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The "dawg" factor

jalapenoWithAnH

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Mar 25, 2025
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If you look at 2022 Colorado team or 2024 Florida team or 2010-2015 Blackhawks it seems quite clear that besides point production succesfull teams also need players who lead by example when it comes to attitude. We can call it the "dawg" -factor referencing to Kadri's recent x post: "Number one rule: you always keep the dawgs". In short I think it's just the will to be dominant in all parts of the game.

Toronto imo has been a good example of team with tons of skill but lack of dawg mentality. Florida on the other hand has Tkachuk, Bennet, Marchand and Ekblad who not only produce points but also who reek confidence and aggression in other parts of the game besides point prodution.

Colorado 2022 had Kadri, MacKinnon and Landeskog as these fiercely competetive personalities. It makes gentleman elite players like Rantanen's job so much easier.

Going towards summer and the UFA market which available players are like this that teams should focus on getting for their team? Bennet yes but who else?
 
The Pens had similar. Guys like Hornqvist, Kunitz, Talbot, etc. were big parts of the success of the Penguins' Cup teams because they added that element even when not scoring.

Of course, it also helped that the Pens' stars were actually gritty as well, unlike Toronto's powder puff quartet. Opposing fans can complain about Sid and Geno being dirty at times, but the bottom line is both guys would get dirty if need be and weren't afraid to bite back, which is something Toronto's stars seem to refuse to do.
 
The Pens had similar. Guys like Hornqvist, Kunitz, Talbot, etc. were big parts of the success of the Penguins' Cup teams because they added that element even when not scoring.

Of course, it also helped that the Pens' stars were actually gritty as well, unlike Toronto's powder puff quartet. Opposing fans can complain about Sid and Geno being dirty at times, but the bottom line is both guys would get dirty if need be and weren't afraid to bite back, which is something Toronto's stars seem to refuse to do.

Yeah exactly. Players need to grow some teeth and they need to earn the respect of opponent.

And Crosby is actually one of those rare players who can lead by example both in points and in attitude. The fact that he has won so much is one piece of evidence for this but also the way people talk about him. I remember hearing that he has this effect on other players where they want to try their best. I think it was related to his work ethic but also the way he talks to other players. Seems like he is a good leader.

Crosby also doesn't back down from a physical challenge. Has dropped gloves many times and defends his teammates. Yet during all of their cup runs he was their top 2 scorer in the playoffs.

I would say Sidney has the dawg-factor which is rare for generational level type of players. Gretzky and McDavid have never been like that. They have lead in points mainly and because they score so much it's enough.

Problem comes when superstar players start underperfoming points-wise in the playoffs and then they basically become invisible because they dont have that "dawg" mentality to compensate the lack of scoring (Toronto).
 
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I am seeing it in oilers too this year. Players like Kane bring a lot of confidence and grit that was sorely missed last year. Even if they aren't producing to their maximum on the score sheet, they bring a lot extra. As an example Tkachuk isn't really scoring at the rate he should be (due to injuries) but he still provides a lot of grit. I know people like to say we are in a skill era (and for the most part we are), but it isn't a zero-sum game; you need both to make it. Very rarely does a soft team make it far.
 
The Pens had similar. Guys like Hornqvist, Kunitz, Talbot, etc. were big parts of the success of the Penguins' Cup teams because they added that element even when not scoring.

Of course, it also helped that the Pens' stars were actually gritty as well, unlike Toronto's powder puff quartet. Opposing fans can complain about Sid and Geno being dirty at times, but the bottom line is both guys would get dirty if need be and weren't afraid to bite back, which is something Toronto's stars seem to refuse to do.
Hornqvist was huge for the panthers when he got here in terms of culture
 
If you look at 2022 Colorado team or 2024 Florida team or 2010-2015 Blackhawks it seems quite clear that besides point production succesfull teams also need players who lead by example when it comes to attitude. We can call it the "dawg" -factor referencing to Kadri's recent x post: "Number one rule: you always keep the dawgs". In short I think it's just the will to be dominant in all parts of the game.

Toronto imo has been a good example of team with tons of skill but lack of dawg mentality. Florida on the other hand has Tkachuk, Bennet, Marchand and Ekblad who not only produce points but also who reek confidence and aggression in other parts of the game besides point prodution.

Colorado 2022 had Kadri, MacKinnon and Landeskog as these fiercely competetive personalities. It makes gentleman elite players like Rantanen's job so much easier.

Going towards summer and the UFA market which available players are like this that teams should focus on getting for their team? Bennet yes but who else?
In 2022 Rantanen's highest stat wasn't goals or assists or points. It was sticks he broke chasing guys around cross checking them. And he did it for no good reason but the love of violence.

Rantanen is a sublime player. Skillset unmatched by few in the game today. But the man is no gentleman. He's got a competitive fire and willingness to win much higher than MacGinnon.
 
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If you look at 2022 Colorado team or 2024 Florida team or 2010-2015 Blackhawks it seems quite clear that besides point production succesfull teams also need players who lead by example when it comes to attitude. We can call it the "dawg" -factor referencing to Kadri's recent x post: "Number one rule: you always keep the dawgs". In short I think it's just the will to be dominant in all parts of the game.

Toronto imo has been a good example of team with tons of skill but lack of dawg mentality. Florida on the other hand has Tkachuk, Bennet, Marchand and Ekblad who not only produce points but also who reek confidence and aggression in other parts of the game besides point prodution.

Colorado 2022 had Kadri, MacKinnon and Landeskog as these fiercely competetive personalities. It makes gentleman elite players like Rantanen's job so much easier.

Going towards summer and the UFA market which available players are like this that teams should focus on getting for their team? Bennet yes but who else?
Anyone that's played sports at any highly competitive level knows you need more than skill to win ships. It's a cutthroat, balls to the wall mentality that is rarely taught/acquired. Like grace, either you have it or you don't. :laugh:

This doesn't mean a guy needs to be throwing hits constantly or cheap shotting opponents. It also doesn't mean every player needs to have that "dawg" in them. But you need a good mix of dawgs to fuel/elevate the players around them, including much more skilled teammates.

People laugh and mock the needing to "hate to lose" or hate losing more than you love winning narrative....but that's a large part of what it is. Need guys with a crazy compete level that can elevate their play in big games (like playoffs), be selfless, and energize the guys around them.
 
Yeah exactly. Players need to grow some teeth and they need to earn the respect of opponent.

And Crosby is actually one of those rare players who can lead by example both in points and in attitude. The fact that he has won so much is one piece of evidence for this but also the way people talk about him. I remember hearing that he has this effect on other players where they want to try their best. I think it was related to his work ethic but also the way he talks to other players. Seems like he is a good leader.

Crosby also doesn't back down from a physical challenge. Has dropped gloves many times and defends his teammates. Yet during all of their cup runs he was their top 2 scorer in the playoffs.

I would say Sidney has the dawg-factor which is rare for generational level type of players. Gretzky and McDavid have never been like that. They have lead in points mainly and because they score so much it's enough.

Problem comes when superstar players start underperfoming points-wise in the playoffs and then they basically become invisible because they dont have that "dawg" mentality to compensate the lack of scoring (Toronto).
Crosby never led by example in points. When I watch him, he seems pretty timid and shy, a bit robotic, and I don’t want to take anything away from him, but him winning “everything” is a result of teammates stepping up unrelated to him. Attributing the great performance of those players to Crosby’s “Air” or “It” factor sounds very disrespectful to the talent and ability of those players to me. He wasn’t the leader of Canada 2010, and the guys still stepped up throughout the tournament and made it to the overtime of the final, to set up Crosby. You try your best to win the cup for yourself, the fans and your teammates, then some people say that you tried hard and played well because of the “it” factor of some guy to boost his legacy. Doesn’t sit well.
 
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Crosby never led by example in points. When I watch him, he seems pretty timid and shy, a bit robotic, and I don’t want to take anything away from him, but him winning “everything” is a result of teammates stepping up unrelated to him. Attributing the great performance of those players to Crosby’s “Air” or “It” factor sounds very disrespectful to the talent and ability of those players to me. He wasn’t the leader of Canada 2010, and the guys still stepped up throughout the tournament and made it to the overtime of the final, to set up Crosby. You try your best to win the cup for yourself, the fans and your teammates, then some people say that you tried hard and played well because of some guy to boost his legacy. Doesn’t sit well.
Yeah, it seems like a bit of mythification in regard to his performances.

Crosby was not particularly good in the 2010 or 2014 Olympics, way below his usual standard in fact. He was lucky he got to score the overtime goal in 2010, because now that is what he gets remembered for, not his no-show in the final up to that point, or his complete absence after the group-stage in general. If Canada had lost that game, he would have been lambasted for years for disappearing when Canada needed him the most. And that didn't really change in 2014. He once again managed to score a goal in the final, but 3 points in 6 games, only one past the group stage, was extremely lackluster for him.

The "dawg-factor" also seemed to have zero impact between 2011 and 2015, were he and the Penguins regularly fell short of expectations, before the arrival of Sullivan and the changes that came with it gave Pittsburgh a huge boost. That's what is really important: the circumstances. It doesn't matter how good you are, if the circumstances aren't right, you won't win. Did Crosby somehow have "it" between 2008-10, then lose it, before regaining it for 2016 and 17? No, of course not. One, two or even three stars aren't what make a winner. It requires the entire team to commit and work as a unit. If you don't have that, you won't win. No matter how good your stars perform, or whether you have a bunch of "dawgs". Plenty of teams had those sort of players and still didn't achieve anything. Singling out the instances were such players were important, while ignoring all the times where they failed to achieve anything, is rather odd. Those type of players don't win anything unless everything else falls into place as well. "Dawgs" don't win you a Cup if your (other) stars disappear. They won't win you a Cup if the defense falters or special teams suck too much. They don't win you the Cup when your goalie isn't giving you the necessary performance either.

Crosby is one of the best ever, about as good as you can hope a hockey player to be, and he certainly delivered on plenty of occasions when it really mattered, which makes it redundant to mystify him in such a way by proclaiming there was something uniquely special about him when it mattered. He disappeared often enough under such circumstances. And sometimes, his team was still good enough to win anyway.

It also seems odd to randomly assign style and factors to players to fit the narrative. Like describing Rantanen as a "gentleman elite player", as if he was some sort of wuss who never showed spirit. These sort of declarations way after the fact make little sense at all.
 
Crosby never led by example in points.

This patently false. He is all time second in points for Pittsburgh during regular season only behind Lemieux and all time first in playoff points for Pittsburgh...like I said he also was top 2 in points during all their cup runs. That's leading in points.

When I watch him, he seems pretty timid and shy, a bit robotic, and I don’t want to take anything away from him, but him winning “everything” is a result of teammates stepping up unrelated to him.


You bring up shyness as he literally fights for his teammates. This video is missing the one from this season:



Attributing the great performance of those players to Crosby’s “Air” or “It” factor sounds very disrespectful to the talent and ability of those players to me. He wasn’t the leader of Canada 2010, and the guys still stepped up throughout the tournament and made it to the overtime of the final, to set up Crosby. You try your best to win the cup for yourself, the fans and your teammates, then some people say that you tried hard and played well because of some guy to boost his legacy. Doesn’t sit well.

Yeah sure buddy. Youngest captain ever to lead his team to Stanley Cup.

What you say is just not supported by what his teammates and people who have known him think of him:

While speaking highly of his leadership skills, the former general manager of the Penguins, Jim Rutherford, said, “There’s never been anyone like him, and there never will be. I’ve been around a while, and I’ve met a lot of people. I’ve never met anyone like him.
Ryan Pohling: “That’s what I noticed when the Penguins first traded for me. I get a text from Sid. And he’s chatting you up, making you feel so comfortable. And you’re like, ‘Sidney Crosby is talking to me.’ It just gets your attention because of who he is. But he just wants to make you feel welcome immediately. He’s different than anyone else.
.”Rutger McGroarty had a similar experience with Crosby. He shared, “It’s crazy. You’re barely in the NHL, and Sidney Crosby is chatting you up.”
Marc-Andre Fleury who was his former teammate recalled that “If you’re having a bad day or having a problem, he’ll take care of you. He’d talk in French to make me feel better.”
While speaking of what led to the team winning the Stanley Cups, Matt Cullen shared, “I think his drive to constantly improve his own game and his unmatched work ethic leaves teammates no choice but to follow.”

"If you’re a young guy, you’re an old guy, you’re a first-rounder, a seventh-rounder, a free agent - doesn’t matter who you are - when you come into this room, he introduces himself, gets your phone number, and makes sure you feel welcome, feel comfortable... anything you need, he's there to do it," longtime Penguins forward Bryan Rust said. "And I think that shows a lot about his character that, from day one, he’s kinda just assumed that you treat people like family when they come in this room.”
"Just how good of a person he is and how he makes you feel welcome... he treats you like every other guy," Pettersson said. "He treats everybody the same, and I think that goes a long way with the young guys and stuff like that. That sure helps you get settled and play your game because, ultimately, he wants to win."
He also stressed Crosby's uncanny ability to empower others to speak up.
"He’s the ultimate competitor. He’s really a team-first guy, and he wants to make sure that everybody goes around the same way and feels comfortable here in the locker room to say what’s needed, if needed," Pettersson added.
"He reached out to me," said Philip Tomasino, 23, who was acquired from the Nashville Predators on Nov. 25 this season. "He was one of the first guys that reached out to me when I got traded here, so that obviously speaks a lot. I’ve worked with him after practice a couple of times, and obviously, just in the room... when he speaks, everyone listens."
"He just has such a presence, and he’s always locked in," defenseman Ryan Shea said. "He has this perfect balance of being locked in but also being a team guy, joking around, so you don’t feel intimidated around him. But, he brings the best out of you every time you step out on the ice."
Shea continued: "I think, over the years, he’s mastered that balance, and that’s why people talk so highly of him. Coaching staff, media, just everyone talks so highly of him. I’ve never seen a bad thing about him."
"He’s always been that guy, honestly," Letang said. "He brings the best out of everybody with his work ethic, whether it’s in practice or games. He’s a guy that studies the game a lot, and he likes to talk to guys and see what they should see on different plays and what type of forecheck and any different situation. He really talks to everybody, making sure everybody’s on the same page and easy to read.”
Mike Sullivan: "And there’s no better example of how to carry yourself than Sid. He’s the standard bearer when it comes to the process of excellence that has been established here in Pittsburgh, and I think players like Rusty can’t help but improve and get better because of that."

So basically your claims are dishonest and flat out wrong. Crosby has been "the guy" for many players and clearly the guy who has been an integral part of their Cup runs.
 
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Crosby is one of the best ever, about as good as you can hope a hockey player to be, and he certainly delivered on plenty of occasions when it really mattered, which makes it redundant to mystify him in such a way by proclaiming there was something uniquely special about him when it mattered. He disappeared often enough under such circumstances. And sometimes, his team was still good enough to win anyway.
Well you are wrong. Check out my above comment where I reference other players that have played with Sid. Basically everyone says he is special. According to people who know him he brings the best out of players, makes them feel part of the team, cares for his teammates in a special way and has a certain presence. Maybe time to delete your comment.
 
I would imagine that for each of the examples that the OP is mentioning - SC winners who had that "dawg" factor - there is a counterexample of teams and players who had plenty of dawg... but just weren't good enough or lucky enough. Yes, self-confidence is a thing, but it's not such a huge thing as we make it in our myths of hockey heroes.
 
I would imagine that for each of the examples that the OP is mentioning - SC winners who had that "dawg" factor - there is a counterexample of teams and players who had plenty of dawg... but just weren't good enough or lucky enough. Yes, self-confidence is a thing, but it's not such a huge thing as we make it in our myths of hockey heroes.
Toronto fan?
 
This patently false. He is all time second in points for Pittsburgh during regular season only behind Lemieux and all time first in playoff points for Pittsburgh...like I said he also was top 2 in points during all their cup runs. That's leading in points.




You bring up shyness as he literally fights for his teammates. This video is missing the one from this season:





Yeah sure buddy. Youngest captain ever to lead his team to Stanley Cup.

What you say is just not supported by what his teammates and people who have known him think of him:
















So basically your claims are dishonest and flat out wrong. Crosby has been "the guy" for many players and clearly the guy who has been an integral part of their Cup runs.

You provided many valid examples, so thank you for that. Many of these guys have a vested interest in avoiding burning bridges they built, so they obviously won’t mention negative details. Still, based on what you provided Crosby seems very approachable and a good locker room presence. I’m fine with people saying his leadership gave his teams an extra edge, but alluding to his presence or “it” being the reason for his teammate elite play, say Murray playing lights out goaltending in 2016 & 2017, or Kessel’s line producing so well in 2016 is going too far.

One thing to point out is that showing dawg by fighting would be a net negative for Gretzky and McDavid’s teams, due to them subsequently going to the box.
 
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We can call it the "dawg" -factor referencing to Kadri's recent x post: "Number one rule: you always keep the dawgs".
The irony of Kadri's tweet is that he's had exactly one great playoff in his career, and it was coincidentally right before he was due a new contract.
 

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