The Defence - Quality and Depth

[ShaneFalco]

Great job with the D for sure.
I would like a little more physicality but perhaps if we sign Boosh and Gio we're ok there

 

[mapleleaf979]

Giordano looks like he has played with the Leafs all year, the way he has fit in. Excellent addition.

 

[Ciao]

Duplicate. Delete.

 

[Ciao]

I would trade Sandin from that bunch even though I am very high on him. Of everyone listed, he's the only one without elite mobility but he also has insane puck skills when he's actually in the zone. Chychrun on a second pairing or even top pairing allowing everyone to move down would be insane. Something I would definitely consider as Sandin+1st as a starting point.

Insanely mobile D core with some grit (Liljegren is playing a lot bigger now and Chychrun is like 6'4 and isn't afraid to throw the body).

I sometimes wonder if Sandin would better on left wing than on left defence? Reminds me of Gary Leeman, who was drafted as an all-star defenceman and turned into 50-goal forward.

Come to think of it, Wendel Clark was drafted as a defenceman too, but there's no resemblance there.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I'm pretty sure Sandin's age 19 numbers in the AHL were similarly historic.

he was the most productive 18 year old defenseman in AHL history, but he doesn't really have much competition. He did blow Seider's production away though. And as a 19 year old, he's 2nd to John Carlson in points per game

 

[Buds17]

Quite difficult to find much fault with the individual players that make up the blueline. Have to hope that the group will continue to mesh and progress going forward.

 

[Dreakmur]

Holl has been a quality top 4 dman on a top matchup pairing on one of the best teams in the league for 3yrs now.

Sandin is a 21yr old 1st round pick that was one of the very best bottom pair dmen in hockey this year, which most likely means he's already top 4 caliber, though he does have to prove that still.

Holl was carried by Muzzin when the latter used to be elite. Every time they were separated, Holl was horribly exposed.

Sandin is fine, but needs a lot of seasoning to become a top-4 guy.

 

[Dreakmur]

There's a lot of hard truth there but I think we will all find out soon enough what happened to Muzzy as Leafs have been really good about hiding it .. but to me his big issue from what I know is his ability to stay healthy as he ages .. hard to know if he will both recover and get back into proper condition in last couple weeks but that is da KEY .. Holl also has AHL skills too .. Sandin just skates slower but he has an NHL brain/skills

Sandin has NHL hockey sense, that’s for sure. He’s just such a bad skater that he’ll have to learn to play using his head a lot more.

 

[Mess]

"Defense wins Championships"

 

[Dreakmur]

"Defense wins Championships"

There’s infinite different ways to build a winning team, but the salary cap incentivizes balanced lineups.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Sandin has NHL hockey sense, that’s for sure. He’s just such a bad skater that he’ll have to learn to play using his head a lot more.

Yup his skating will always limit his effectiveness. He can and probably will have a successful career but the wheels will prevent him from the heights his positive attributes would suggest he reach.

 

[Craigo85]

My initial gut reaction was we now have 5 top 4 D (Reilly, Brodie, Lilly, Gio and Muzzin), but I think I'm remembering Muzzin of last year. There's a chance he regains his form, and he can step it up in the playoffs ... but I'm not optomistic.

Rielly: #1 D - not perennial Norris trophy, but not worried if he's my best D on the team
Brodie: #2/3 - not worried who he's out against during the game. amazing partner for somebody like Reilly, but couldn't be the best guy on a top pairing
Gio: Solid #4 right now I think
Lilly: Seems like he easily slides into a #4 spot right now with his recent play. Sure he's young but overall he's a #4 and possibly a #2 by the end of next year. Could be better than Reilly in 2 years if we're lucky.

Muzzin: #5 now after injuries and he's looked terrible at times the past year when paired with Holl, I wouldn't be too worried if he was our 4th if he had a good partner.

Holl: #6 - seems like he hasn't been as good. If we had an injury, had a trade or didn't acquire Gio, I wouldn't be worried that he was our 6th D. But he seems like the odd man out if Muzzin is 100%.

Bush: #6 - style of D we need on the team

Sandin: #6 due to injuries this year, haven't got to see him enough. Expected he'd be higher than this after last year.

Note: just because I have Holl as a 6 and Muzzin as a 5 doesn't mean I want them playing together!

All that being said, we do lack a true dominant #1D unfortunately. Rielly is a solid #1D but not an elite one.

A true dominant #1D, yeah we don't have a Matthews equivalent in Rielly, probably more comparable to Marner's ranking in the forwards. There's probably 10 D I'd like more than Rielly and another 5 that are close to him. His value is probably a bit higher considering the 8 year deal he just did for us too.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yup his skating will always limit his effectiveness. He can and probably will have a successful career but the wheels will prevent him from the heights his positive attributes would suggest he reach.

When I saw these guys in minors I always thought if you could put Dermy's wheels/heart into Sandin's brain/hands you would have an NHL #1 D .. but then again that pick would be 1st overall in draft

 

[zeke]

Holl was carried by Muzzin when the latter used to be elite. Every time they were separated, Holl was horribly exposed.

Demonstrably false. In fact, the reverse might be true.

Sandin is fine, but needs a lot of seasoning to become a top-4 guy.

Just needs an opportunity, like Lilly did, and like mamy other young dmen.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Demonstrably false. In fact, the reverse might be true.


Just needs an opportunity, like Lilly did, and like mamy other young dmen.

There is a HUGE difference .. every other dman/forward on team, except Holl, blows bye Sandin in his 1st 2 strides .. and I mean leaves him in da dust .. and he has no ability to get back .. that MISSING ability which costs us 2 games against Habs last playoffs will hold back Sandin unless Dubie forces da issue like he did with Holl

 

[Dreakmur]

Demonstrably false. In fact, the reverse might be true.


Just needs an opportunity, like Lilly did, and like mamy other young dmen.

You can believe the bar graphs and pie charts if you want, but Justin Holl sucks. If Jake Gardiner didn't score, he'd be Justin Holl.

Sandin need's an opportunity to develop. He's probably going to be good, but he isn't yet. He'd be an ok bottom pair guy with a learning curve, but a contending team isn't the place to learn on the job.

 

[ACC1224]

Holl is the kind of player that makes people question the stats , not one that validates them.

 

[zeke]

You can believe the bar graphs and pie charts if you want, but Justin Holl sucks. If Jake Gardiner didn't score, he'd be Justin Holl.

Sandin need's an opportunity to develop. He's probably going to be good, but he isn't yet. He'd be an ok bottom pair guy with a learning curve, but a contending team isn't the place to learn on the job.

No need for any bar graphs.

Justin Holl has played on the top matchup pair - I.e. full on high level top 4 TOI and QOC - for one of the best teams in the league for years now.

That's called results.

 

[The Iceman]

I do think Sandin is not ripe enough for a playoff series as was exposed last year. he is a tough kid and I think by next year he will be exactly what we need.

HOWEVER, I do think some posters are discrediting Sandin too much. He passes the eye test and was an analytical darling only exposed when asked to play his off side.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Holl is the kind of player that makes people question the stats , not one that validates them.

If a stat is telling me Holl is a top dman I am not paying attention to that stat. He's another Jake Gardiner in a way. Stats love him, he played a lot of minutes for us and most of the time was ok in them. But my god when things go wrong are they ugly.

 

[IPS]

Holl was carried by Muzzin when the latter used to be elite. Every time they were separated, Holl was horribly exposed.

Sandin is fine, but needs a lot of seasoning to become a top-4 guy.

Funny that when Muzzin was injured Holl's new mainstay is Brodie.

We've never seen Holl get an extended look with Rielly. If he's as good as some say he is defensively, then he could probably be a guy who could really let Rielly play his game and be an offensive dynamo much like Hainsey did.

 

[zeke]

Funny that when Muzzin was injured Holl's new mainstay is Brodie.

We've never seen Holl get an extended look with Rielly. If he's as good as some say he is defensively, then he could probably be a guy who could really let Rielly play his game and be an offensive dynamo much like Hainsey did.

Actually where Holl excels is in the puck movement department, not necessarily the pure defensive end of the game, which is why he's not paired with Mo much.

 

[Dreakmur]

No need for any bar graphs.

Justin Holl has played on the top matchup pair - I.e. full on high level top 4 TOI and QOC - for one of the best teams in the league for years now.

That's called results.

He’s lucky other guys are on the ice with him. He’s brutal.

 

[Dreakmur]

Actually where Holl excels is in the puck movement department, not necessarily the pure defensive end of the game, which is why he's not paired with Mo much.

Puck handling might be his best attribute, but he lugs that thing around the ice like it’s a curling stone.

 

[Menzinger]

JFJ, Burke, Noni's and even Lou should be taking notes at how a competitive D core can actually be built over the course of just a couple seasons. Rielly being the only legacy building block to go off from (Lily may get there but he's not yet).

Light-years away from having a guy like Aulie play on the top pairing