The defense is 1 piece away from being set.

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Marino is not anymore, and who knows about Murphy.



That makes our team worse.

I was just pointing out Sergachev as you were paying a lot for Fowler and Sergachev wasn't had for much more than you were offering.



He is bad relative to other players on Anaheim.

Are we just ignoring that he is bad there all together and hope he turns it around?

You aren't going to have good stats on the ducks It's not going to happen

 

[notbias]

You aren't going to have good stats on the ducks It's not going to happen

I said relative to his teammates... he has bad stats compared to the players he plays with.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I said relative to his teammates... he has bad stats compared to the players he plays with.

I know and I don't care because It's the Ducks they are a disgrace and will continue to be a disgrace because they didn't even ATTEMPT to get better.

all they did was draft a kid 3rd overall and He's probably not helping them this year considering based on the look on his face he didn't think he was going 3rd overall.

They did NOTHING.

They are a dumpster fire

 

[Avilaj07]

I'd look at acquiring Tanev and Borgen at the trade deadline.

 

[Stephen]

Fowler is still good he's just a Duck.

There are certain teams where bad stats don't count.

The Ducks are one of those teams.

Hampus Lindholm was revived in Boston too, but he's also a couple of years younger, it was a few years ago, and probably all around much better than Fowler.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

I said relative to his teammates... he has bad stats compared to the players he plays with.

Simon Benoit analytically was one of the worst defencemen in anaheim and around the league, he turned out great for us

Why can't fowler potentially do the same?

 

[seanlinden]

Yeah, they're 1 piece away from havign a really good D... it's a little different when that 1 piece is a #1 or #2 defenceman, or a really solid #6.

The vast majority of the teams in the league, if you added 1 stud defenceman to, wuld be instantly elevated to at or near the top of the league.

The list of guys that would put this defensive group "to the top", while being theoretically potentially available is probably pretty short. Parayko, a healthy Connor Murphy would be ideal targets. Rasmus Andersson too. Adam Larsson would have been an excellent addition as well.

The big question of course is -- do the Leafs have the pieces and flexibility to actually acquire one. On the surface, I think you could make an argument that the answer to that is yes. Liljegren & OEL gone makes for $6m of usable cap space, while they've got a few young expendable pieces.

The other challenge to consdier as well though... is age.

Detroit isn't trading Mo Seider, Boston's not trading Charlie McAvoy or Brandon Carlo. NYI's not trading Noah Dobson. The guy you're going to acquire is likely going to be 28-29 or older.

Rielly's 30, Tanev's 34, OEL's 33, McCabe's 30... this is become to be a fairly old group... especially if Liljegren is on the way out.

 

[notbias]

Simon Benoit analytically was one of the worst defencemen in anaheim and around the league, he turned out great for us

Until the playoffs hit and he got the tough assignments.

He didn't even do great in the regular season, just good compared to expectations.

Why can't fowler potentially do the same?

Should we sign every bad D and hope they play better in a reduced role?

Maybe we should go after some of Hamonic, Bear, Barrie, Brown, Tinordi, or Rutta... all these guys had bad numbers on bad teams.

Not saying players can't turn it around, but when Benoit was given the hardest minutes of the season, he failed.

I am open to the idea of a player not playing well on one team and becoming better on another, I just think it is most likely not going to happen, but it does for sure.

For reference, Lagesson had much better numbers on Anaheim last year.

 

[Buds17]

Every championship winner either has a forward or the 3rd line good enough to be in the top 6

Or a dman on the bottom pair good enough to be in the top 4

OEL is good enough to be in the top 4, But if you add 1 more piece that knocks him to the 3rd pair You're loaded.

Yes we do want that.

Fair points that I do agree with. I'm just wondering if Treliving gave meaningful term to both Tanev and OEL because he knew that the cost of adding a top four piece otherwise (trade assets and cap room) relatively soon was going to be too rich for the team's blood? I suppose McCabe entering his walk year could also be a factor though? (aside from reports that both sides are apparently interested in coming together on a new contract).

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Until the playoffs hit and he got the tough assignments.

He didn't even do great in the regular season, just good compared to expectations.

This is the first time I’m hearing he didn’t do great in the regular season, everyone loved the way he played and that how steady he was. It was obviously a bottom pairing role but he was spectacular in it.

As for the playoffs, I thought he was alright, he was tasked to play 2nd pairing with McCabe and in a pure shutdown role, his analytics were never going to look amazing.

Should we sign every bad D and hope they play better in a reduced role?

Maybe we should go after some of Hamonic, Bear, Barrie, Brown, Tinordi, or Rutta... all these guys had bad numbers on bad teams.

Not saying players can't turn it around, but when Benoit was given the hardest minutes of the season, he failed.

I am open to the idea of a player not playing well on one team and becoming better on another, I just think it is most likely not going to happen, but it does for sure.

For reference, Lagesson had much better numbers on Anaheim last year

I mean most teams that are selling…are bad teams. A playoff team most likely isn’t going to sell us a top 4dman, especially at a reasonable cost, and the teams that do have the good defencemen, they are going to cost Cowan+.

Moreover, we’ve seen Lindholm and Manson play great on other teams. Manson in a reduced role and Lindholm in a similar one, so it’s not like Fowler would be the first to do it.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

That all sounds about right. We don't really know if any of those three wanted to come here. I suspect we looked into Peace and Skjei and we know we were in on and didn't get Roy. I wanted Skjei also. What would this look like? Liljegren out? OEL not signed?

Reilly Tanev
Skjei Roy
McCabe Hakanpaa
Benoit

I like that more than one what we have now and more than the in-season options you outline. As you said, the acquisition cost is high.

Option A also assumes we could move out Kampf and Jarnkrok. I think that was tougher pre July 1 when no one wanted to take on salaries to now when teams know how much room they have for the year.

Pesce and Skjei both wanted to stay in the States. A quirky little note about Pesce he has missed more games than Tanev over the last 5 years. Pesce 72 / Tanev 63. I have a bad feeling Pesce is going to become the next Karl Alzner.

As for Roy I think a lot of Leaf fans would have been losing their minds by January if he was here. He is horrible at clearing the front of the net, one of the worst defenceman in the league at stopping cross ice passes in front of the net and is not great against the cycle. He is simply a more consistant version of Liljegren.

 

[notbias]

This is the first time I’m hearing he didn’t do great in the regular season, everyone loved the way he played and that how steady he was. It was obviously a bottom pairing role but he was spectacular in it.

As for the playoffs, I thought he was alright, he was tasked to play 2nd pairing with McCabe and in a pure shutdown role, his analytics were never going to look amazing.

According to pretty much any metric, he wasn't good in the regular season and was bad in the playoffs.

I thought he looked fine/good in the regular season even though his metrics say otherwise, but he looked bad and was bad in the playoffs.

I mean most teams that are selling…are bad teams. A playoff team most likely isn’t going to sell us a top 4dman, especially at a reasonable cost, and the teams that do have the good defencemen, they are going to cost Cowan+.

Moreover, we’ve seen Lindholm and Manson play great on other teams. Manson in a reduced role and Lindholm in a similar one, so it’s not like Fowler would be the first to do it.

Manson was considered a cap dump last year by fans (not sure if this was shared by the majority), Lindholm is a good player and was statistically the best D on his team before he got traded.

 

[Nineteen67]

Fowler for Janrkrok + Lilijgren + 2nd + Niemela?

We should not deal our 1st for Fowler so hopefully that offer is enough

Fowler would make me much more confident tbh in this defense group

Rielly - Tanev
Fowler - McCabe
OEL - Benoit
Hakipana

Still wish we had gotten Roy or Pesce instead of Tanev as they will be better moving forward and are younger

I haven’t seen Niemela other than in WJHC but he looks like he has a lot of potential. They can’t afford to be moving those guys

 

[rumman]

I haven’t seen Niemela other than in WJHC but he looks like he has a lot of potential. They can’t afford to be moving those guys

No need for him being in that deal Lilly plus Janrkrok is more than enough to obtain Fowler imo……..

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

No need for him being in that deal Lilly plus Janrkrok is more than enough to obtain Fowler imo……..

If the Ducks were willing to do that it would already be done.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Simon Benoit analytically was one of the worst defencemen in anaheim and around the league, he turned out great for us

Why can't fowler potentially do the same?

Simon Benoit perfectly separated the stats crowd from the hockey crowd.

 

[steelcurtain6]

I am seeing a bounce back from Phillippe Myers. Kid has not panned out. Philly fried him. I think Berube might be able to resurrect him.

 

[LeafSteel]

Simon Benoit perfectly separated the stats crowd from the hockey crowd.

Yes, why bother watching hockey when you can just look at a bunch of numbers to manipulate and be skewed to support your own narrative?

So much easier than watching and having to rethink the ironclad assessment that you’ve made without actually watching.

How tiresome is that????

Add to it the endless teaching one must do to teach these “eye-test” cave people to see things numerically, well, all I can say we folks with no bBias who are prepared to argue for dDays to enlighten such prehistoric purveyors of hockey must be grateful to be shown the error of our thinking, as outlined by numbers emphatically explained to us.

 

[Arzak]

Lots of teams in the same boat. It all comes down to logistics in today's NHL:

• Do we have the cap room?
• Do we have assets to trade for this player?

Might be nice to maybe draft and develop a stud D someday, rather than plugging holes via trade (leaving our draft capital barren) & UFA (overpaying for aging veterans).

It takes longer for stud D to develop. You would have to keep your picks .

But yeah, would be very nice to have 2-3 more KniesS and 2 yound D we drafted

 

[notbias]

Simon Benoit perfectly separated the stats crowd from the hockey crowd.

So you think getting scored on, not helping the team score, and not helping the PK is a benefit?

Benoit is someone who tries hard and hits, so people think he is being effective, but we are losing with him.

I like Benoit and it is a small sample size, and he did fairly well in a reduced role during the regular season, but those are the facts, sorry if you can't see them.

Yes, why bother watching hockey when you can just look at a bunch of numbers to manipulate and be skewed to support your own narrative?

So much easier than watching and having to rethink the ironclad assessment that you’ve made without actually watching.

How tiresome is that????

Add to it the endless teaching one must do to teach these “eye-test” cave people to see things numerically, well, all I can say we folks with no bBias who are prepared to argue for dDays to enlighten such prehistoric purveyors of hockey must be grateful to be shown the error of our thinking, as outlined by numbers emphatically explained to us.

You can watch and still not follow what is happening... if you thought Benoit helped us win, then you are an example of that.

I saw Benoit being scored on and not helping us score... that doesn't pass the eye test.