The false opportunity cost of 11.6

[Dirtyclapper]

Holy shit the discourse around Pettersson is beyond silly and I'm worried that it's going to lead to a catastrophically stupid move.

The media keeps saying, "He needs to really show he has his game back over the next 30 games or they should move him".

Spoiler alert: He's very very clearly physically compromised. He's not going to get his speed or his shot back until next season. If that's your metric and anything else will make you quiver with impotent rage, then skip the rest of the year.

His stretch without Miller was him with a little more confidence and using his superior intellect to generate points. In no way was he 'back' physically.
He was scoring points like a 35 year old Gretzky as opposed to a 27 year old Gretzky (it should go without saying I'm not comparing him to Gretzky, but comparing him to how Gretz used his brain combined with his superior physical tools, and then used exclusively his brain when time and injury took his superior physical tools away from him).

If we trade him because "wE gOt rId oF jT mIlLeR aNd hE sTiLl dOeSn'T cArE!!11" because he still doesn't have his speed, shot, or confidence, then it will be a catastrophic mistake and will turn us into the Nashville Predators of yesteryear with a really strong D and nothing but depth forwards up front.

-
I don't understand where the disconnect is for people. It seems like it's 11.6 million=goals and assists and never being hurt or losing confidence, and anything else means he's an evil person or a soft p***y or whatever else.

The "He's not hurt, he just doesn't care" narrative is literally drooling call-in show levels of analysis.

He's blocking tons of shots, hustling on D, positionally incredibly sound in our zone, takes hits to make a play, etc.

Nobody who 'doesn't care' gives up on the fun flashy side of the game to do the thankless, physically punishing stuff.

The stuff that's so thankless, by the way, that like 35% of our fanbase (and most of our media) doesn't even recognize it.

He's clearly physically compromised and having zero fun out there and entirely lost his confidence.

He has zero burst in his stride and his shot sucks right now.

Last game there were 2 cut backs he tried against mediocre Avs players where they pinched him off like he was a Robbie Shremp type trying a junior move at the NHL level.

We know that's not Petey, typically he draws so many penalties because he's so good at making people miss.

Right now he has zero burst in his skates so when he puts a guy off balance, he can't then use that split second to move in to space.

I'd like to add, though it should be too obvious to bare stating, that all injuries are not created equally.

I have seen people stating that X player played through injury, so why can't Petey.

An injury to a load bearing/burst part of the anatomy is a hell of a lot different than playing through a pain tolerance part of the body.

Petey will, hopefully, find the confidence to be creative offensively again this year and produce but you heard it here first HE'S NOT GOING TO LOOK LIKE OLD PETEY THIS YEAR.

And if we trade him based on that, it could be a terrible, terrible franchise setback move.

Gabriel Landeskog?

If he's seriously playing injured which I doubt management would let him I'd rather not risk losing a valuable asset and ship him out before he has surgery and we're dealing with someone just collecting a paycheque.

 

[Darwin101]

Holy shit the discourse around Pettersson is beyond silly and I'm worried that it's going to lead to a catastrophically stupid move.

The media keeps saying, "He needs to really show he has his game back over the next 30 games or they should move him".

Spoiler alert: He's very very clearly physically compromised. He's not going to get his speed or his shot back until next season. If that's your metric and anything else will make you quiver with impotent rage, then skip the rest of the year.

His stretch without Miller was him with a little more confidence and using his superior intellect to generate points. In no way was he 'back' physically.
He was scoring points like a 35 year old Gretzky as opposed to a 27 year old Gretzky (it should go without saying I'm not comparing him to Gretzky, but comparing him to how Gretz used his brain combined with his superior physical tools, and then used exclusively his brain when time and injury took his superior physical tools away from him).

If we trade him because "wE gOt rId oF jT mIlLeR aNd hE sTiLl dOeSn'T cArE!!11" because he still doesn't have his speed, shot, or confidence, then it will be a catastrophic mistake and will turn us into the Nashville Predators of yesteryear with a really strong D and nothing but depth forwards up front.

-
I don't understand where the disconnect is for people. It seems like it's 11.6 million=goals and assists and never being hurt or losing confidence, and anything else means he's an evil person or a soft p***y or whatever else.

The "He's not hurt, he just doesn't care" narrative is literally drooling call-in show levels of analysis.

He's blocking tons of shots, hustling on D, positionally incredibly sound in our zone, takes hits to make a play, etc.

Nobody who 'doesn't care' gives up on the fun flashy side of the game to do the thankless, physically punishing stuff.

The stuff that's so thankless, by the way, that like 35% of our fanbase (and most of our media) doesn't even recognize it.

He's clearly physically compromised and having zero fun out there and entirely lost his confidence.

He has zero burst in his stride and his shot sucks right now.

Last game there were 2 cut backs he tried against mediocre Avs players where they pinched him off like he was a Robbie Shremp type trying a junior move at the NHL level.

We know that's not Petey, typically he draws so many penalties because he's so good at making people miss.

Right now he has zero burst in his skates so when he puts a guy off balance, he can't then use that split second to move in to space.

I'd like to add, though it should be too obvious to bare stating, that all injuries are not created equally.

I have seen people stating that X player played through injury, so why can't Petey.

An injury to a load bearing/burst part of the anatomy is a hell of a lot different than playing through a pain tolerance part of the body.

Petey will, hopefully, find the confidence to be creative offensively again this year and produce but you heard it here first HE'S NOT GOING TO LOOK LIKE OLD PETEY THIS YEAR.

And if we trade him based on that, it could be a terrible, terrible franchise setback move.

Honest question, what do you think of Miller, maybe the most competitive Canuck in recent history, who played with Pettersson for many years, absolutely losing it on him? He clearly has seen way more than we the fans see. Is it possible that maybe their 'rift' was some indication of performance issues displayed by Petey that were more than physical? Beyond the eye test, the constant rumours over the years, etc, this rift does validate the 'more than just an injury' theory, in my opinion.

 

[Jack Burton]

He will get his power back skating?

Eventually yes he will.

He hasn’t changed his “fundamental” skating technique but it’s almost as if he’s taking power skating lessons for the first time in his life.

He’s working extremely hard at distributing that “power” through both legs and not his dominant left (the broken one) leg but unfortunately he’s lost his first step and top end speed because of it.

This will take time and probably won’t return this season because you can’t build body strength during a ongoing NHL season and can only do it during the summer.

As his lower body strength improves, he will become stronger on his skates, the speed will improve and the old EP40 should return.

 

[4th line culture]

Every time he is on the ice he should tilt the play in our favor. Every time is on the ice he should demand the puck, create dynamic plays and have the opposing players on their heels. Every time we are down a goal he should be the one leading the team down the ice. He should be noticeable. He should OWN the middle of the ice.

He is a massive massive let down as a player. He is not a cultural fit whatsoever. They paid for Mackinnon and ended up with a Bonino.

I think people misunderstand what comes with that large of a salary. You're also paid to figure shit out quickly. Thats part of the expectation in the wage he is earning.. Youre not supposed to be a headache. Youre not supposed to go through long term poor play.

11.6 M is a Mack, Drai, Kuch and McD. Absolute beast mode 24/7/365 every time youre on the ice.

Lets be real..Everytime the Oilers are down a goal with 2 min left in the game you know whos gonna come on the ice. You know whos gonna ask for the puck. You know theyre gonna set up the same play and most of the time they absolutely deliver.

Leon Draisaitl and his consistency is absolutely absurd. Dude is just a total machine every time he is on the ice. You stand and scream at your TV knowing he is on the ice and know exactly where he is gonna set up and the opposing team has their best players and he just gets it done over and over and over.

THAT IS 11.6M dollars a year. He makes EP40 look like a ECHL player

Mack had zero points and his team was shut out last night. Where was the beast mode?

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Honest question, what do you think of Miller, maybe the most competitive Canuck in recent history, who played with Pettersson for many years, absolutely losing it on him? He clearly has seen way more than we the fans see. Is it possible that maybe their 'rift' was some indication of performance issues displayed by Petey that were more than physical? Beyond the eye test, the constant rumours over the years, etc, this rift does validate the 'more than just an injury' theory, in my opinion.

I think that the ways we see even Miller's biggest advocates talk around how 'fiery' he is and how 'his competitiveness can get the best of him' and the fact he was forced to go on leave for 10 games for, according to rumors some combination of either a physical altercation or threatening to quit on the team if he was benched suggests that Miller has emotional regulation problems at best, and Oppositional Defiant Disorder at worst.

If Petey was the only person Miller had ever had conflict with I would be more inclined to give his perspective somewhat more credibility.

With that said, I'm not saying Miller was wrong if we hypothesize he was upset Petey was underperforming. But how he dealt with it seems like it was incredibly immature and disruptive.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

This is really going to happen isn't it. God help us.

Stop believing everything you read.

 

[Jack Burton]

Stop believing everything you read.

Or stick your head in the sand.

Son….where there is smoke then there is fire with this franchise.

Pretty sure a bunch of guys who have WON MULTIPLE CUPS have a opinion on what it “takes”


Perhaps the real question might just be can our owner accept a culture change?

Straight up….if a change happened tomorrow would it not involve EP40?

Pretty sure it would.

 

[Grumbler]

Thread shutdown incoming. It is impossible have any objective opinion about Pettersson because the Pettersson Bro Patrol will attack, discredit, and use clear subjective evidence against any post that hurts their egos.

 

[rypper]

Or stick your head in the sand.

Son….where there is smoke then there is fire with this franchise.

Pretty sure a bunch of guys who have WON MULTIPLE CUPS have a opinion on what it “takes”


Perhaps the real question might just be can our owner accept a culture change?

Straight up….if a change happened tomorrow would it not involve EP40?

Pretty sure it would.

I mean it's Farhan giving his opinion. I'm not putting a ton of stock into that.

If he said "I've heard..." "sources within the team are saying..." etc maybe, but he's saying he personally does not see a cultural fit.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Did YOU watch the game?

I meant the games where he got 15 points in 10 games.

He didnt look any faster or assertive. He just got some ponts.

Did you see him do a blind behind the back pass in the offensive zone that went straight to the opposing team? Did you see him flub the puck on the 5 on 3 power play? Did you see him skate fast ONE TIME then just stop skating the moment the pass went to him? Did you see him refusing to shoot on the power play? Did you see him show brutal body language on his trip back to the bench after f***ing up in the offensive zone for the 10th time that game?

Injures
Wrong deployment
Wrong wingers
Wrong defencemen
Mean teammates

These are all excuses that have been trotted out in the last week.

He's a 26 year old that is playing like a 36 year old who is being treated like an 18 year old by parts of this fanbase.

Why are they an excuse? Why are they not part of the equation?

What good does it do if I join the whining and bitching?

He is playing bad. He is responsible for most of it. There are other factors at play that make the production much worse.

Both are true. Even if it doesnt satisfy the bloodlust of frustrated fans.

 

[arttk]

Stop believing everything you read.

Farhan also said he felt Demko has a personality issue, dude says a lot of stupid ass shit

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Thread shutdown incoming. It is impossible have any objective opinion about Pettersson because the Pettersson Bro Patrol will attack, discredit, and use clear objective evidence against any post that hurts their egos.

Fixed it for you.

 

[TraderJim]

I meant the games where he got 15 points in 10 games.

He didnt look any faster or assertive. He just got some ponts.

Why are they an excuse? Why are they not part of the equation?

What good does it do if I join the whining and bitching?

He is playing bad. He is responsible for most of it. There are other factors at play that make the production much worse.

Both are true. Even if it doesnt satisfy the bloodlust of frustrated fans.

Yes, we agree on that. It isn't just an injury. IMO its between his ears and he can't perform unless he is perfect. The moment he screws up it throws him into a downward spiral that he can't overcome.

I don't believe this is something that will be suddenly fixed. It's a mental condition that hasn't been treated since he showed signs of it 5 years ago. Even if he returns to a PPG pace, he will still hit massive downward trends in his play the moment things aren't going perfectly. His body language, which has been constantly pointed out shows just how bad it is.

This is not someone I personally want helming the offense especially when playoffs hit and the errors are compounded and he can't stop himself from intrusive or negative thoughts causing his offense to disappear.

And as far as fan "bloodlust", I haven't seen any outrageous actions by fans unless complaining about his performance on a message board is somehow "bloodlust" like.

As Wetcoaster use to say YMMV

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yes, we agree on that. It isn't just an injury. IMO its between his ears and he can't perform unless he is perfect. The moment he screws up it throws him into a downward spiral that he can't overcome.

If I had to guess its more about his lack of skating throwing his every instinct off and that spirals in to overthinking and second guessing his every decision.

I don't believe this is something that will be suddenly fixed. It's a mental condition that hasn't been treated since he showed signs of it 5 years ago. Even if he returns to a PPG pace, he will still hit massive downward trends in his play the moment things aren't going perfectly. His body language, which has been constantly pointed out shows just how bad it is.

Or he is able to address his off season training in a way that reduces the likelyhood of overuse injuries like his wrist & knee.

If he already isnt working with a psychologist of some sort, thats just really stupid of him.

This is not someone I personally want helming the offense especially when playoffs hit and the errors are compounded and he can't stop himself from intrusive or negative thoughts causing his offense to disappear.

And as far as fan "bloodlust", I haven't seen any outrageous actions by fans unless complaining about his performance on a message board is somehow "bloodlust" like.

As Wetcoaster use to say YMMV

I dont think its about making mistakes. So I cant agree with you on this.


edit. Bloodlust is when people insist ignoring every factor that is outside the "Elias Pettersson is bad at hockey on purpose" noise.

 

[AzNightmare]

And a ~week will make a difference?

He will get his power back skating?

What you're implying makes no logical sense. If a player is actually hurt, every bit of rest is just logical to point toward the right direction to recovery.
It's like if I'm tired but there's only time to take a short nap, I'm still going to nap to get some rest. I'm not going to stay awake just because a short nap isn't going to give me the full recovery of an 8 hour sleep.

Mack had zero points and his team was shut out last night. Where was the beast mode?

Oh no, 1 game with 0 pts when the entire team was shutdown, after coming off a 4 pt streak and 18 pts in January. Problem with EP is he can still have games with 0 pts even when the Canucks score a bunch. He's a non-factor in the wins.

He was a 50 or 60 point player for the first 4 years of his career

lol, that's not an outlier season(s). That's a young player developing. He got better, had a breakthrough, and has been a beast since. Tell me which season after did he have a significant drop off. He's consistently over ppg every season.

Petterson's overall career has always been a big swing from season to season. He's locked in for 8 seasons, if we're lucky, he may give you four 100 pt seasons. Is that our standard? Only reason his last season looked better than it really was is because he padded it in the first half, and was abysmal in the 2nd half, extending into the playoffs when it mattered the most. 2021-22, he had a slow start and was terrible in the first half. By the time he turned it around, it was too late, he fell way short of being ppg. 2020-21, he had a slow start again. Managed to pick it up a bit right before he got injured. Maybe a saving grace because now we won't know if that season was going to end up being terrible or not.

Petterson had a better start than Mack out of the gates. EP was definitively a better player by the 2nd season. But after a few seasons in, it's not even comparable who's much, much better, and much more consistent season to season now.

 

[poler]

My take on this is obviously canucks medical staff and management don’t respect tendinitis as an injury, which made Petterson play through the pain for half the year. Which affected his offseason and is still in pain sometimes. He said this before the season started. Note that this injury most common in NBA takes a year to recover from.“with rest”

As to evidence that they don’t respect it Tochet said it’s little tendinitis it’s nothing. Note that petey lost his skating speed and shot velocity by 50% last year and that injury just minor thing? Give me a break, Hughes was day to day they made him play a game then he was injured again for 5 games. Really honest canucks management putting points in standings vs health of players.

 

[604]

Would you trade EP40 for Marner @ $13M x 8 years?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

What you're implying makes no logical sense. If a player is actually hurt, every bit of rest is just logical to point toward the right direction to recovery.
It's like if I'm tired but there's only time to take a short nap, I'm still going to nap to get some rest. I'm not going to stay awake just because a short nap isn't going to give me the full recovery of an 8 hour sleep.

It only doesn't make sense if you think every injury benefits from 2 weeks of rest.

 

[kanucks25]

Mack had zero points and his team was shut out last night. Where was the beast mode?

Surely this isn't a serious response?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Surely this isn't a serious response?

Does the post in question warrant a serious response?

 

[Brookbank]

Would you trade EP40 for Marner @ $13M x 8 years?

As a means of preventing every other conceivable bad trade from happening, yes. But I would still just keep him

 

[4th line culture]

Oh no, 1 game with 0 pts when the entire team was shutdown, after coming off a 4 pt streak and 18 pts in January. Problem with EP is he can still have games with 0 pts even when the Canucks score a bunch. He's a non-factor in

I was responding to someone claiming mack went "absolutely beast mode" everytime he was on the ice. It's a ridiculous claim and standard to hold any player.

Pettersson hasn't been as good as he could or should be, I think everyone agrees on that.