Player Discussion: The Elvis Thread

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So zero? That joke was for Guddy.

I don't know what Boone did to deserve being placed in that convo, he's got 18 pts in the last 20 games, our top scorer in that span. We should be giving him an appreciation thread. I wonder if his haters have been following the team.

"His haters" started with a notion of something like "I think he's a better player than people give him credit for, but just maybe less of a leader than he's given credit for." (I haven't been in this conversation recently but I posted something similar probably two years ago - I tried to find it for evidence but couldn't.)

So he's scoring but the team is losing. It's a least a fair discussion.

 

[NotCommitted]

"His haters" started with a notion of something like "I think he's a better player than people give him credit for, but just maybe less of a leader than he's given credit for." (I haven't been in this conversation recently but I posted something similar probably two years ago - I tried to find it for evidence but couldn't.)

So he's scoring but the team is losing. It's a least a fair discussion.

I mean I'm totally outside of the team, even more so than local fans who might actually go to the games live, or have other real world contacts with the team & org, so I have absolutely zero idea of what's actually going on. I have none of that, don't even follow Twitter or journos. My post about Guddy on the previous page was made a bit tongue in cheek since people like to speculate so much about Elvis etc. and I'm fully aware that looking at team success and "vibe" in such an overly simplified way and tying it to a single player is stupid and doesn't really tell anything.

Yet, from that perspective it looks like Elvis has been part of good and bad CBJ teams, I have fond memories of 21-22, I really liked watching that team a lot and got a good vibe from it, and in some ways I got the same vibe from this years team, just even better and better coached. Same with Boone etc.

Guddy has never been a part of a good CBJ team, unless you count this years team and if he was really "part of it", maybe he was and was working his magic and great leadership behind the scenes, and maybe that's where he should've stayed and they really should look into terminating his contract and hiring him in some other capacity From my perspective that's entirely possible he's a great leader, but it's just as possible his "leadership" really rubs people the wrong way and brings nothing positive.

But it also could have nothing to do with him, perhaps even more likely, the team got to play completely pressure free most of the season, united behind a cause and then got into a situation where the grind is on, they actually have playoff chances, the pressure builds, maybe some players start to grip their sticks a bit too tight, pucks are no longer going in, or go in at the wrong end of rink, throw in some "bad puck luck" just for good measure and suddenly team starts getting frustrated.

I guess what I'm trying to say with all these meandering words is at least personally I have no idea what's really going and I'm just basing my opinions on "vibes" and seeing causality where there might be none. Like I always thought Voracek was a great guy to have in the room but honestly that's just mostly because I really liked how he came off in interviews and imagined he's a chill veteran guy in the room who keeps the vibe good while also providing leadership, but in the end I just have no idea. I think same is largely true for most other people, they just like or don't like a guy and then jump to conclusions about "leadership" or being a problem or whatever.

For anyone who actually read all this, congrulations, and remember you never get back those moments of your life

 

[SteelCityCannon]

So zero? That joke was for Guddy.

I don't know what Boone did to deserve being placed in that convo, he's got 18 pts in the last 20 games, our top scorer in that span. We should be giving him an appreciation thread. I wonder if his haters have been following the team.

I'm a Boone defender. I don't understand the hate he's been getting, but I think his best utility is on the third line.

 

[Xoggz22]

With Elvis being the one apologizing and taking the team to dinner to makes me think, once againn he was the one doing the finger pointing, and an interview like this just rings hollow.

I don't know, I played soccer at a very high level and there were games I know I wasn't my best and likely hurt the team. I apologized because it's also a way to show accountability and try to shoulder blame for others as well. He can apologize and take people to dinner or whatever and still not do it because he's pointing fingers. This is a crucial time, he's had a bad stretch. I think he's being accountable.

That said, don't confuse my empathy for wanting to keep Elvis. I think both goalies need to be elsewhere next year and the defense also needs a major overhaul. They are not playing as a unit of 5 in front of the goalie for whatever reason. Very few on D seem to be part of the solution and long term fit. That doesn't help the goalies or the forwards, but changes need to happen. I just give Elvis credit for taking accountability. That's how I felt that interview went.

 

[Monstershockey]

I don't know, I played soccer at a very high level and there were games I know I wasn't my best and likely hurt the team. I apologized because it's also a way to show accountability and try to shoulder blame for others as well. He can apologize and take people to dinner or whatever and still not do it because he's pointing fingers. This is a crucial time, he's had a bad stretch. I think he's being accountable.

That said, don't confuse my empathy for wanting to keep Elvis. I think both goalies need to be elsewhere next year and the defense also needs a major overhaul. They are not playing as a unit of 5 in front of the goalie for whatever reason. Very few on D seem to be part of the solution and long term fit. That doesn't help the goalies or the forwards, but changes need to happen. I just give Elvis credit for taking accountability. That's how I felt that interview went.

That very much could be, I just don't think Elvis is that guy.

The funny thing is, I don't really blame the goaltending for this strech. It has been more our inabilty to score consistantly that has been killing us. Not being able to flip momentum or answer back opposing goals. We've been shoutout 6 times since the outdoor game, hardly the goaltendings fault.

 

[VT]

I don't know, I played soccer at a very high level and there were games I know I wasn't my best and likely hurt the team. I apologized because it's also a way to show accountability and try to shoulder blame for others as well. He can apologize and take people to dinner or whatever and still not do it because he's pointing fingers. This is a crucial time, he's had a bad stretch. I think he's being accountable.

That said, don't confuse my empathy for wanting to keep Elvis. I think both goalies need to be elsewhere next year and the defense also needs a major overhaul. They are not playing as a unit of 5 in front of the goalie for whatever reason. Very few on D seem to be part of the solution and long term fit. That doesn't help the goalies or the forwards, but changes need to happen. I just give Elvis credit for taking accountability. That's how I felt that interview went.

The defense is not just the defenders, but the play of the whole five. And it hasn't always been ideal.
Regarding Elvis, he is not a goalie who can move the team up in the standings to win a game in regulation. I don't believe we have a chance to play in the PO with him.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I don't believe we have a chance to play in the PO with him.

At this point we don't have the chance to play in the playoffs with anyone this year and that's never been 1 person's fault.

 

[Xoggz22]

The defense is not just the defenders, but the play of the whole five. And it hasn't always been ideal.
Regarding Elvis, he is not a goalie who can move the team up in the standings to win a game in regulation. I don't believe we have a chance to play in the PO with him.

I have noted that in many threads for years. Defense is a team effort but there are also guys payed to do more defending and they simply aren't. it has been our weakest position for a long time and now add less than average goaltending and I don't think the 6 man unit on the ice can currently change that. This team is better, has a lot of pieces but not enough pieces to get to the next level and of those missing pieces I think there are 6 of them between our 6 starting defenders and 2 goalies (starter and backup). I only see Mateychuk and Z as the two pieces. I'd like Fabbro re-signed, but don't think that's in the cards. So a LOT of overhaul coming this off season, but it absolutely has to start with a new look in net.

 

[majormajor]

I'm a Boone defender. I don't understand the hate he's been getting, but I think his best utility is on the third line.

And what do you make of him scoring 18 pts in 20 games, our top scorer in that span?

It seems like people have strong fixed opinions that Boone isn't good enough to do that sort of thing.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

And what do you make of him scoring 18 pts in 20 games, our top scorer in that span?

It seems like people have strong fixed opinions that Boone isn't good enough to do that sort of thing.

Im not denying that. I'm gonna say this without looking so feel free to burn me on this, but what did he do to the rest of the players on his lines? Did they get better or worse?

Again, I don't want to be put in a position to hate on Boone. I love Boone. I think he can still be an elite 3rd line player and still chip in plenty of points. Hed stay fresher too.

 

[majormajor]

Del

Moved discussion to roster thread.

 

[VT]

And what do you make of him scoring 18 pts in 20 games, our top scorer in that span?

It seems like people have strong fixed opinions that Boone isn't good enough to do that sort of thing.

But Boone is often injured. Also we didn't play better with him. And he is 32 this year.
Maybe it's time to start a new era.

 

[VT]

At this point we don't have the chance to play in the playoffs with anyone this year and that's never been 1 person's fault.

Sometimes all it takes is a little, and the game can be won. Elvis is unable to do that.

 

[NotCommitted]

But Boone is often injured. Also we didn't play better with him. And he is 32 this year.
Maybe it's time to start a new era.

New era for what? I mean the team is just now looking like they might actually be getting over the hump of starting this current era

The way the season played out, maybe there's some reason to reconsider if one thought Jenner as an absolutely irreplaceable piece - or maybe not, depends also on other things, not just play on ice, but if anyone is thinking this team somehow gets better by default by getting rid of Jenner, or that it's somehow needed to move on from him, not sure what to say to that.

He's a very good and versatile player which is a big plus. Maybe he can't be counted on to be available for 82 games, but he can play practically any top-9 forward position successfully which means you have more options to put other guys, who can't do that, to positions where they can actually succeed.

 

[majormajor]

New era for what? I mean the team is just now looking like they might actually be getting over the hump of starting this current era

The way the season played out, maybe there's some reason to reconsider if one thought Jenner as an absolutely irreplaceable piece - or maybe not, depends also on other things, not just play on ice, but if anyone is thinking this team somehow gets better by default by getting rid of Jenner, or that it's somehow needed to move on from him, not sure what to say to that.

He's a very good and versatile player which is a big plus. Maybe he can't be counted on to be available for 82 games, but he can play practically any top-9 forward position successfully which means you have more options to put other guys, who can't do that, to positions where they can actually succeed.

You see, he's on the Blue Jackets, and the Blue Jackets have been bad, therefore he is bad, and we should get rid of him. Nevermind that good playoff teams have more Boone Jenner types than bad teams do. We don't need any players like him. Only shiny new toys.

Forgive me folks for the caricature, but you can't make a roster argument why Boone has to be traded, only nonsense arguments.

(I'm not directing this solely at VT, it's a common perspective here on our board).

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

You see, he's on the Blue Jackets, and the Blue Jackets have been bad, therefore he is bad, and we should get rid of him. Nevermind that good playoff teams have more Boone Jenner types than bad teams do. We don't need any players like him. Only shiny new toys.

Forgive me folks for the caricature, but you can't make a roster argument why Boone has to be traded, only nonsense arguments.

(I'm not directing this solely at VT, it's a common perspective here on our board).

You're saying there are loads of posters here suggesting the CBJ would be better off trading Boone Jenner?

 

[koteka]

Is it time to bring up the Ewing theory?

» The Ewing Theory

grantland.com

 

[majormajor]

You're saying there are loads of posters here suggesting the CBJ would be better off trading Boone Jenner?

More than a few, yes.

I knew that post would draw you in because you don't like generalizations about our board, but it's a topic we've been debating for years. People keep bringing up moving on from Boone, for a variety of nonsense reasons. They have all sorts of deeply held beliefs about him, some about how bad of a leader he is (which we can't see), some about how bad he is for his linemates (completely disproven). That he can't play center (better at it than all but one guy on our team) or can't play in the top six (our top scorer since he returned), etc... etc... When the bias is this unrelenting, there is clearly a psychological reason for it.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

More than a few, yes.

I knew that post would draw you in because you don't like generalizations about our board, but it's a topic we've been debating for years. People keep bringing up moving on from Boone, for a variety of nonsense reasons. They have all sorts of deeply held beliefs about him, some about how bad of a leader he is (which we can't see), some about how bad he is for his linemates (completely disproven). That he can't play center (better at it than all but one guy on our team) or can't play in the top six (our top scorer since he returned), etc... etc... When the bias is this unrelenting, there is clearly a psychological reason for it.

Sure. It's psychological. It's not just people with an opinion about a sports thing.

You're not wrong that these posts crop up on the regular, just like the "prefer him on the third line" posts. But unless you've been tracking who's who over the years, I don't know that it's not the same 2-4 posters every time. What I know for sure is that when the topic comes up, opinions are at best split on what to make of Jenner and his role/status/future on the CBJ.

I also note that, in this recent sub-discussion on the topic, you have lumped in people whose take is "Boone is a better player than io generally given credit" with people who hate Boone Jenner.

 

[majormajor]

Sure. It's psychological. It's not just people with an opinion about a sports thing.

You're not wrong that these posts crop up on the regular, just like the "prefer him on the third line" posts. But unless you've been tracking who's who over the years, I don't know that it's not the same 2-4 posters every time. What I know for sure is that when the topic comes up, opinions are at best split on what to make of Jenner and his role/status/future on the CBJ.

Certainly split.

But it's more than 2-4. I could list you more names than that right now, just from people who have been bringing it up recently.

I also note that, in this recent sub-discussion on the topic, you have lumped in people whose take is "Boone is a better player than io generally given credit" with people who hate Boone Jenner.

Hate is the wrong word for it but if someone says "Jenner is underrated by many, I'm a fan, good player, not good enough for the top six but can play fine on the third line", then they are one of the people underrating Boone Jenner.

(this is meant to be illustrative, not a quote of that poster).

 

[Monstershockey]

I thought this was my thread.

 

[thebus88]

Uhhhhhhh

Other than Laine, he’s clearly been the biggest headache and negatively impactful player over the last 5 or so years.

Being a goalie makes you inherently a MORE IMPORTANT player.

We’ve had situation after situation of players showing their disdain having to play in front of Elvis for a multitude of reasons. I’ve tried to explain many times how important the relationship is between a team and their goalie, and seemingly a good number can’t or won’t seem to acknowledge that.

I can’t wait for the stories and defensive DEFLECTION to come out, after the dude is finally moved, in whatever possible way.

 

[NotTooWideArena]

I wonder if we've seen Elvis' last game in Union Blue? It looks like Jet is getting an extended audition, which makes me think the front office wants more info to help decide what needs to be done in the off-season.

Could Gardner's stint in Cleveland be related to that? I know he needs to go back to junior next season, but how far into the future does he project to be NHL-ready? And I wonder if there are any rumors out of Russia about Ivanov?

Anyway, if Elvis moves along I will wish him well against everybody but the CBJ.

 

[majormajor]

I wonder if we've seen Elvis' last game in Union Blue? It looks like Jet is getting an extended audition, which makes me think the front office wants more info to help decide what needs to be done in the off-season.

Could Gardner's stint in Cleveland be related to that? I know he needs to go back to junior next season, but how far into the future does he project to be NHL-ready? And I wonder if there are any rumors out of Russia about Ivanov?

Anyway, if Elvis moves along I will wish him well against everybody but the CBJ.

Jet is NHL ready and has proven it enough, his readiness certainly should influence whether Elvis is kept on board. I don't think Gardner or Ivanov factor in. Their timelines are years out. Maybe four or five years for Gardner.

 

[VT]

You see, he's on the Blue Jackets, and the Blue Jackets have been bad, therefore he is bad, and we should get rid of him. Nevermind that good playoff teams have more Boone Jenner types than bad teams do. We don't need any players like him. Only shiny new toys.

Forgive me folks for the caricature, but you can't make a roster argument why Boone has to be traded, only nonsense arguments.

(I'm not directing this solely at VT, it's a common perspective here on our board).

I like Boone. But he's not getting any younger, and he's often injured. On the upside, we can get 1 round for him, which we can use in acquiring a player that could help us long term.

Of course that doesn't mean he has to be traded at any cost. In his case, only if it would be a good trade for us.

About Elvis, let's be honest. We can only trade him if we keep half the salary. It's also questionable if there will be a quality replacement. Because I doubt Waddell is counting on Greaves and especially Tarasov as future #1 goalies.