News Article: The Edmonton Rush moving to Saskatoon

[Replacement*]

So you have to make lots of money before being worthy of a jersey retirement?

No you have to be remotely relevant.

Lets retire the jersey of the Zamboni driver (who makes more money) just because.

jebus more people in the world know the Oilers former ice makers than know who Jimmy Quinlan the Lacrosse player is.

 

[PBandJ]

So is it ridiculous they don't take down the Oil King banners before every Oiler game? I'd hate to compare the Memorial Cup championship to the Stanley Cup and cheapen it.

Those Oilers banners cheapen the NHL too, they should be taken down.

 

[Replacement*]

So is it ridiculous they don't take down the Oil King banners before every Oiler game? I'd hate to compare the Memorial Cup championship to the Stanley Cup and cheapen it.

The Oil Kings, and the Edmonton Oilers, were both owned by the same man, Bill Hunter, and have a very connected lineage to present day where in fact the Oilers own the Oil Kings. So its a completely different matter. Oil Kings are also a hockey team (people in Canada care about hockey) and a team that has raised countless professional and famous players through the years.

Theres also about 70 Junior A Hockey clubs in Canada so winning the Memorial Cup is of course a significant task worthy of note. Winning a league composed of 8-9teams of players making some of the lowest wages found in NA, and who are irrelevant, not so much..

 

[BarDownBobo]

The Rush have had average attendance this year of around 6,400. With a lot of give aways, promotions and low priced tickets in general being the deal. Really I wonder how many people pay regular price to go to games or how much that "chunk of change" is.
Theres overhead in operating a facility, staffing it, utilities, etc. The rush have drawn a total of 50K people all season. That ain't much.

Eskimos would exceed the Rush's sesonal gate $ in one home game.

lol that the entire salary cap for a NLL club is less than the lowest NHL contract. Yeah, theres no way I can take seriously the notion that a Lacrosse player, any Lacrosse player, should have his *retired* jersey up there in the rafters. Not to mention the player wouldn't be retired at all but having to earn his continued living like any working stiff given that his maximum pay was 25K.

This post really shows your lack of knowledge with regards to the Rush. Their attendance has dropped this year because the owner has stopped with the freebies and cheap tickets. The profit they're making for Northlands is from concession sales, which Northlands gets 100% of.

Also regarding your 'retired' comment, how many CFL players have jobs outside of football? There's a fair chunk of them that do. Does that mean we shouldn't honor Eskimos players too?

 

[Replacement*]

This post really shows your lack of knowledge with regards to the Rush. Their attendance has dropped this year because the owner has stopped with the freebies and cheap tickets. The profit they're making for Northlands is from concession sales, which Northlands gets 100% of.

Also regarding your 'retired' comment, how many CFL players have jobs outside of football? There's a fair chunk of them that do. Does that mean we shouldn't honor Eskimos players too?

I'll try again seeing as my point doesn't seem to be clear. Ask anybody in town who the Esks are that are retired at Commonwealth and chances are they know who they are. Ask pretty much anybody in the world who Warren Moon is and theres a pretty good chance they'd heard of the guy. Jimmy Quinlan? No, outside of fringe followers of a fringe sport nobody knows who that is.

Next, a CFL cap is about 10X what an NLL cap is and with several of those CFL players having had NFL stints where they could make more money in one season than the entire NLL *players association*.

Now before you accuse me of being elitist (I'm not) or emphasizing money ( I don't) the argument is that in terms of professional entertainer relevance people usually earn somewhere commensurate to what their draw capacity, fame, importance, reknown is. kind of the way the world and free market works.

Thus a standup comedian playing Arena's makes more money, is more famous, than a stand up guy playing dusty lounges for spare change.

Next, the Eskimos are a famed Edmonton institution that everybody in the city knows about. Until the NHL Oilers came into being, guys like Jackie Parker. Warren Moon, Tom Wilkinson, were the most famous Edmontonians PERIOD. A guy by the name of Gizmo latter day was as famous as any Oiler here during his time here. Could still be among the most famous Edmontonians ever. Who doesn't know about Henry Williams or recognize his beaming smile and gifts as an entertainer?

The Oilers are a big thing in Edmonton. The Eskimos are a big thing in Edmonton. Lacrosse is not at all a big thing in Edmonton. Never has been.

Btw as for cheap tickets I can get 22 or 25 buck Lacrosse tickets from any of 8 different sources. Can get them any time I like. If I ever wanted to. Or if anybody wanted to.

I could also get giveaway tickets from work anytime I want to for every game. Which I've never bothered with and never will.

 

[PBandJ]

I couldn't tell you any of the retired Eskimos because I don't care, the Eskimos are a joke.

 

[Lock]

I don't get the people who are *****ing about Katz doing this. I hate him as much as anyone else, but this is strictly a business action. Why would you let someone make money off of something that you have paid for the exclusive right to use? It is trivial ******** (especially given the state of the Oilers franchise), but its a standard thing to do. I don't really see anything more behind this.

I always love the fact that people will excuse any type of behaviour if its 'for business.'

"I had to bite that bunny's head off! It wasnt personal, it was just business."

Really? Is it just a 'business decision?' Because I dont see where Katz or the Oilers are raking in the cash from their trademark of 'The Battle of Alberta' or the loads of cash they're losing from the Rush's apparently unlicensed use of it.

If anything, its the opposite of a business decision, it seems more like a personal grudge against the Rush.

 

[Replacement*]

I couldn't tell you any of the retired Eskimos because I don't care, the Eskimos are a joke.

This being your ISOLATED opinion. 40K people that go to games, or the close to half million tickets sold in a season disagree with you.

As stated the Eskimos get more gate and concessions in one game than the Rush would in an entire season.

So let me get this straight. You've never heard of Warren Moon? He's one of the Alltime most famous Football players in the world.

Hey I know we're just bashing heads at this point but nothing wrong with a lil reality.

Heres a funny thing. Each year here somebody starts a Lacrosse thread. The thread always disappears through inaction and nobody even caring enough to comment on the team or sport. You could bump it if you want to and give it some love.

 

[PBandJ]

Yeah, I know Warren Moon. Had no clue they retired his number though. The Esks has been so mediocre, why would I care about anything to do with them?

 

[Replacement*]

Yeah, I know Warren Moon. Had no clue they retired his number though. The Esks has been so mediocre, why would I care about anything to do with them?

Team is entertaining and competitive under Hervey and Jones and only getting better.

Commonwealth stadium is a great facility in which to enjoy some summer games.

The team actually respects its fans, has affordable tickets, has arranged park and ride and ETS free rides for any ticket holder to and from games.

You're young so I can see you not getting the heritage aspect but the team won it all as recently as 2005. Not like its light years removed from success like the Oilers.

CFL is a good league and part of the Canadian experience for most people. See games on everywhere, very good ratings.

Lacrosse isn't even on TV that I know of. Maybe Shaw Channel or something or a game here and there if Rogers is hard up for events.

 

[PBandJ]

With a few exceptions, most "legendary" CFL players couldn't hack it in real pro football and had to settle for the CFL. High school teams in Texas are more legit than CFL teams.

I can't respect a D level league retiring numbers like it's the best when it isn't even close. At least the NLL is the highest level of pro lacrosse.

I like to watch the CFL, but I watch knowing it's pretty low level football.

 

[Replacement*]

With a few exceptions, most "legendary" CFL players couldn't hack it in real pro football and had to settle for the CFL. High school teams in Texas are more legit than CFL teams.

I can't respect a D level league retiring numbers like it's the best when it isn't even close. At least the NLL is the highest level of pro lacrosse.

I like to watch the CFL, but I watch knowing it's pretty low level football.

AS a Pro League CFL is second clearly to the NFL. But how is it a D league?

You underestimate the product as well. In any given year the CFL see's hundreds of players that have had NFL experience.



Put it this way. Millions of football players legitimately wanted to make a living playing football and with a lot of them dreaming playing real pro ball and a lot that have played at very competitive levels. A lot of those players make up Eskimos players. They're all highly touted products that played the game at a high level. Most of them have played NCAA or NFL ball. Most CFL players have. Overwhelmingly majority. That's the league you were calling a joke. Could just be a ridiculous comment on your part.

"Highest level of pro Lacrosse"

There is no pro Lacrosse. Its in name only. If you're paying people 12K it isn't a pro league to me and I have zero respect for it as a pro sport. Well, I don't even remotely consider it one.

Nobody dreams of making a living playing Lacrosse or being even recognizable outside of what is a fringe sport and a fringe following.

Looks like Rush attendance is dying again. Lol that they put a club in Vancouver. looks like the league is NLL hemorrhaging again. How does this league even afford getting players to road games? Do they stay at hostels?

 

[PBandJ]

One of the best QB's in the CFL held a clipboard on the Jets practice squad. that's all I need to know.

 

[abootzky]

I love the Eskimos and like the Rush too- despite the fact that they both play in under-the-radar leagues. As for the big-league big-time Oilers, they are from likable or lovable these days.

 

[BarDownBobo]

I'll try again seeing as my point doesn't seem to be clear. Ask anybody in town who the Esks are that are retired at Commonwealth and chances are they know who they are. Ask pretty much anybody in the world who Warren Moon is and theres a pretty good chance they'd heard of the guy. Jimmy Quinlan? No, outside of fringe followers of a fringe sport nobody knows who that is.

Next, a CFL cap is about 10X what an NLL cap is and with several of those CFL players having had NFL stints where they could make more money in one season than the entire NLL *players association*.

Now before you accuse me of being elitist (I'm not) or emphasizing money ( I don't) the argument is that in terms of professional entertainer relevance people usually earn somewhere commensurate to what their draw capacity, fame, importance, reknown is. kind of the way the world and free market works.

Thus a standup comedian playing Arena's makes more money, is more famous, than a stand up guy playing dusty lounges for spare change.

Next, the Eskimos are a famed Edmonton institution that everybody in the city knows about. Until the NHL Oilers came into being, guys like Jackie Parker. Warren Moon, Tom Wilkinson, were the most famous Edmontonians PERIOD. A guy by the name of Gizmo latter day was as famous as any Oiler here during his time here. Could still be among the most famous Edmontonians ever. Who doesn't know about Henry Williams or recognize his beaming smile and gifts as an entertainer?

The Oilers are a big thing in Edmonton. The Eskimos are a big thing in Edmonton. Lacrosse is not at all a big thing in Edmonton. Never has been.

Btw as for cheap tickets I can get 22 or 25 buck Lacrosse tickets from any of 8 different sources. Can get them any time I like. If I ever wanted to. Or if anybody wanted to.

I could also get giveaway tickets from work anytime I want to for every game. Which I've never bothered with and never will.

Sure, anyone can tell you who Warren Moon is, he's one of the greatest football players ever. Way to be selective there. I've lived in the Edmonton area all my life and could not tell you who the hell Tom Wilkinson is. And it's not like I completely ignore the CFL either, I go to a fair share of games every year and watch the majority of the Esks games on TV.

It's quite obvious that you don't like lacrosse, and that's quite fine. But why you feel the need to discredit it as a professional sport is beyond me.

 

[BarDownBobo]

AS a Pro League CFL is second clearly to the NFL. But how is it a D league?

You underestimate the product as well. In any given year the CFL see's hundreds of players that have had NFL experience.



Put it this way. Millions of football players legitimately wanted to make a living playing football and with a lot of them dreaming playing real pro ball and a lot that have played at very competitive levels. A lot of those players make up Eskimos players. They're all highly touted products that played the game at a high level. Most of them have played NCAA or NFL ball. Most CFL players have. Overwhelmingly majority. That's the league you were calling a joke. Could just be a ridiculous comment on your part.

"Highest level of pro Lacrosse"

There is no pro Lacrosse. Its in name only. If you're paying people 12K it isn't a pro league to me and I have zero respect for it as a pro sport. Well, I don't even remotely consider it one.

Nobody dreams of making a living playing Lacrosse or being even recognizable outside of what is a fringe sport and a fringe following.

Looks like Rush attendance is dying again. Lol that they put a club in Vancouver. looks like the league is NLL hemorrhaging again. How does this league even afford getting players to road games? Do they stay at hostels?

This is just absolutely not true. Everybody has different aspirations in life, just because they're not yours doesn't mean they don't exist. IIRC, John Tavares has said that if he could make similar money playing hockey or lacrosse, he'd pick lacrosse. Just because it is a small market here doesn't mean it is everywhere. Colorado and Buffalo both sell out for almost every game they play, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that they've had time to grow on their market.

 

[Replacement*]

Sure, anyone can tell you who Warren Moon is, he's one of the greatest football players ever. Way to be selective there. I've lived in the Edmonton area all my life and could not tell you who the hell Tom Wilkinson is. And it's not like I completely ignore the CFL either, I go to a fair share of games every year and watch the majority of the Esks games on TV.

It's quite obvious that you don't like lacrosse, and that's quite fine. But why you feel the need to discredit it as a professional sport is beyond me.

Oh wait, its OK to have a thread discrediting the focal point of this board, the Edmonton Oilers and them thinking its ridiculous to have a NLL jersey hanging from the rafters. Which I agree, its patently ridiculous.
So in the midst of this discussion its perfectly acceptable for me to confront ridiculous assertions that Quinlans jersey deserves to be up there with the legendary greats of hockey. That's what I'm doing if you forgot.

This is just absolutely not true. Everybody has different aspirations in life, just because they're not yours doesn't mean they don't exist. IIRC, John Tavares has said that if he could make similar money playing hockey or lacrosse, he'd pick lacrosse. Just because it is a small market here doesn't mean it is everywhere. Colorado and Buffalo both sell out for almost every game they play, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that they've had time to grow on their market.

What is absolutely not true? Franchise players make 33K MAX Veterans make 28K MAX.

http://inlacrossewetrust.com/nll-luxury-tax-salary-information/


Who could make a living on that or dreams of it? Some aspirations are silly from an economic pov. If someone wants to spend their most productive years of life being Peter Pan or trying to chase Lacrosse contracts in a land of plenty I guess that's up to them. That isn't my point. If somebody CHOOSES to spend their life in obscurity chasing obscure dreams one probably shouldn't expect to be handsomely paid for being in a form of sporting entertainment for which theres virtually no audience and shouldn't expect to be up there getting jerseys retired in rafters with greats that are among the biggest legends of our country.

Next, theres this false notion of "if only enough time these markets would grow" which is absolute bunk. The NLL has been trying to farm out that idea since its inauguration and has lost countless franchises pretending such markets exist. In reality NLL does OK in maybe 4-5 markets. Buffalo, Colorado, Toronto, Calgary. Theres many more busts than anything and a league that has deflated to 9 from a high of 14 and looks to have two locations, Philly, Vancouver that are pathetically attended.
One also has to consider that in a league where theres only 9 home dates/season that having only 4 clubs that average more than 10K is not a viable recipe in pro sports. Its currently sustainable only because of players that don't get paid professional salary. Not sure why or how they make this choice of a barnstorm low pay circuit but they do.
Reality is Lacrosse has never been a legitimate pro sport and never will be. NLL actually seems to be in another decline.

Finally, you know that for years Bruce Urban was falsely stating that if only the Rush were a winning club the audience would come. They've been the best team in the league this season and last and have actually less reported attendance. The fanbase isn't growing. At all. Indeed it would probably be bad news for the league to have Edmonton be a successful club on the pitch, and Calgary fielding a losing team.

The Rush have been here a decade. Attendance is decreasing if theres any pattern. Certainly no case can be made that the team is financially viable. Not even Bruce Urban currently believes that.

 

[PBandJ]

Lacrosse players are 10x the athletes hockey players are as well. Well, that isn't saying much, benchwarmers and one and dones in the other major North American sports are more than 10x the athletes hockey players are.

Phil Kessel would get laughed out of any other major pro league.

 

[Replacement*]

More on the myth of the viability of the NLL;

Since 94 the NLL has had 38 clubs in 32 markets. Only 9 of them remain. That in itself should tell the story about this barnstorm circuit and that it isn't viable. That for decades it hasn't really found an audience and that as a league has been pretty much a failure. This is no business model for any pro league. I can't imagine the stories of all the owners that took a bath with this sorry product.

Essentially its the league that nobody wants. That is the story of the NLL and *pro* Lacrosse leagues before it.

Now I remembered how the Oilers and Northlands have conflicted with Bruce Urban before. Urban was somehow expecting the same lease arrangements and revenue streams at Rexall that the Oilers had obtained through hard bargaining. The Oilers laughed at that, Northlands laughed at it, the City laughed at it, and the Rush kept bleeding money.

 

[Raab]

I couldn't tell you any of the retired Eskimos because I don't care, the Eskimos are a joke.

Search Warren Moon. Every now and then a special football player will come through the organization and you'll get to see that player. The same can't be said about the Rush.

 

[PBandJ]

Search Warren Moon. Every now and then a special football player will come through the organization and you'll get to see that player. The same can't be said about the Rush.

That's nice. Still don't care.

A bunch of old players from a bygone era where the CFL was at its best and still less respected than American high school football don't concern me.

Just like the Oilers. I've stopped giving a **** about anyone from the 1980's. I'm tired of hearing about it.

 

[Replacement*]

Lacrosse players are 10x the athletes hockey players are as well. Well, that isn't saying much, benchwarmers and one and dones in the other major North American sports are more than 10x the athletes hockey players are.

Phil Kessel would get laughed out of any other major pro league.

The nonsense never stops. Anytime theres a discussion on Lacrosse its the same silly stuff being stated. Its like theres a cultish book out there where the few acolytes huddle around clinging to any Lacrosse beliefs..

and actually Kessel would probably get along fine in Baseball as either a slugger, catcher, or a pitcher in terms of physique. Last time I checked football lineman could lose a little weight as well.

Lets not even get started on Curling or golf.

In anycase as a sport, and in a recreational or exercise sense I would have little qualms with Lacrosse. Definitely good exercise, a great workout, results in sore muscles you didn't know you had, and is a very difficult and physical sport to play.

But so is competitive Squash and I don't know why anybody slams into walls either as their first recreation choice.

Rugby another. Special breed.

Lacrosse holds its own with any as a participant sport. It just isn't much of a spectator sport.

btw your hockey quote is outdated. In reference to other sports its the type of thing that people would say decades ago. They shouldn't really be saying it now. Hockey is much more athletic and rigorous than it was back in the 70's when chain smokers could play.

 

[Replacement*]

That's nice. Still don't care.

A bunch of old players from a bygone era where the CFL was at its best and still less respected than American high school football don't concern me.

Just like the Oilers. I've stopped giving a **** about anyone from the 1980's. I'm tired of hearing about it.

Maybe you want to look at a CURRENT Eskimos roster and denote all the players with past NFL experience, highly touted NCAA background, or highly touted CIS experience.

Every international playing in the CFL is pretty talented. Every one of them have been great athletes. Every one of them have been highly touted. Canadian players continue to play the game at a high level as well.

You're taking a position here of saying that Edmonton Rush players are great, Lacrosse players are great, and you're denouncing the talents of NHL, NFL, CFL, NCAA talents.

You may think that's a tenable position. I think its an obstinate one and that you wake up embarrassed about what you were arguing.

 

[sepHF]

What a joke

The "Battle" of Alberta hasn't existed in almost a decade.

 

[Raab]

That's nice. Still don't care.

A bunch of old players from a bygone era where the CFL was at its best and still less respected than American high school football don't concern me.

Just like the Oilers. I've stopped giving a **** about anyone from the 1980's. I'm tired of hearing about it.

How about Doug Flutie, Jeff Garcia, Cam Wake? Recognize any of those names... To say the NLL is on the same level as the CFL is ridiculous. Once Lacrosse stops losing it's best players to other sports then they might finally grow as a sport. Right now it's just not that entertaining and a ton of the best lacrosse players end up playing hockey or baseball.