HF Habs: The Development Thread

[Indca]

Hello there guys;
It seems we can count on one hand the number of successful development from Habs after 2007, which in turn left GM in desperate to sign free agents where we hit some and miss some.

Is this change now related to management developmental technique or quality of prospects being drafted.

Why were we failing before where we are succeeding now?

 

[montreal]

We'll see as right now it's looking great for Caufield, Suzuki and Dach but fans will sour if they cool off. It's too early to really say if the Habs are any good at development or not. I have to admit for a new management team it was music to my ears to hear everything they have done but several of their moves I haven't really agreed with so we'll see how it plays out. I don't think i've ever been this impressed with how well Hughes speaks and just seems to get it. So i'm hoping that with all these smart people running the team now, that we see much, much better results with development.

 

[salbutera]

Wasn't aware that a 30 something year old Markov would count as being developed under Therrien...

Anyways, let's move on back to the actual topic.

Therrien coached Markov in AHL (Québec Citadelles), and then again w Habs during 1st go around in 2001.

So did Therrien magically develop Markov in AHL?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Therrien coached Markov in AHL (Québec Citadelles), and then again w Habs during 1st go around in 2001.

So did Therrien magically develop Markov in AHL?

Fair enough, he didn't kill Andrei Markov. I'd argue that Markov didn't really do anything under him either.

 

[salbutera]

Fair enough, he didn't kill Andrei Markov. I'd argue that Markov didn't really do anything under him either.

Markov became a 1st pairing D during Therrien reign of terror.

Plekanec also played for Julien nearly 2-years years in AHL & NHL - did Julien magically develop him and Bergeron w Bruins, but magically forgot how to when KK came along?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Markov became a 1st pairing D during Therrien reign of terror.

In Therrien's only full season where he was the only coach, Markov was our 7th most used blueliner per average ice. He produced about the same as the previous season when he was under Vigneault. In the 2002-03 year it's half him half Julien.

So, sure give him some credit. But look at that lineup as well. And he uses 6 other guys ahead of him - including guys like Boullion. To me, that doesn't scream great developer. It's more a case of him surviving MT. He was easily our best producer per minute.... so why was he only getting 16 minutes per night? Why was he behind Bouillion?

That's just more stupid shit from a guy who doesn't know what he's doing.

Plekanec also played for Julien nearly 2-years years in AHL - did Julien magically develop him and Bergeron w Bruins, but magically forgot how to when KK came along?

And that's cool. But again, Pleks didn't develop under him at the NHL level.

 

[Garbageyuk]

This is just plain false.

Again, he produced over and over again when used on the first line. He stopped producing after injuries.

Even if that were true, it doesn’t matter. His production came with all the other BS that is unjustifiable/unsustainable at the NHL level. You’d have to excuse/ignore every other facet of the game to just get him to produce like an average top-6 player, which is what happened. It isn’t sustainable at the NHL level. That’s why the times he produced were always when the team had tons of injuries or when they were out of the playoff picture.

His talent isn’t enough to justify playing him with all his deficiencies and flaws in the top-6, not in the NHL. That’s why he’s had limited roles his entire career, he refuses to work on his weak areas, even today.

If you want to play the injury card (every player goes through injuries), then you’d probably have to realize that he came into the NHL with a major injury history, and if that’s what held him back, then he was doomed from the start, and development still wasn’t the main factor.

 

[salbutera]

And that's cool. But again, Pleks didn't develop under him at the NHL level.

2005-2006 season Julien was head coach for 3/4 of the season

That’s why development is bullshit - it’s all about the players desire to learn & do what it takes be great at the NHL level - no one can teach the individual such hunger

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

2005-2006 season Julien was head coach for 3/4 of the season

That’s why development is bullshit - it’s all about the players desire to learn & do what it takes be great at the NHL level - no one can teach the individual such hunger

I don’t think Julien is nearly as bad as MT. I don’t think he’s great but he’s not terrible either.

 

[Miller Time]

“Development” is a bullshit red herring. Yes repetition can help refine / fine tune aspects of a game but willingness / having the capacity to learn and execute teachings are purely based on elite level hunger

Candidate for the most ill-informed take of the year, chapeau!

Guess we should start dna testing for that "elite level hunger" @ birth and save the cost of schooling wasted on all those born without it, right?

You know, since the capacity to learn only exist in those fortunate few

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Even if that were true, it doesn’t matter.

It is true and of course it matters.

His production came with all the other BS that is unjustifiable/unsustainable at the NHL level. You’d have to excuse/ignore every other facet of the game to just get him to produce like an average top-6 player, which is what happened. It isn’t sustainable at the NHL level. That’s why the times he produced were always when the team had tons of injuries or when they were out of the playoff picture.

So, let me get this straight... his weaknesses on the first line were unforgiveable but... it made sense to a guy with the same weaknesses there instead - only worse in every way.

???????????????

His talent isn’t enough to justify playing him with all his deficiencies and flaws in the top-6, not in the NHL. That’s why he’s had limited roles his entire career, he refuses to work on his weak areas, even today.

Again, this might make sense if we weren't playing an inferior player there. But we did.

And again, when he was used in the top spot not only did he produce but our team as a whole was far more successful. You may not remember this but our team couldn't score worth shit. David Desharnais went like 20 games with one point.

It made NO SENSE to keep him there. None.

If you want to play the injury card (every player goes through injuries), then you’d probably have to realize that he came into the NHL with a major injury history, and if that’s what held him back, then he was doomed from the start, and development still wasn’t the main factor.

"Injury card." Get out of here with this.

 

[montreal]

Therrien coached Markov in AHL (Québec Citadelles), and then again w Habs during 1st go around in 2001.

So did Therrien magically develop Markov in AHL?

Therrien coached Markov in the AHL for 14 games so I don't see the point there.

 

[montreal]

That’s why development is bullshit - it’s all about the players desire to learn & do what it takes be great at the NHL level - no one can teach the individual such hunger

I don't know how anyone could think development is bullshit, that's batshit crazy to me. Caufield scores 1 goal under Dom, so did he just not have the desire to learn but then suddenly found it under MSL.

 

[HuGort]

Development key is too let them play and dominate at each level before moving on. Surround them with quality veterans. Both in AHL and NHL Extend the AHL season. Playoffs are different. The extra playoff games against good teams learns them a lot.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

2005-2006 season Julien was head coach for 3/4 of the season

That’s why development is bullshit - it’s all about the players desire to learn & do what it takes be great at the NHL level - no one can teach the individual such hunger

And the award for worst take in 2022 (not by Norman Flynn) goes to...

 

[Miller Time]

I don't know how anyone could think development is bullshit, that's batshit crazy to me. Caufield scores 1 goal under Dom, so did he just not have the desire to learn but then suddenly found it under MSL.

some posters just clearly have no experience or background in the subject matter... yet feel confident spouting out hot empty takes as if they are grounded in anything more than emotional reactivity... sign of the times, c'est la vie

 

[Adam Michaels]

Nice article by Marco here giving us a glimpse on how the Habs' development departments have an impact on the players (prospects in Junior or college and even in Laval). It also shows how much work Nicholas puts in.

 

[EXPOS123]

Nice article by Marco here giving us a glimpse on how the Habs' development departments have an impact on the players (prospects in Junior or college and even in Laval). It also shows how much work Nicholas puts in.

Just goes to show how much this org. was still stuck in the dark ages.

And then we wonder why we haven’t won a cup in 30 years

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

After interviewing almost every Canadiens prospect this season, a ton of them praised the work of the Canadiens' new-look development staff. Many credited the staff with helping them have career years.

Filip Mesar, Lane Hutson and other prospects gave us a peak into what's changed in this latest story:

Canadiens Prospects Praise Habs New-Look Development Team

The Montreal Canadiens recently made major adjustments to their developmental process, and their prospects have loved the impact it’s had on their game. When Jeff Gorton and Kent Hughes were brought on for the roles of Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations and General Manager, one of...

montrealhockeynow.com

This article is very informative and need more like it rather than others thar just reiterate what has already been said. Granted, in a season that sucks for the Habs it's hard to get fresh topics.

More like this please.

 

[donghabs98]

Nice article by Marco here giving us a glimpse on how the Habs' development departments have an impact on the players (prospects in Junior or college and even in Laval). It also shows how much work Nicholas puts in.

Really makes you wonder what could have been had this been in place earlier. So many prospects during the Bergevin era who showed pronise never could make the step to the pro level.

 

[SupRocket]

After interviewing almost every Canadiens prospect this season, a ton of them praised the work of the Canadiens' new-look development staff. Many credited the staff with helping them have career years.

Filip Mesar, Lane Hutson and other prospects gave us a peak into what's changed in this latest story:

Canadiens Prospects Praise Habs New-Look Development Team

The Montreal Canadiens recently made major adjustments to their developmental process, and their prospects have loved the impact it’s had on their game. When Jeff Gorton and Kent Hughes were brought on for the roles of Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations and General Manager, one of...

montrealhockeynow.com

Feels good to have a management that has arrived in 2023.

 

[atrud66]

After interviewing almost every Canadiens prospect this season, a ton of them praised the work of the Canadiens' new-look development staff. Many credited the staff with helping them have career years.

Filip Mesar, Lane Hutson and other prospects gave us a peak into what's changed in this latest story:

Canadiens Prospects Praise Habs New-Look Development Team

The Montreal Canadiens recently made major adjustments to their developmental process, and their prospects have loved the impact it’s had on their game. When Jeff Gorton and Kent Hughes were brought on for the roles of Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations and General Manager, one of...

montrealhockeynow.com

This is really great to hear! Sounds like they've finally made the investment and hired the right people to take our prospects to the next level

 

[JianYang]

Fair enough, he didn't kill Andrei Markov. I'd argue that Markov didn't really do anything under him either.

Certain prospects are in a tier where you wonder if their career might have turned out somewhat better under the right conditions.

Markov to me was a tier above that grade. He struck me as the kind of player who was too good to fail, despite what hurdles may have been infront of him in the earlier stages.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

Really makes you wonder what could have been had this been in place earlier. So many prospects during the Bergevin era who showed pronise never could make the step to the pro level.

Still remember the bits about Lefebvre telling McCarron, when he finally was getting out of his shell offensively in the AHL, that he wasn't drafted for that at the next level and should focus on his physical play instead.

Not saying he would have been better, but yeah, someone saying development is 'bullshit' should shut the f*** up, cause it definitely isn't.

Edit: Found the quote...

 

[donghabs98]

Still remember the bits about Lefebvre telling McCarron, when he finally was getting out of his shell offensively in the AHL, that he wasn't drafted for that at the next level and should focus on his physical play instead.

Not saying he would have been better, but yeah, someone saying development is 'bullshit' should shut the f*** up, cause it definitely isn't.

Edit: Found the quote...

Still cant believe he was kept around as long as he was. A terrible coach who Id argue ruined a lot of prospects. This quote is a good example. It baffles me that a coach would knowingly pigeonhole a player into a role that early in his career.