The Decline Of Hockey In Quebec

[sawchuk1971]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/sports/hockey/quebec-now-yields-few-top-prospects.html?_r=0

The province known for grooming many of hockey’s most charismatic stars has hit something of a developmental rut over the last two decades. Gone are the days of dominant French Canadian stars like Maurice Richard, Jean Beliveau, Gilbert Perreault, Guy Lafleur, Mario Lemieux, Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur.

That may have never been more evident than at the N.H.L. draft in June, when 14 players from the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League were selected, by far the lowest total since 2004. Of those 14 players, only eight were born in the province.

In 2014-15, Quebec had 100,599 registered hockey players, according to Hockey Canada. That is a marginal increase from the previous year, and it accounted for 15.7 percent of Canada’s registered hockey players.

“Back when I was a kid, everybody played hockey,†said the former N.H.L. goaltender Jocelyn Thibault. “If you had a son, he would play hockey, which is not necessarily true anymore. There are so many things to do that we can’t take for granted that kids are just going to play hockey.â€

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Living in Quebec, I can tell you that hockey is still as popular as it ever was, it hasn't lost its religion status. The thing is, many people are picking up other sports on the side. I'd say the second most popular sport behind hockey is soccer. In fact, most immigrants come here and join or form soccer teams. Native Quebecers like to play soccer as well now in the summer. I was impressed by the number of soccer players in the Montreal area.

 

[viper0220]

There are couple of things that will help, the Montreal Canadiens, doing very good and making it deep in the playoffs and putting another NHL team in Quebec City, will help a lot.

 

[Oscar Acosta]

Sounds like a ripe environment for the NHL to "grow the game"!

 

[Stephen]

Montreal has really fallen behind in terms of pumping out talent this generation. I agree, maybe they need to reintroduce a second team to Quebec to stir up some more intensity.

 

[WaveRaven]

Sounds like a ripe environment for the NHL to "grow the game"!

I keep saying this the NHL is killing it's golden goose. The NHl needs to make sure to do what it can to keep Canada as attached to the game as possible. QC was great opportunity for that but no keep on focusing on the Southern US.

Canada is changing. The TV ratings this spring should have been a wake up call for the arrogant American leadership, but I bet they learned nothing.

 

[57special]

I wonder what the birth rate in Quebec is like? That might be part of the explanation. I do think in general that hockey is becoming less and less common, and more the specialized. In other words, less people appear to be playing, but the ones who do play more often.

Hockey was a game with a heavy blue collar participation in my father's day. In my day it was changing into a middle class game. Now it is a game of the upper middle and upper class. There are fewer of them, so it stands to reason that there is a decline in talent.

 

[tony d]

And exhibit A why Quebec City should get a expansion team. As others have said you'll increase interest in the game in a given hockey market if you have an NHL team there.

 

[powerstuck]

Living in Quebec, I can tell you that hockey is still as popular as it ever was, it hasn't lost its religion status. The thing is, many people are picking up other sports on the side. I'd say the second most popular sport behind hockey is soccer. In fact, most immigrants come here and join or form soccer teams. Native Quebecers like to play soccer as well now in the summer. I was impressed by the number of soccer players in the Montreal area.

Problem is, winter is not a problem anymore.

Just in Quebec City over the last 5 years there have been 4 or 5 brand new interior soccer stadiums erected and almost all were by public funds because that's what people want (Chaveau, Marc-Simoneau, St-Augustin, PEPS/Telus and one I may have lost track of).

Thing is, hockey costs about 200-250$ for basic equipment, then about 500-600$ per season for inscription.

Soccer costs about 100$ in equipment (and in there you get quite a good quality shoes at 80$) and about 150$ in inscription.

Plus, you can now play soccer year round because of the above stadiums. Really, choice is easy for many families who have a choice of either spending a small fortune or a reasonable price to keep their kids active.

 

[Montrealer]

I never learned how to skate (!!)

My six year-old wanted to play hockey last year. Since I had never taught him skating, we signed him up to lessons as a five year-old to learn how to skate. We told him if he stuck with that and learned, we'd try hockey.

After turning six in June, we signed him up for a week of hockey camp. That meant getting him full kit. There was a promotion that a second week was half price, so after he enjoyed the first week we gave him another. Based on that we signed him up for a season at MAHG 2 (it's not really competitive, just basics training) locally.

So far in a bit over a year we've paid out... probably around $800-900 or so. Not cheap, not super expensive, but as he grows he'll need equipment. The season inscription fee itself wasn't horrible (around $250 IIRC, plus another $100 for extra stuff like three tournaments and the holiday party).

He enjoys it and while he's not in the best in the group he's in he definitely tries his best and is showing progression. I think he'll stick with it for a while. We're definitely keeping it loose, I don't care about trying to make him a professional, this is good for learning teamwork and playing sports.

It has been eye opening though, some parents already seem like lunatics yelling at their six year-olds to score (we're not keeping count, we don't even have teams yet!), skate hard, etc. Like, wtf, just enjoy your kid enjoying the sport. That's a turn off and I'll have a hard time keeping my cool if some idiot father starts yelling after my kid becuase of a turnover in a couple of years. Luckily the local league has a policy we all had to sign that if you yell at kids negatively/boo you're thrown out of the session/game, so that helps.

All this to say that I feel lucky we can spend the money to let him pursue this.. his four-year old brother just started skating. I'm trying to figure out how we'll afford it if we have them and my 19 month old daughter all playing hockey six years from now, that's what worries me.

 

[Slashers98]

My daughters (5 and 8) will not play hockey as they don't like it enough, but instead, they play dek hockey which costs only $200 for the season and $100 for the equipment.

There is also a summer season which allows them to play all year long and outside in the sun! It's more and more popular in the province, especially among adults with the Burrows Classic and all the tournaments and new centers.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Was going to point out the obvious, but it's already been pointed out.

Hockey is a rich kids sport, and Quebec is a very poor province.

 

[LPHabsFan]

The decline of hockey in Quebec has nothing to with the Habs or lack of Nordiques or interest in the game.

It has to do with the fact that Hockey Quebec as a whole has their heads shoved so far.....you can finish that sentence.

It has to do with the fact that they changed a number of years ago the way they do the age classifications whereby now you can have kids at the start of the year being 8 years old grade 3 in Atom playing against kids 2 years older in grade 5.

It has to do with the fact that there are too many associations who are not doing what they need to do at the very young level (ages 5 - 8) to develop the kids properly.

It has to do with the fact that between the local associations, sports etudes/private school programs/private travelling teams, and the new SIL the top players aren't necessarily competing against all of the top players which hinders development.

And those are just a few of the reasons.....

 

[Number 57]

Hockey Quebec has changed it's structure recently to allow for better development of elite players. We should be able to evaluate the benefits of those changes in a couple of years. Already, there are 3-4 elite prospects in Midget that will make their QMJHL debut next year and everyone in the province is very excited for it. Then, there is also Joe Veleno. For the 2017 NHL draft, there is Maxime Comtois. In recent years, there has been Jonathan Drouin and Jonathan Huberdeau.

The 3 problems in my opinion are:

1) Cost.

2) Lots of other things to do, as others have mentionned. Soccer is a great alternative if the family can only afford 1 sport per kid.

3) Trying to win. I think up until recently minor coaches tried to win at all cost. Minor hockey should be about player development regardless of winning/losing. Teams should hold more practices and coaches should spent more time teaching techniques instead of teaching systems. They should focus on developing individual skills. They should also learn how to train off the ice the right way.

When was the last power forward to come out of the Q? Minor coaches, wanting to win, will usually pick the smaller/faster players because they are better at scoring goals. If they spent more time developing bigger players, even if they seem clumsy/slow at first, perhaps we would see more players drafted out of the QMJHL by the NHL. Like it or not, size plays a big part in making the NHL; very few David Desharnais's make it.

 

[Burke the Legend]

^^this

Hockey is under pressure all over Canada due to cost and other sports, particularly Quebec where cost sensitivities are even more of an issue, but the point is that participation is still high enough that question of why the # of elite players making the NHL draft is so low can't just be explained away by macro problems. This is on Hockey Quebec to explain because similar jurisdictions like Nordic nations have gone through similar issues and made reforms that have improved the situation for the development of elites.

 

[Fenway]

I wonder what the birth rate in Quebec is like? That might be part of the explanation. I do think in general that hockey is becoming less and less common, and more the specialized. In other words, less people appear to be playing, but the ones who do play more often.

Hockey was a game with a heavy blue collar participation in my father's day. In my day it was changing into a middle class game. Now it is a game of the upper middle and upper class. There are fewer of them, so it stands to reason that there is a decline in talent.

I think that could be a part of the equation. The Catholic Church no longer dominates French Canada they way it did especially in rural Quebec and I think the cost of playing the game is a factor as well.

The Quebec that made this beloved story no longer exists



The lack of Quebec players playing NCAA hockey might be a factor as well.

 

[orcatown]

What would a Team Quebec look like right ow Got a feeling they would be killed by a Team Ontario.

 

[NoMessi]

What would a Team Quebec look like right ow Got a feeling they would be killed by a Team Ontario.

To be fair, Team Ontario just won World Cup almost by themselves.

 

[ramdm5]

I never learned how to skate (!!)

My six year-old wanted to play hockey last year. Since I had never taught him skating, we signed him up to lessons as a five year-old to learn how to skate. We told him if he stuck with that and learned, we'd try hockey.

After turning six in June, we signed him up for a week of hockey camp. That meant getting him full kit. There was a promotion that a second week was half price, so after he enjoyed the first week we gave him another. Based on that we signed him up for a season at MAHG 2 (it's not really competitive, just basics training) locally.

So far in a bit over a year we've paid out... probably around $800-900 or so. Not cheap, not super expensive, but as he grows he'll need equipment. The season inscription fee itself wasn't horrible (around $250 IIRC, plus another $100 for extra stuff like three tournaments and the holiday party).

He enjoys it and while he's not in the best in the group he's in he definitely tries his best and is showing progression. I think he'll stick with it for a while. We're definitely keeping it loose, I don't care about trying to make him a professional, this is good for learning teamwork and playing sports.

It has been eye opening though, some parents already seem like lunatics yelling at their six year-olds to score (we're not keeping count, we don't even have teams yet!), skate hard, etc. Like, wtf, just enjoy your kid enjoying the sport. That's a turn off and I'll have a hard time keeping my cool if some idiot father starts yelling after my kid becuase of a turnover in a couple of years. Luckily the local league has a policy we all had to sign that if you yell at kids negatively/boo you're thrown out of the session/game, so that helps.

All this to say that I feel lucky we can spend the money to let him pursue this.. his four-year old brother just started skating. I'm trying to figure out how we'll afford it if we have them and my 19 month old daughter all playing hockey six years from now, that's what worries me.

Here in Sweden the Swedish football association stopped keeping tables for leagues under 13 years. Not because it was a problem for the kids but the parents had begun to be so nasty towards the children and especially the referees (usually being teenagers). My kid is only 1 year but in a way I'm not looking 100 % forward to sports since I'll probably be really bloody annoyed by some parents.
I mean, just push your kid in a positive way and if they want to be pushed.

 

[MXD]

I think that could be a part of the equation. The Catholic Church no longer dominates French Canada they way it did especially in rural Quebec and I think the cost of playing the game is a factor as well.

The Quebec that made this beloved story no longer exists



The lack of Quebec players playing NCAA hockey might be a factor as well.

A few interesting things here.
The Church indeed no longer dominates Quebec, and lost its hold on, amongst other things, education.

Not that Priests and Friars are necessarily good coaches, but at least school afforded the basic gear + rink. Rural households sent their kids to boarding schools, all or most of them operated by the Church in some capacity. Nowadays the rural population is significantly less numerous and boarding schools... well, didn't disappear, but aren't boarding schools anymore, because there's more schools, not to mention no household of 14 children anymore.


As for the NCAA... Well, there's kindof a big barrier. It might not be an issue for the more "gifted" students, but you know as well as me that NCAA athletes aren't all a bunch of Einsteins. Our non-Einsteins are not only not Einstein, but also have very rudimentary English skills (American non-Einsteins speak only Murican, but that's a language used on the campuses)

What would a Team Quebec look like right ow Got a feeling they would be killed by a Team Ontario.

Well... They wouldn't get killed. They'd probably lose, but wouldn't get killed.

 

[MXD]

When was the last power forward to come out of the Q? Minor coaches, wanting to win, will usually pick the smaller/faster players because they are better at scoring goals. If they spent more time developing bigger players, even if they seem clumsy/slow at first, perhaps we would see more players drafted out of the QMJHL by the NHL. Like it or not, size plays a big part in making the NHL; very few David Desharnais's make it.

... And when have a skilled big player, we make sure to antagonize him as much as possible.

http://www.exruefrontenac.com/mleclerc/24124-couturier-lhjmq-leclerc-chronique

(in French only)

 

[gelu88]

Beyond what people have said about growth of other sports and the cost of hockey, a wider issue is the place of sports in general.

You can see this if you look at the overall participation numbers. While there is some shift between sports there is also the fact that overall less kids play sports than they used to.

For younger kids sports is primary a form of play and "daycare" and parents are diversifying into other things instead, not to mention the use of social media and internet as a replacement.

Oh and the concussion issue does not help.

 

[Fenway]

I actually attended a 'prep school' in Rhode Island as a 'boarder' to play hockey and the school was owned by a religious order with Quebec roots. The school's hook was their own arena.

I'm sure there are others but off the top of my head the only French superstar that came out of NCAA was Martin St. Louis who played for Vermont.

Pierre McGuire has said a major factor in moving his family from Montreal to Connecticut was there were more hockey opportunities for his sons in the wealthy Connecticut burbs of New York City.

A few interesting things here.
The Church indeed no longer dominates Quebec, and lost its hold on, amongst other things, education.

Not that Priests and Friars are necessarily good coaches, but at least school afforded the basic gear + rink. Rural households sent their kids to boarding schools, all or most of them operated by the Church in some capacity. Nowadays the rural population is significantly less numerous and boarding schools... well, didn't disappear, but aren't boarding schools anymore, because there's more schools, not to mention no household of 14 children anymore.


As for the NCAA... Well, there's kindof a big barrier. It might not be an issue for the more "gifted" students, but you know as well as me that NCAA athletes aren't all a bunch of Einsteins. Our non-Einsteins are not only not Einstein, but also have very rudimentary English skills (American non-Einsteins speak only Murican, but that's a language used on the campuses)



Well... They wouldn't get killed. They'd probably lose, but wouldn't get killed.

 

[Killion]

I actually attended a 'prep school' in Rhode Island as a 'boarder' to play hockey and the school was owned by a religious order with Quebec roots. The school's hook was their own arena.

Yes, there are over 60 prep-schools in New England alone offering hockey; average tuition between $30,000 ~ $40,000 per annum. Not a whole lot of people have that kind of money. Look at the US players drafted going way back, Leetch, Modano etc, these were all kids from upper-middle class backgrounds. Since the 90's, same with Canadian players. The sport is out of reach, particularly at the advanced / elite levels. Insanely expensive.

 

[MXD]

I actually attended a 'prep school' in Rhode Island as a 'boarder' to play hockey and the school was owned by a religious order with Quebec roots. The school's hook was their own arena.

I'm sure there are others but off the top of my head the only French superstar that came out of NCAA was Martin St. Louis who played for Vermont.

Pierre McGuire has said a major factor in moving his family from Montreal to Connecticut was there were more hockey opportunities for his sons in the wealthy Connecticut burbs of New York City.

St. Louis is indeed the best French player from the NCAA. Another one I can think of is Joe Juneau (Renssaeler). But then again, Joe Juneau is more intelligent than 98% of the population, and that's a conservative estimate. Language wasn't an issue for him, but it can be for lots of teens.

Differences in school system has to be considered as well. Those differences means there cannot be a viable University league in the CIS, due to ages of admission.