if you believe in stats, then you know a team with a ****** corsi is bound to win the cup at some point... because its statically possible.

But you also know when its going to happen all the detractors are going to call it "the final nail in the corsi's coffin" completely ignoring that other stat telling you that bad corsi team are 1in15 or 1in20 when it come to winning the cup.

True.

 

[Habs Icing]

Vast majority of fans here were happy about Bergevin's hire, but yes, sure, it was only a ''handful''.

I wasn't referring to when he was hired. I was referring to this last year.

 

[Bieber fever]

Subban with only 3 points behind Weber with one game in hand depiste nashville slow start due to the whole team being sick.

Its crazy how people think MB won the trade based on 17 games when the guy is signed until 2016 lol

 

[TheAntiPrice]

There's no question that Subban will have better numbers than Weber across almost all categories. But of course Weber is better, because intangibles.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Subban with only 3 points behind Weber with one game in hand depiste nashville slow start due to the whole team being sick.

Its crazy how people think MB won the trade based on 17 games when the guy is signed until 2016 lol

but the HBO documentary!! did you forget about the HBO documentary??

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Subban with only 3 points behind Weber with one game in hand depiste nashville slow start due to the whole team being sick.

Its crazy how people think MB won the trade based on 17 games when the guy is signed until 2016 lol

Nobody was expecting Weber to produce more points than Subban. We were expecting Weber to be a beast defensively and a guy who can score 20 goals and we got that. Subban on the other hand has been dreadful in defense.

Also Weber has 7 goals, Subban only has 3 goals. Pretty huge goalscoring difference there.

 

[Kriss E]

So the smart thing to do is to not play your 9 Million dollar D who you traded your captain and franchise D for the most minutes? OK then...

Funny. He's playing about 30 sec less than Josi per game. Hey, guess what, Weber was also playing a few seconds less per game than Josi last year.
Who cares man. You don't know anything about Nashville, so let's stop pretending like you actually do.
Maybe Lav is right in using him as such, maybe he isn't. It's irrelevant and there is no correlation to how MT used him as you're talking about two entirely different teams and systems.

If the shoe was on the other foot MT would be getting blasted here and called all kinds of names. Heck we have a perfect example with Eller.

Who gives a crap? People had their reasons to dump on MT. What happens elsewhere is irrelevant as 99% here has no idea what's happening other than a few highlights or score sheets here and there.
I definitely thought Eller had the potential to become better, but we didn't tap into it.
I never thought he would reach that big potential in WSH.

But maybe your right and so is Lavs and PK is better suited for 2nd D minutes and 2nd wave PP. Lavs proving MT wrong in playing PK to much, should of played him fewer minutes I guess. LOL

First, PK is 2nd most used Dman in Nsh.
Second, PK is 1st most used Dman at ES.
So really, no freaking idea what you're babbling on about.

And again, who gives a crap? Doesn't mean anything about MT and his decisions here.

 

[jaffy27]

Subban with only 3 points behind Weber with one game in hand depiste nashville slow start due to the whole team being sick.

Its crazy how people think MB won the trade based on 17 games when the guy is signed until 2016 lol

What's crazier is that you've been in hiding when Subban wasn't scoring

 

[Perrah]

Funny. He's playing about 30 sec less than Josi per game. Hey, guess what, Weber was also playing a few seconds less per game than Josi last year.
Who cares man. You don't know anything about Nashville, so let's stop pretending like you actually do.
Maybe Lav is right in using him as such, maybe he isn't. It's irrelevant and there is no correlation to how MT used him as you're talking about two entirely different teams and systems.


Who gives a crap? People had their reasons to dump on MT. What happens elsewhere is irrelevant as 99% here has no idea what's happening other than a few highlights or score sheets here and there.
I definitely thought Eller had the potential to become better, but we didn't tap into it.
I never thought he would reach that big potential in WSH.

First, PK is 2nd most used Dman in Nsh.
Second, PK is 1st most used Dman at ES.
So really, no freaking idea what you're babbling on about.

And again, who gives a crap? Doesn't mean anything about MT and his decisions here.

Hes been going on about ice time for a month now and hasnt figured out that the difference is more or less the amount he plays less on the PP. I wouldnt waste time trying to get him to understand now. One point he said the decline in ice time could be leading to a scratching.

 

[DangerDave]

Those type of passes is something the Habs are really missing on their defense right now. Didn't MT say he inserted Hanley into the lineup because he wanted a puck moving dman in there instead of Pateryn.

Weber has been great but do you miss PK even a little bit MT when you see that puck movement from a D-man?

I'd rather Weber than PK but I do miss him. Hopefully we can get a solid pmd on the left side.

 

[PaulD]

Subban with only 3 points behind Weber with one game in hand depiste nashville slow start due to the whole team being sick.

Its crazy how people think MB won the trade based on 17 games when the guy is signed until 2016 lol

I know. Almost as crazy as those who said Poile won the trade before a single game was played.

 

[PaulD]

Nobody was expecting Weber to produce more points than Subban. We were expecting Weber to be a beast defensively and a guy who can score 20 goals and we got that. Subban on the other hand has been dreadful in defense.

Also Weber has 7 goals, Subban only has 3 goals. Pretty huge goalscoring difference there.

Weber already has more goals this year than PK got last year.

 

[Bryson]

I know. Almost as crazy as those who said Poile won the trade before a single game was played.

You've been high on the Subban hate bandwagon. What does it take to determine who won a trade and which player is better? Not years? Not even a full season? 12 games? Really?

Weber already has more goals this year than PK got last year.

Last year Subban had the exact same number of points as Weber did despite being injured for half the season while also being a +4 on a team suffering from a historic collapse vs Weber's -7. The year before that Subban scored 60 points while also being +21. How many more goals would Subban have if we didn't have one of the most predictable and worst PP in the league?

Were you trying to prove a point here because I don't see it.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Weber already has more goals this year than PK got last year.

so what ?

 

[Brainiac]

Why do people focus that much on goals??

-Subban and Weber are defensemen, scoring goals is not their top priority

-There's plenty of other ways to generate offense and yes, Subban is much better at it than Weber

 

[ECWHSWI]

Why do people focus that much on goals??

-Subban and Weber are defensemen, scoring goals is not their top priority

-There's plenty of other ways to generate offense and yes, Subban is much better at it than Weber

this 100%.

I mean, when you see a speedster like Ribeiro on a (partial) breakaway, you have to understand goals are not the only thing.

For all the good things Weber may do, we havent seen a pass like this from a Habs D this season, not once.

 

[sandviper]

I'd rather Weber than PK but I do miss him. Hopefully we can get a solid pmd on the left side.

I sorta feel the same way. I mean, I think I'd rather have Subban, as anyone in front of Price is going to be a lot better than if they were to have, oh, I dunno, Condon back there. However, I won't deny that Weber does the type of things we NEED much better than PK, and given the way management wants the team to play, I agree that Weber is a better fit. That said, now we are lacking that top-pairing PMD which won't come cheap if we continue to look for one outside the organization.

Despite his personality not being for everyone, I do miss PK and his interviews and on-ice excitement. Yeah, he makes a lot of mistakes but I will always remember more good than bad. I wish him all the best and hopes he scores points every night, except when he plays us where I'll hope for a zero or negative.