The Coaching Thread Part II // Carlyle GIVEN TWO YEAR EXTENSION.. WHAT THE ****
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garce
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Diatomic
Mitch Matthewlander
Carlyle staying? May aswell pencil in McDavid for our 2016 opening night roster.
But forreal, If Carlyle stays I may be excited because were going to suck and suck very badly, and get a good pick. Thats the only positive.
But forreal, If Carlyle stays I may be excited because were going to suck and suck very badly, and get a good pick. Thats the only positive.
I think this roster is what needs to change, not necessarily the coaching staff. I mean they didn't really make the team improve in areas, but its hard to fathom they didn't try.
Even Carlyle seemed like he is willing to change his antics next year in dealing with the team and that he was maybe a bit too patient when he maybe shouldn't have been.
The truth is, that Nonis gutted the team and brought in Clarkson who absolutely is a black hole on Nonis' resume right now.
Leiweke hinted that hard decisions are on the horizon and if its not the coach, then the only hard decision is how we deal with Phaneuf. I don't think he's a good captain at all. 3 epic collapses under his leadership. Maybe that's what gets done.
Even Carlyle seemed like he is willing to change his antics next year in dealing with the team and that he was maybe a bit too patient when he maybe shouldn't have been.
The truth is, that Nonis gutted the team and brought in Clarkson who absolutely is a black hole on Nonis' resume right now.
Leiweke hinted that hard decisions are on the horizon and if its not the coach, then the only hard decision is how we deal with Phaneuf. I don't think he's a good captain at all. 3 epic collapses under his leadership. Maybe that's what gets done.
Dreakmur
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It has been said before, but firing the coach sends the message to the players that this was not their fault, which is not something that this group needs to hear. The core needs to be shaken up, not entrenched.
It's hard to not blame the coach when you can barley name a positive thing he did this season. The players deserve a **** ton of blame, but seriously, RC was awful this season. Everything from his roster decisions (both years), his treatment of players, his system and his ability to adjust (or severe lack of it) this year were awful. His micromanagement style is over-done and seriously, the proof is in the pudding. Look at the Ducks, how they look like a new team with the exact same roster, only thing that changed is the over the hill coach (and I guess Bobby Ryan's departure).
This guy needs to go, seriously, what does management do if the team struggles right off the bat? All of the coaching options will be exhausted and we'll be further in no-mans land.
hotpaws
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- Nov 21, 2009
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Firing the coach and bringing back the same core that dived off the cliff under two coach's does send the wrong message.
I'd fire entire coaching staff and trade our captain as well as Lupul , this would send a message that everyone's accountable .
I'm not saying you don't make roster changes as well, but the coaching and coach/player relationships are clearly broken. Lupul/Franson should be goners for sure, Dion can be shopped but you don't trade him just to send a message if the return isn't right. Regardless of what people think around here, Dion has real value, to us and other teams.
FlareKnight
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So instead we send a message to the coaching staff that they did a wonderful job? Certainly the core needs to be shaken up, but if we come back with the same coaching staff I'm getting my early seat for the tank.
Purity*
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- Jan 29, 2010
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You are defending the same dinosaur head who was planning on having Gardiner benched in the playoffs in favor of his golden boy Mike Kostka who got injured. Guess who was our best player in that series?
He also plays Jay McClement for 20 minutes a night over Kadri even when we are down by a goal in the third. Oh yeah, and a few times this season, he has given Troy Bodie more ice time than Phil Kessel.
If Carlyle is back next season, we have a serious shot at McDavid.
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
Dreakmur
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There's lots of blame to go around. Most belongs to Dave Nonis. I agree that Randy Carlyle's style of coaching is not a good fit to the current roster. That's a poor decision by management.
The question is what direction should we go: pick the coach for the roster or change the roster to fit the coach?
The question is what direction should we go: pick the coach for the roster or change the roster to fit the coach?
Instead of just making roster changes and keeping this coach, I REALLY really hope that they instead make changes to both roster and staff.
Carlyle had his team play the way he felt gave them their best chance at winning with the players available. I have no doubt that the man knows his hockey, and I'm convinced the failure in Toronto is player driven rather than coach driven. Carlyle is more than capable of employing a successful strategy in today's NHL, but the stark reality this season hammered home is that strategy means nothing if the players don't want it more than their opponents. You could have Scotty Bowman cooking up the most brilliant plan imaginable and I firmly believe this team would still lose because of their lack of leadership on the ice and the unwillingness of these players to do what it takes. Maybe Randy Carlyl's system had flaws, but it was what he felt he needed to do in order to win some games. Oddly enough Ron Wilson adopted a similar approach with many of these same players, relying on the counterattack and generating offense off the rush, likely because they cannot play any other way. They don't have the players to play a 200 foot game, these guys want to score goals. They don't however want to win games. Maybe it's the coaches fault for not getting them to play a more sound system, or maybe two coaches in a row have been handcuffed by a squad of players who can't or worse, won't play any other way. I don't put that on Randy, and I doubt Shanny would either. Being a respectable man and a good person, I suspect Shanahan would have fired Carlyle already if he were going to do it, simply to give him a chance at other jobs that have opened up. If Shanny drags his feet, it's quite the dick move to fire him after the other coaching jobs are snapped up. I don't see Shanny making many dick moves if any, Carlyle likely isn't going anywhere. Get used to it now.
the message is to be sent to kessel and the other long term guys is that this collapse was squarely on them .....if u dont want to forecheck ,give your list of teams u wanna be traded to...even if mike babcock came here,hed want kessel to do more ,hed push him ,it really wasnt all coaching ,our best guys , our core group failed to execute or show any desire .....u tellin me that you tube video of kessel laughing at phaneuf for not scoring in that key game in detroit was a focussed player? in junior hed have got punched out ,
i hope randy stays ,because the core stinks here and shanny knows it ,i think the harder part for shanny is firing nonis ,he signed long term deals ,to players he saw for years ,he should know what he had in phaneuf and kessel and lupul .
This horrible news. Personally I think Shanahan Should Fire everyone. What is with the this bull**** fail each year, and then each person can say 'I didn't get to do it with my guy' So they fire one more. This whole management team has been around for all this **** and are a main part of this crap culture.
The coach is demonstrably horrible, if you seriously want to watch another year of collapse and leave the points open so the other team can shoot it all day long, then when we finally get it, dump it in so the other team can get it back again. These are coaching strategies. This is how Carlyle thinks the NHL game is played these days. Please find me one other successful 'collapse and dump' team in the NHL.
The players are at fault as well, they shouldn't be let off. Phaneuf should be traded, I think he's a better player than many give him credit for, but it's time for him to go. I don't think he's captain material and honestly, this team shouldn't have a captain right now, cause no one deserves it. There are other players that you could make an argument for changing as well.
And for the love of god, if Nonis trades Gardiner, or any of our other young skilled players for 'Carlyle' type players. I'm gonna lose it.
'Carlyle' type players SUCK. and Carlyle's teams have sucked. Seriously, he won a cup with 3 first-ballot HOF's on his team, a goalie having an incredible year. ever since that, his teams have been garbage and get instantly better once he leaves. Players he drives out of town get better once they leave. This 'Appeal to Authority' BS is annoying. I'll take the last 6 years of evidence that he has no idea what he's doing, over 1 year, 7 years ago.
End of rant.
The coach is demonstrably horrible, if you seriously want to watch another year of collapse and leave the points open so the other team can shoot it all day long, then when we finally get it, dump it in so the other team can get it back again. These are coaching strategies. This is how Carlyle thinks the NHL game is played these days. Please find me one other successful 'collapse and dump' team in the NHL.
The players are at fault as well, they shouldn't be let off. Phaneuf should be traded, I think he's a better player than many give him credit for, but it's time for him to go. I don't think he's captain material and honestly, this team shouldn't have a captain right now, cause no one deserves it. There are other players that you could make an argument for changing as well.
And for the love of god, if Nonis trades Gardiner, or any of our other young skilled players for 'Carlyle' type players. I'm gonna lose it.
'Carlyle' type players SUCK. and Carlyle's teams have sucked. Seriously, he won a cup with 3 first-ballot HOF's on his team, a goalie having an incredible year. ever since that, his teams have been garbage and get instantly better once he leaves. Players he drives out of town get better once they leave. This 'Appeal to Authority' BS is annoying. I'll take the last 6 years of evidence that he has no idea what he's doing, over 1 year, 7 years ago.
End of rant.
dubplatepressure
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I really agree with this. Carlyle can be fired but it really changes nothing with how much turnover needs to happen. If your best players don't do what you tell them to then as a coach you are handcuffed, plain and simple. Bringing in another one won't change that.
dubplatepressure
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ShaneFalco
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If it happens, I'll be very interested in hearing the spin they put on deciding to keep him
I personally don't know how you justify it. At all
I personally don't know how you justify it. At all
dubplatepressure
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Mike Babcock's contract ends in a year and there were rumours he's moving on from Detroit. Keep Carlyle one more year and go after Babcock.
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