The Decline Of Hockey In Quebec

[powerstuck]

St. Louis is indeed the best French player from the NCAA. Another one I can think of is Joe Juneau (Renssaeler). But then again, Joe Juneau is more intelligent than 98% of the population, and that's a conservative estimate. Language wasn't an issue for him, but it can be for lots of teens.

Differences in school system has to be considered as well. Those differences means there cannot be a viable University league in the CIS, due to ages of admission.

Speaking of Joe Juneau, he has been doing something for Quebec's North territories even building an arena and giving opportunity to young Innus to learn and play hockey.

 

[Wolf357]

Is lack of speaking English a factor in not playing in the NCAA? Perhaps 15 years ago? Any young Francophone (millennial or younger) that I have encountered speaks decent if not good English...Gen Xer speak Moderate to poor and Boomers and above speak only French...
Would a 18 year Francophone have any issue playing for Boston College or UND?

 

[patnyrnyg]

Yes, there are over 60 prep-schools in New England alone offering hockey; average tuition between $30,000 ~ $40,000 per annum. Not a whole lot of people have that kind of money. Look at the US players drafted going way back, Leetch, Modano etc, these were all kids from upper-middle class backgrounds. Since the 90's, same with Canadian players. The sport is out of reach, particularly at the advanced / elite levels. Insanely expensive.

No idea on what Leetch's or Modano's financial situation was as a kid. However, I would be very surprised if someone like Leetch was not given a scholarship to Avon Old Farms. Same for guys like Roenick and Amonte who played on the same line at Thayer Academy.

 

[Fenway]

Is lack of speaking English a factor in not playing in the NCAA? Perhaps 15 years ago? Any young Francophone (millennial or younger) that I have encountered speaks decent if not good English...Gen Xer speak Moderate to poor and Boomers and above speak only French...
Would a 18 year Francophone have any issue playing for Boston College or UND?

Those that grew up around Montreal seem to have a good grasp of English but once you get off the island it is a different story.

 

[MXD]

Is lack of speaking English a factor in not playing in the NCAA? Perhaps 15 years ago? Any young Francophone (millennial or younger) that I have encountered speaks decent if not good English...Gen Xer speak Moderate to poor and Boomers and above speak only French...
Would a 18 year Francophone have any issue playing for Boston College or UND?

What Fenway wrote

Those that grew up around Montreal seem to have a good grasp of English but once you get off the island it is a different story.

I'd add the Gatineau area to this, but you'Re essentially right.

Plus, there's a significant difference between "decent grasp" and "good enough to be able to pass a university course in a serious field".

 

[gelu88]

Interesting comparison, check out the names and bios of the kids at the Montreal Impact's academy teams:

http://www.uslsoccer.com.prod.sportngin.com/roster/show/2356886?subseason=280291

or

http://mntl.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=1655595

A lot of names and faces that you don't see in your usual hockey rink.

These are all kids who have been playing at elite levels for years, they are most likely multi-talented athletes who could do anything. Yet it seems there are systemic factors that mean that the don't choose or do not succeed at hockey at any advanced level.

edit: the comparison is even more stark as you get younger, check out the U16 team:

http://mntl.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=1655549

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Quebec and the other provinces that make up the Quebec Junior League are areas that actually have a decline in population. Fewer young adults (potential parents) as they leave for better jobs in other parts of Canada.
Former NHL stars...Pat Lafontaine and Jeremy Roenick play in the Quebec. Can't think of any high profile Americans that played in the Quebec League..Ontario and Western Leagues yes. The "French" education hurts the influx of English speaking students who might have played in the Quebec league.

Actually hockey registration is down in Canada. Expensive, dangerous, and more options might hockey less appealing. And new immigrants don't have hockey to their blood. Even if the newcomers watch it, talk about it, they might direct their children to play another sport.

A generation or more ago, the arena was big gathering spot to small town communities. After school, children would often be at the arena, "supervised" by older children. Could you see that happening now?
The arena wouldn't be open (only to paying patrons) and to do parents allow their kids to mingle the way they used to?

We might be seeing a change in the US too regarding football. There might be fewer teenagers playing organized tackle football due to a injury and liability issues. The young folks just aren't participating at the same numbers as previous generations.

 

[RTN]

This could be another part of a changing identity for Quebec. The province has largely lost its religion and the political influence it once had nationally (i.e. 20 years after the referendum, the rest of Canada has grown apathetic to the province and Ontario/BC/Alberta have gained clout). It could be hockey is the next cultural bastion to change as well. In 50 or 100 years, it very well could be language. (I know that would be unthinkable for some, but so were some of these other changes 100 years ago.)

But, like many have mentioned, I agree that the driving forces are cost and the changing interests of young people, with the changed social/political structures also playing a role.

 

[Killion]

But, like many have mentioned, I agree that the driving forces are cost and the changing interests of young people, with the changed social/political structures also playing a role.

Yeah, very much so on this. Entirely different country really from what it was 30-40-50yrs ago. Canada & certainly Quebec a real hot-house in developing talent as everyone's so well aware.

 

[Fenway]

I really don't have the time or means to do this but what percentage of Canadian players today were born in Quebec? I think one would find the % is roughly the same but the % of Canadian players in the NHL is down as more players from the US and Europe are playing.

 

[Killion]

I really don't have the time or means to do this but what percentage of Canadian players today were born in Quebec? I think one would find the % is roughly the same but the % of Canadian players in the NHL is down as more players from the US and Europe are playing.

My God Man. What kind of data-sets do you think anyone of just have "lying around"?

 

[ThunderD]

I really don't have the time or means to do this but what percentage of Canadian players today were born in Quebec? I think one would find the % is roughly the same but the % of Canadian players in the NHL is down as more players from the US and Europe are playing.

20 years ago you could've easily put a Quebec team in the Olympics. Who exactly would you put on a Quebec team for the World Cup? They would get beat pretty bad IMO.

 

[MXD]

Quebec and the other provinces that make up the Quebec Junior League are areas that actually have a decline in population. Fewer young adults (potential parents) as they leave for better jobs in other parts of Canada.
Former NHL stars...Pat Lafontaine and Jeremy Roenick play in the Quebec. Can't think of any high profile Americans that played in the Quebec League..Ontario and Western Leagues yes. The "French" education hurts the influx of English speaking students who might have played in the Quebec league.

Actually hockey registration is down in Canada. Expensive, dangerous, and more options might hockey less appealing. And new immigrants don't have hockey to their blood. Even if the newcomers watch it, talk about it, they might direct their children to play another sport.

A generation or more ago, the arena was big gathering spot to small town communities. After school, children would often be at the arena, "supervised" by older children. Could you see that happening now?
The arena wouldn't be open (only to paying patrons) and to do parents allow their kids to mingle the way they used to?

We might be seeing a change in the US too regarding football. There might be fewer teenagers playing organized tackle football due to a injury and liability issues. The young folks just aren't participating at the same numbers as previous generations.

That was different in Roenick/Lafontaine area I think. Long story short, each league can only pick out of a certain territory, roughly corresponding to the east/west delimitation of respective leagues. The Q got shafted big time by this. Roenick would play in Quebec under these rules, because he's Mass.-born. Lafontaine would fall in the WHL territory. The French factor has nothing to do with this. Let's just say that those boundaries need to be redrawn ASAP, because that system is seriously rigged against Quebec in general.

And you can get English education without a problem in quite a few cities in the Q and in whole of the Atlantic.

 

[Cacciaguida]

Could a Nords return see a Renaissance in Quebec hockey?

Or would it just lead to a slight participation rate bump?

 

[sipowicz]

Sounds like a ripe environment for the NHL to "grow the game"!

This is rich, while the NHL continues to grow the game in new markets youth hockey participation in established markets is beginning to decline, Quebec, Minnesota.....

 

[Fenway]

This is rich, while the NHL continues to grow the game in new markets youth hockey participation in established markets is beginning to decline, Quebec, Minnesota.....

Massachusetts as well.

High school hockey was huge around the Boston area since the end of WWII but in the last 15 years many school districts have dropped the sport over costs.

Now high school hockey is played mainly in affluent suburbs or Catholic schools. The killer is insurance.

http://www.espn.com/blog/boston/high-school/post/_/id/40065/espn-boston-miaa-boys-hockey-top-25-poll

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

I keep saying this the NHL is killing it's golden goose. The NHl needs to make sure to do what it can to keep Canada as attached to the game as possible. QC was great opportunity for that but no keep on focusing on the Southern US.

Canada is changing. The TV ratings this spring should have been a wake up call for the arrogant American leadership, but I bet they learned nothing.

las vegas is//was one single individual, so rich, that i doubt he even noticed the 500 million, he just wanted it, and now he has it

that is vastly different than quebecor, who, while i am sure they could have found 500 million us (~$650 million canadian btw), is a publicly traded company, that needs to answer to shareholders

not the same thing at all

 

[ThunderD]

Massachusetts as well.

High school hockey was huge around the Boston area since the end of WWII but in the last 15 years many school districts have dropped the sport over costs.

Now high school hockey is played mainly in affluent suburbs or Catholic schools. The killer is insurance.

http://www.espn.com/blog/boston/high-school/post/_/id/40065/espn-boston-miaa-boys-hockey-top-25-poll

On another thread about hockey growing in the US it was said Massachusetts is still growing the game. If I put these two quotes together maybe it just means it's moving out of the city and into the suburbs. But overall more kids are playing in the state, just not in the city of Boston.

For what it's worth, rinks are still sprouting up here in Massachusetts. The New England Sports Center in Marlborough, Mass., currently a six-rink facility, is adding two more sheets of ice. I was happy to take a spin on Saturday at the Bruins' new practice facility in the Brighton section of Boston.

http://digital.hockeyjournal.com/nxtbooks/seamans/nehj_201609/?startid=cover1#/54

https://www.nhl.com/bruins/video/warrior-ice-arena-community-day/t-277437088/c-44653803

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/r...-the-bruins-new-practice-faciltiy-at.html#g11

 

[a587b]

I really don't have the time or means to do this but what percentage of Canadian players today were born in Quebec? I think one would find the % is roughly the same but the % of Canadian players in the NHL is down as more players from the US and Europe are playing.

According to QuantHockey about 11% (53/487) of Canadian-born NHL players who were considered "active" last season were born in Quebec. The all-time percentage is almost 16%. (Quebec's current share of the Canadian population is 23%.) Here you can see the comparison by province; the tables also include points scored as well as games played.

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/province-totals/active-nhl-players-career-stats.html

Right around 50% of NHLers are Canadian; here are the nationality percentages from last season and a few previous seasons.

http://www.tsn.ca/canadians-do-not-make-up-the-majority-of-nhl-players-this-season-1.380861

 

[Wolf357]

Sport in general is changing..while surfing for a HD NFL game last night I came across a French broadcast of the New England/Cleveland game. I'm curious how popular the NFL is in Quebec?

 

[Fenway]

Sport in general is changing..while surfing for a HD NFL game last night I came across a French broadcast of the New England/Cleveland game. I'm curious how popular the NFL is in Quebec?

The Patriots are extremely popular in Montreal as games are seen from Vermont TV.

 

[joelef]

again it comes down to changing demographics and hockey at all levels doing nothing about trying to reach those demographics.

 

[Hot Water Bottle]

In my experience some younger Canadians can be sensitive/embarrassed about embodying old-time Canadian stereotypes (including hockey), and think it's cooler to be into American stuff such as football. Maybe all the tacky, hockey-related silliness in Canadian culture does more harm than good in some ways.

 

[Shawa666]

Quebec and the other provinces that make up the Quebec Junior League are areas that actually have a decline in population. Fewer young adults (potential parents) as they leave for better jobs in other parts of Canada.
Former NHL stars...Pat Lafontaine and Jeremy Roenick play in the Quebec. Can't think of any high profile Americans that played in the Quebec League..Ontario and Western Leagues yes. The "French" education hurts the influx of English speaking students who might have played in the Quebec league.

Actually hockey registration is down in Canada. Expensive, dangerous, and more options might hockey less appealing. And new immigrants don't have hockey to their blood. Even if the newcomers watch it, talk about it, they might direct their children to play another sport.

A generation or more ago, the arena was big gathering spot to small town communities. After school, children would often be at the arena, "supervised" by older children. Could you see that happening now?
The arena wouldn't be open (only to paying patrons) and to do parents allow their kids to mingle the way they used to?

We might be seeing a change in the US too regarding football. There might be fewer teenagers playing organized tackle football due to a injury and liability issues. The young folks just aren't participating at the same numbers as previous generations.

The Q's american recruitment territory is New England. That's it. There's enough midget and Junior hockey teams in New England to ensure a talented kid will get enough ice time to develop. And they all dream of getting in the NCAA, as 30 to 40% of NCAA's D1 teams are in New England. They don't need the Q.

 

[Jazz]

I keep saying this the NHL is killing it's golden goose. The NHl needs to make sure to do what it can to keep Canada as attached to the game as possible. QC was great opportunity for that but no keep on focusing on the Southern US.

Canada is changing. The TV ratings this spring should have been a wake up call for the arrogant American leadership, but I bet they learned nothing.

Shutting out TSN was a mistake in that they (TSN) now has a vested interest in increasing the cultural relevancy of the NBA and other all-American sports (NFL, College football/basketball) in Canada for 12 years, that's half a generation.