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The first player from the 2023 "big 3" to hit 30 goals is Adamo Giuliano Fantilli

nbwingsfan said:
It’s no coincidence that Fantilli took off once paired with Marchenko (who doesn’t get nearly enough credit for how good he is).

Columbus has like 4 players better than anything Bedard and to a lesser extent Carlson have to play with
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Columbus doesn't have 4 players better than mctavish, Terry etc. Anaheim has a pretty decent supporting cast.

Bedard has worse players for sure. He's also 5'8 isn't fast and doesnt drive play. Fantilli is a physical freak and bedard is the opposite. These are factors when evaluating for me. Bedard is a small extremely skilled winger, fantilli a power center. Just completely different tiers of type of player.
 
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Hull2Roenick2Kane said:
dont want to make excuses so Ill just state the facts. Bedard has had 2 different coaches, 10+ different linemates, two position switches, two spells of 10+ games where he went scoreless, a malcontent in the locker room making a big scene, and people from all angles coming at him for his performance.

Defensively in samples you can see his improvement since the frozen nations tournament.

Do yourself a favor and watch the last game vs the Sens. Tale of 2 games for you to see. The decision making was a bit better and the confidence is back. Despite being outshot by like 30 the kids had fun and won the game in the end.

To stay on topic, Fantilli is a good kid. Glad to see him playing well.
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How do you feel about that coaching change? Luke Richardson is an honest guy who probably didnt pull any punches. Did Chicago's young players not respond? Was he too honest/tough?

The sens were resting 6 players including 2 of their top 4 d men and captain. Forsberg let in every scoring chance tough go for maybe his last NHL game. I wouldn't be using that as a good barometer for evaluation. The sens were playing to not get hurt and still dominated.

Bedard did play better than most games I've watched him. But that was not a hard game to play in.
 
bert said:
Columbus doesn't have 4 players better than mctavish, Terry etc. Anaheim has a pretty decent supporting cast.

Bedard has worse players for sure. He's also 5'8 isn't fast and doesnt drive play. Fantilli is a physical freak and bedard is the opposite. These are factors when evaluating for me. Bedard is a small extremely skilled winger, fantilli a power center. Just completely different tiers of type of player.
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What?

Werenski, Marchenko, Monahan (this season) and Johnson quite easily are all better than anything Carlson plays with. I don’t even see how that’s even a bit debatable.

As I said, Fantilli only took off when paired with Marchenko
 
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nbwingsfan said:
What?

Werenski, Marchenko, Monahan (this season) and Johnson quite easily are all better than anything Carlson plays with. I don’t even see how that’s even a bit debatable.

As I said, Fantilli only took off when paired with Marchenko
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You dont think it's debatable that Troy Terry or mactavish arent better than Johnson or Monahan? Just stop man.

You need to watch a game. Cherry picking stats is lazy. Fantilli is a force in all facets. Heavy physical skill with an elite shot. He scored with and without Marchenko down the stretch.
 
bert said:
You dont think it's debatable that Troy Terry or mactavish arent better than Johnson or Monahan? Just stop man.

You need to watch a game. Cherry picking stats is lazy. Fantilli is a force in all facets. Heavy physical skill with an elite shot. He scored with and without Marchenko down the stretch.
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Troy Terry had less points than Monahan in like 25 less games. Even worse for Mactavish. That’s not even a bit debatable that whe was better than both. He was an 85pt pace player this season.

Kent Johnson had 10+ more points than both in 10 less games.

I think you have no idea how good those two were for Columbus.

And no, Marchenko was his most common linemate.
 
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FiveTacos said:
And on top of all that, if Michkov had gone #2 or #3 would anyone say it was a terrible pick right now?
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On HF? Well yeah, that's what we do here.

I would rather my club take one of Carlsson or Fantilli, but not say something like "terrible pick" for a player that great.

bert said:
Bedard has worse players for sure. He's also 5'8 isn't fast and doesnt drive play. Fantilli is a physical freak and bedard is the opposite. These are factors when evaluating for me. Bedard is a small extremely skilled winger, fantilli a power center. Just completely different tiers of type of player.
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Fantilli doesn't really drive play much either at this point (in the sense of creating copious chances). I don't know if you meant to call Bedard a winger and Fantilli a center, but in my opinion both would be best off on the wing to start their careers.

nbwingsfan said:
What?

Werenski, Marchenko, Monahan (this season) and Johnson quite easily are all better than anything Carlson plays with. I don’t even see how that’s even a bit debatable.
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Werenski and Marchenko yes. But you're comparing the Jackets in their peak offensive season to the Ducks in a year where they had an abysmal offense in the first half. Those guys clearly can do better than that.

In the first half in Columbus Fantilli was playing with KJ a lot, and JVR. And he didn't score. Then he took off with Marchenko, as you mentioned. Then that line was split up and Fantilli is now back with KJ and JVR, and he has kept scoring. So you can't really say it's his current linemates that helped make the difference for him, because he wasn't scoring at all with them in the first half. It's really a credit to Marchenko, not anyone else.
 
majormajor said:
On HF? Well yeah, that's what we do here.

I would rather my club take one of Carlsson or Fantilli, but not say something like "terrible pick" for a player that great.



Fantilli doesn't really drive play much either at this point (in the sense of creating copious chances). I don't know if you meant to call Bedard a winger and Fantilli a center, but in my opinion both would be best off on the wing to start their careers.



Werenski and Marchenko yes. But you're comparing the Jackets in their peak offensive season to the Ducks in a year where they had an abysmal offense in the first half. Those guys clearly can do better than that.

In the first half in Columbus Fantilli was playing with KJ a lot, and JVR. And he didn't score. Then he took off with Marchenko, as you mentioned. Then that line was split up and Fantilli is now back with KJ and JVR, and he has kept scoring. So you can't really say it's his current linemates that helped make the difference for him, because he wasn't scoring at all with them in the first half. It's really a credit to Marchenko, not anyone else.
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They maybe could, but didn’t. This season they e vastly outperformed anyone on the Ducks. Especially Monahan.

Playing with Werenski and Marchenko alone are an advantage Bedard and Carlsson don’t even come close to having on their current roster.
 
From the time Monahan was injured to now has been 41 games and Fantilli has scored 22 goals in that time. Kid has been playing at a 40+ goal pace for half a season
 
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bert said:
You dont think it's debatable that Troy Terry or mactavish arent better than Johnson or Monahan? Just stop man.

You need to watch a game. Cherry picking stats is lazy. Fantilli is a force in all facets. Heavy physical skill with an elite shot. He scored with and without Marchenko down the stretch.
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Mac has been good. Terry not so much.
 
Terry Yake said:
2002?
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We lost the lottery in 2002. Florida won it. What happened is that Rick Dudley managed to get himself hoodwinked by Doug MacLean of all people and swapped picks with Columbus in exchange for the option to swap 1st round picks the next year - which they opted not to do, because the Jackets finished ahead of Florida the next year Florida won the lottery that year too (but traded down again :facepalm: ).

Ostensibly Bouwmeester would have been #1 overall if Florida had any sense at the time. Instead they pulled that swap with Columbus, and then handed two more picks to Atlanta to make sure they wouldn't pick Bouwmeester. Otherwise we'd be living in a world in which Rick Nash was an Atlanta Thrasher.
 
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Viqsi said:
We lost the lottery in 2002. Florida won it. What happened is that Rick Dudley managed to get himself hoodwinked by Doug MacLean of all people and swapped picks with Columbus in exchange for the option to swap 1st round picks the next year - which they opted not to do, because the Jackets finished ahead of Florida the next year Florida won the lottery that year too (but traded down again :facepalm: ).

Ostensibly Bouwmeester would have been #1 overall if Florida had any sense at the time. Instead they pulled that swap with Columbus, and then handed two more picks to Atlanta to make sure they wouldn't pick Bouwmeester. Otherwise we'd be living in a world in which Rick Nash was an Atlanta Thrasher.
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TIL

if florida wanted jbo, why didn't they just take him #1 lol
 
Viqsi said:
We lost the lottery in 2002. Florida won it. What happened is that Rick Dudley managed to get himself hoodwinked by Doug MacLean of all people and swapped picks with Columbus in exchange for the option to swap 1st round picks the next year - which they opted not to do, because the Jackets finished ahead of Florida the next year Florida won the lottery that year too (but traded down again :facepalm: ).

Ostensibly Bouwmeester would have been #1 overall if Florida had any sense at the time. Instead they pulled that swap with Columbus, and then handed two more picks to Atlanta to make sure they wouldn't pick Bouwmeester. Otherwise we'd be living in a world in which Rick Nash was an Atlanta Thrasher.
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Terry Yake said:
TIL

if florida wanted jbo, why didn't they just take him #1 lol
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Because Columbus was willing to pay for the privilege of moving up. Florida were getting J-Bo either way so the exchange for Florida was essentially giving a 3rd rounder and a 4th rounder (the picks to Atlanta for not taking J-Bo) in exchange for the 2003 pick swap option with Columbus. And pick swap options with bad teams are very valuable, as far as I know there was no restriction even if Columbus earned the 1st OA pick in 2023 and Florida had the 15th OA, Florida could swap them.

A pick swap is how Tampa got the 1st OA pick in 1998 and drafted Vinny Lecavalier. Everyone knew they were worth a lot. Of course most likely the reason Doug Maclean was so willing to give out the pick swap option was because he always thought his team was about to pop. Pick swap options were worth a lot, but surely not the ones he was handing out.
 
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