The Chara Dilemma

[JOKER 192]

Chara's contract a mistake? Do you honestly believe he would have signed for a shorter term at the time of the deal? Was there anybody else available prior to the signing? I get that age is catching up to him, but to call this a bad contract is inaccurate, my friend. He captained this team to two finals and one cup, totally worth it in the end.

Just that the Cup didn't happen on this current contract so...............

Furthermore, in that cup final against Chicago, I wouldn't get excited about a player who got owned by Bryan Bickell . He broke down, and that is just the problem I speak of. I expect my 7M player to lead the way not to be taken out to the shed by a player as irrelevant as Bryan Bickell.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Yep, it's not that long ago when it was said here Chara is having a Norris level year by looking at stats, but if we watch him actually play there's no way I can say he is a true #1D anymore.

So name 30 defensemen CURRENTLY better than him

 

[BB88]

So name 30 defensemen CURRENTLY better than him

So you think there are 30 true #1D's in the league?
There's not.

Players I'd rather play 25mins per game for 82 games this season.

Not in order.

1 Keith
2 Karlsson
3 Doughty
4 Gio
5 Brodie
6 Hjalmarsson
7 Seabrook
8 Suter
9 Lindholm
10 Ristolainen
11 Shattenkirk
12 Pietrangelo
13 Hedman
14 Johnson(colorado)
15 Klingberg
16 OEL
17 Burns
18 Vlasic
19 Josi
20 Weber
21 Buff
22 Faulk
23 Carlson
24 Brodin
25 (Fowler)
26 Spurgeon
27 Letang
28 Subban
29 Myers
30, Muzzin, Vats been better this year than Chara.

You can fight a few, I could add a few, but I'm pretty certain Chara is not a top20D anymore, when you look at everything, 3 zones, skating, puck moving and so on.

 

[JOKER 192]

The go to argument here when someone states that so-and -so is not a top line player is name 30 better players. As if every team has one. Most of the bottom feeders don't have one that's why they're in the position they are in to start with. To assume there are 30 because every team has one is ridiculous.

 

[BNHL]

He's not a glorified Pk specialist....he's a top pairing defenseman still. The clumsy turnovers are there and he obviously isn't what he once was but there is far more to his game than that. He needs help, it's him basically by himself back there. They need another top pairing defenseman in a big way, the problem is that those don't grow on trees. The fact of the matter is he can't be logging 25 minutes a night, it's just irresponsible to think he can. If he were playing 20-22 every night I think it would be very beneficial.

I don't know how that helps as his play has declined in all minutes,not just the last 3 or 4. When he plays poorly,is that related to the minutes 2 days ago? Or from an accumulation of high minutes? I don't think so. As his play has declined,so should his responsibility. No longer can be counted on to shutdown a top player.

 

[shackattack]

He should be resting during powerplays and they need to add a top 2 d man so he can slide down in minutes.Pretty simple really.

 

[wintersej]

So you think there are 30 true #1D's in the league?
There's not.

Players I'd rather play 25mins per game for 82 games this season.

Not in order.

1 Keith
2 Karlsson
3 Doughty
4 Gio
5 Brodie
6 Hjalmarsson
7 Seabrook
8 Suter
9 Lindholm
10 Ristolainen
11 Shattenkirk
12 Pietrangelo
13 Hedman
14 Johnson(colorado)
15 Klingberg
16 OEL
17 Burns
18 Vlasic
19 Josi
20 Weber
21 Buff
22 Faulk
23 Carlson
24 Brodin
25 (Fowler)
26 Spurgeon
27 Letang
28 Subban
29 Myers
30 Vats been better this year than Chara.

You can fight a few, I could add a few, but I'm pretty certain Chara is not a top20D anymore, when you look at everything, 3 zones, skating, puck moving and so on.

There are not 30 #1D.

But your list is silly. Chara is limited in his puck moving and skating when defending on the rush. Totally. Even if he puts up points (more than Yandle!), he isn't really a 200ft difference maker anymore. Yup.

But you are totally biased towards a certain kind of player (one that skates at an elite level) and you totally discount what Chara is still elite at. His in zone defensive play is still high elite and will continue to be until after he is retired. His ability to use his stick to take away passing lanes and size to win battles and strength to be able to clear the zone from any stick position makes him one of the handful of best PK guys in hockey and arguably the best.

His veteran savvy is elite. For instance, in the offensive zone, Chara knows how to take a little step a get a wrister actually on goal...something Colin Miller could learn a lot about...and puts up a lot of points doing so. I don't understand how any fan of Loui's hockey sense can't appreciate Chara's.

Chara used to be able to play in all situations with any partner. Now, he actually needs to play with someone that is good at hockey and can mitigate his weaknesses as his body and the game has changed.

On a pairing with at least Myers, Letang, Spurgeon, Fowler, Brodin, Buff, Burns, Vlasic, Johnson, Shattenkirk, Gio, Brodie, Hjalmarsson, and Seabrook, Chara would easily be the #1. There is more to hockey than skating. Especially for a d-man.

 

[BB88]

There are not 30 #1D.

But your list is silly. Chara is limited in his puck moving and skating when defending on the rush. Totally. Even if he puts up points (more than Yandle!), he isn't really a 200ft difference maker anymore. Yup.

But you are totally biased towards a certain kind of player (one that skates at an elite level) and you totally discount what Chara is still elite at. His in zone defensive play is still high elite and will continue to be until after he is retired. His ability to use his stick to take away passing lanes and size to win battles and strength to be able to clear the zone from any stick position makes him one of the handful of best PK guys in hockey and arguably the best.

His veteran savvy is elite. For instance, in the offensive zone, Chara knows how to take a little step a get a wrister actually on goal...something Colin Miller could learn a lot about...and puts up a lot of points doing so. I don't understand how any fan of Loui's hockey sense can't appreciate Chara's.

Chara used to be able to play in all situations with any partner. Now, he actually needs to play with someone that is good at hockey and can mitigate his weaknesses as his body and the game has changed.

On a pairing with at least Myers, Letang, Spurgeon, Fowler, Brodin, Buff, Burns, Vlasic, Johnson, Shattenkirk, Gio, Brodie, Hjalmarsson, and Seabrook, Chara would easily be the #1. There is more to hockey than skating. Especially for a d-man.

Well this is a strong bias post, so so much wrong.

The question was who have been better this year, not who was better and oh my ahead of Brodie, Gio, Burns and so on
I guess some just don't watch other teams at all and Chara is still elite, as you are claiming right now.

There's also more for a D-player than how he takes passing lanes away.
Chara could also be a lot better at getting shots at the net, which you are actually defending here and saying he is great at, his wrist shot has been frustrating.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Well this is a strong bias post.

The question was who have been better this year, not who was better and oh my ahead of Brodie, Gio, Burns and so on
I guess some just don't watch other teams at all and Chara is still elite, as you are claiming right now.

There's also more for a D-player than how he takes passing lanes away.
Chara could also be a lot better at getting shots at the net, which you are actually defending here and saying he is great at, his wrist shot has been frustrating.

You've clearly established in your time here that you are a fan of shiny names. Your list of 30 is ridiculous. WHAT exactly makes those 30 currently better than Chara? In a playoff run you really think those 30 dmen have more of an impact than Chara?

 

[BB88]

You've clearly established in your time here that you are a fan of shiny names. Your list of 30 is ridiculous. WHAT exactly makes those 30 currently better than Chara? In a playoff run you really think those 30 dmen have more of an impact than Chara?

Chara isn't a fancy name?, is this now the excuse for Chara?

That Brodie is only better because of his fancy name, oh the bias, oh the bias, you've shown here in your time that you don't see outside of Boston team, Chara can do no wrong and is elite.

I won't explain to you why every of those have been better this year than Chara, and now you are also changing the question.

 

[reillysmith38]

So you think there are 30 true #1D's in the league?
There's not.

Players I'd rather play 25mins per game for 82 games this season.

Not in order.

1 Keith
2 Karlsson
3 Doughty
4 Gio
5 Brodie
6 Hjalmarsson - No
7 Seabrook
8 Suter
9 Lindholm - No
10 Ristolainen - No
11 Shattenkirk
12 Pietrangelo
13 Hedman
14 Johnson(colorado)
15 Klingberg - No
16 OEL
17 Burns
18 Vlasic
19 Josi
20 Weber
21 Buff
22 Faulk
23 Carlson
24 Brodin - No
25 (Fowler)
26 Spurgeon - Omg no
27 Letang
28 Subban
29 Myers - No
30, Muzzin, Vats been better this year than Chara. And No

You can fight a few, I could add a few, but I'm pretty certain Chara is not a top20D anymore, when you look at everything, 3 zones, skating, puck moving and so on.

My opinion.

 

[njbruin*]

He's not a glorified Pk specialist....he's a top pairing defenseman still. The clumsy turnovers are there and he obviously isn't what he once was but there is far more to his game than that. He needs help, it's him basically by himself back there. They need another top pairing defenseman in a big way, the problem is that those don't grow on trees. The fact of the matter is he can't be logging 25 minutes a night, it's just irresponsible to think he can. If he were playing 20-22 every night I think it would be very beneficial.

\

Then he's not a top pairing defender anymore , he's being used as one by our HC but his play is not that of a true top pairing defender. And I agree the Bruins don't have a #1 or #2 on their roster right now.

 

[BB88]

My opinion.

Question again was who have been better this year than Chara.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Chara isn't a fancy name?, is this now the excuse for Chara?

That Brodie is only better because of his fancy name, oh the bias, oh the bias, you've shown here in your time that you don't see outside of Boston team.

I won't explain to you why every of those have been better this year than Chara, and now you are also changing the question.

Tyler Myers is currently better than Chara? Ristolainen? Brodie?? Your list was copied & pasted from NHL.com defensemen point leaders, all your missing is Yandle.

Chara despite his regression is STILL a top pairing shut down dman who despite playing with a cast of blue liners worst than almost all 30 of the players on your list, still is a + player, still puts up solid point totals (21st amongst dmen), still is the KEY component on one of the leagues top PK units, still the anchor on a depleted blueline whom ranks 13th in the NHL in goals against, 7th in goal differential, 5th in league scoring.

You can't have it all ways. Chara can't "stink", and the offense stinks, and Rask is overrated, and the blueline is in disarray, yet the team still rank categorically defensively in the top quarter of the league.

Chara clearly needs help. In 2011 he had Seidenberg & Boychuk logging tough minutes alongside his tough minutes. Boychuk is gone (never replaced), Seidenberg is half the player he was back in 2011, yet Chara at age 39 continues to persevere. IF Sweeney can add a top-3 dman soon who can log 25 solid minutes a night & cut back on the TOI for the Miller's & Trotmans, this team will be dangerous again in the playoffs.

 

[BNHL]

He should be resting during powerplays and they need to add a top 2 d man so he can slide down in minutes.Pretty simple really.

How does limiting his minutes improve his play? Less opportunity to make errors? How about keeping his minutes up and play him against lesser opposition? I don't think his errors are a result of playing too much,he's simply declining.

 

[wintersej]

How does limiting his minutes improve his play? Less opportunity to make errors? How about keeping his minutes up and play him against lesser opposition? I don't think his errors are a result of playing too much,he's simply declining.

I agree with this. If he was playing fewer minutes because there was someone better than him on the team, awesome, but that won't be the case. If you can bring in a real #2, Chara can still be half of one of the best few pairings in the NHL.

 

[BB88]

Tyler Myers is currently better than Chara? Ristolainen? Brodie?? Your list was copied & pasted from NHL.com defensemen point leaders, all your missing is Yandle.

Chara despite his regression is STILL a top pairing shut down dman who despite playing with a cast of blue liners worst than almost all 30 of the players on your list, still is a + player, still puts up solid point totals (21st amongst dmen), still is the KEY component on one of the leagues top PK units, still the anchor on a depleted blueline whom ranks 13th in the NHL in goals against, 7th in goal differential, 5th in league scoring.

You can't have it all ways. Chara can't "stink", and the offense stinks, and Rask is overrated, and the blueline is in disarray, yet the team still rank categorically defensively in the top quarter of the league.

Chara clearly needs help. In 2011 he had Seidenberg & Boychuk logging tough minutes alongside his tough minutes. Boychuk is gone (never replaced), Seidenberg is half the player he was back in 2011, yet Chara at age 39 continues to persevere. IF Sweeney can add a top-3 dman soon who can log 25 solid minutes a night & cut back on the TOI for the Miller's & Trotmans, this team will be dangerous again in the playoffs.

If you think Chara is better than Brodie these days I have no idea what to say, that's pretty bad.

You also again asked who has been better this year than Chara, don't start again changing the question, and now you speak of him as a top pairing D and not as a true #1D which I said he isn't anymore.

And yes Ristolainen has been better this year, he plays +24mins with a 3rd pairing Gorges, toughest minutes on the team with 1 forward who can play against top lines(RoR), he's been more physical than Chara this year, he frutrates top lines with his physical play, Ovi, Lucic, Dallas has felt that, his skating is miles ahead of Chara, his passing is way better than Charas, he's their #1D in every situation and on pace for +50 points in one of the worst offensive teams in the league.

 

[njbruin*]

There are not 30 #1D.

But your list is silly. Chara is limited in his puck moving and skating when defending on the rush. Totally. Even if he puts up points (more than Yandle!), he isn't really a 200ft difference maker anymore. Yup.

But you are totally biased towards a certain kind of player (one that skates at an elite level) and you totally discount what Chara is still elite at. His in zone defensive play is still high elite and will continue to be until after he is retired. His ability to use his stick to take away passing lanes and size to win battles and strength to be able to clear the zone from any stick position makes him one of the handful of best PK guys in hockey and arguably the best.

His veteran savvy is elite. For instance, in the offensive zone, Chara knows how to take a little step a get a wrister actually on goal...something Colin Miller could learn a lot about...and puts up a lot of points doing so. I don't understand how any fan of Loui's hockey sense can't appreciate Chara's.

Chara used to be able to play in all situations with any partner. Now, he actually needs to play with someone that is good at hockey and can mitigate his weaknesses as his body and the game has changed.

On a pairing with at least Myers, Letang, Spurgeon, Fowler, Brodin, Buff, Burns, Vlasic, Johnson, Shattenkirk, Gio, Brodie, Hjalmarsson, and Seabrook, Chara would easily be the #1. There is more to hockey than skating. Especially for a d-man.

Agree with the first bolded statement with the exception of using his strength. I'm not sure if its the injuries, his reluctance to hurt someone but Chara get's pushed around an awful lot for his size.


The second bolded statement I disagree with almost entirely. Chara has time and time again forced shots which get blocked , miss the net entirely or completely neglect an open pass opportunity. He's used the wrister much more this season maybe to try and mitigate it but his shot has become almost more of a liability then an asset. Stepping aside to avoid a defender to get a better shot is something every hockey player knows how to do , its not a special skill that Chara exhibits.

I love what Chara the hockey player stands for. I love his work ethic , his comittment to the team and I'll forever cherish the cup win in 2011 of which he was a major part. I just won't be blinded by my admiration of him to realize his game is light years away from where its was in 2011. He's 38 years old, has logged a boatload of minutes over his career , is playing on a 6'9 250lb frame and has suffered multiple injuries one of which is PCL knee injury which will probably never heal properly - the fact he's still playing at all is amazing . Its just that he's no longer an elite player , no matter how much we want and wish him to be.

 

[bruins repeat time]

Agree with the first bolded statement with the exception of using his strength. I'm not sure if its the injuries, his reluctance to hurt someone but Chara get's pushed around an awful lot for his size.


The second bolded statement I disagree with almost entirely. Chara has time and time again forced shots which get blocked , miss the net entirely or completely neglect an open pass opportunity. He's used the wrister much more this season maybe to try and mitigate it but his shot has become almost more of a liability then an asset. Stepping aside to avoid a defender to get a better shot is something every hockey player knows how to do , its not a special skill that Chara exhibits.

I love what Chara the hockey player stands for. I love his work ethic , his comittment to the team and I'll forever cherish the cup win in 2011 of which he was a major part. I just won't be blinded by my admiration of him to realize his game is light years away from where its was in 2011. He's 38 years old, has logged a boatload of minutes over his career , is playing on a 6'9 250lb frame and has suffered multiple injuries one of which is PCL knee injury which will probably never heal properly - the fact he's still playing at all is amazing . Its just that he's no longer an elite player , no matter how much we want and wish him to be.

I have no idea who you see pushing chara around because I sure don't see that. As far as getting shots through I think he is pretty good at that as well. I am not really choosing a side in the actual argument on where chara fits in as far as defenseman goes. I do know this team would be lost with out him with out an actual high end D=man replacement. I do think some of the decline in chara game is due to a different nhl as much as it is age.

 

[Oates2Neely]

If you think Chara is better than Brodie these days I have no idea what to say, that's pretty bad.

You also again asked who has been better this year than Chara, don't start again changing the question, and now you speak of him as a top pairing D and not as a true #1D which I said he isn't anymore.

And yes Ristolainen has been better this year, he plays +24mins with a 3rd pairing Gorges, toughest minutes on the team with 1 forward who can play against top lines(RoR), he's been more physical than Chara this year, he frutrates top lines with his physical play, Ovi, Lucic, Dallas has felt that, his skating is miles ahead of Chara, his passing is way better than Charas, he's their #1D in every situation and on pace for +50 points in one of the worst offensive teams in the league.

You're speaking on opinion, I'm actually stating facts/ stats. Please tell me how Myers is better than Chara this season. Back up your argument with some research, not just googling top-30 scoring dmen (which Chara ranks 21st).

 

[wintersej]

Well this is a strong bias post, so so much wrong.

The question was who have been better this year, not who was better and oh my ahead of Brodie, Gio, Burns and so on
I guess some just don't watch other teams at all and Chara is still elite, as you are claiming right now.

There's also more for a D-player than how he takes passing lanes away.
Chara could also be a lot better at getting shots at the net, which you are actually defending here and saying he is great at, his wrist shot has been frustrating.

You know what? You are right. Chara is totally worse than Tyler Myers. Jesus.

Its all by magic that only one player of those you listed has harder zone start assignments (Brodin, 45% Corsi compared to Chara's 52%), yet Chara still has a lower 5 on 5 on-ice GAA than the Weber/Josi pairing while having an on-ice 5 on 5 GFA of OVER A GOAL HIGHER.

Despite having the 2nd hardest zone starts on your list, and the worst partner(s) of anyone on your list, he is 9th in 5 on 5 goals for %.

Simply put, Chara has a harder job than any of the guys you listed have. Yet when he is on the ice, his team performs better than 2/3rds of the guys you have listed.

Chara ain't one of the top elite all-around D anymore. Sure. Totally. Probably not even top 10D despite that fact that his actual two-way production seems to say other wise. But saying he isn't a top 20D is insane. Where-as earlier in his career his strengths were so strong it overwhelmed his poor skating, now his skating is a bit worse and the game is faster, but his strengths are still just as strong. 100% as strong. He still has high hockey IQ and can control large areas of the defensive zone, and the most important areas in the defensive zone, with his reach.

With the right partner that can both move the puck without constantly leaving Chara out to dry, and not wilt under the zone starts that Chara gets, a Chara lead pairing could still be one of the best pairings in hockey.

 

[BB88]

You're speaking on opinion, I'm actually stating facts/ stats. Please tell me how Myers is better than Chara this season. Back up your argument with some research, not just googling top-30 scoring dmen (which Chara ranks 21st).

Why are you claiming I googled them?
I picked them myself on how they've played, actually having watched them play+ stats.

Why do you watch the stats blindly? Chara has lost us games/points this year but I'm sure you think he's having a Norris level year because you know +/- is everything right, Chara is not a top20D anymore.

Myers is one of the players you can argue, he can logg anywhere from 22-27mins per game, better overall game, skating, passing, transition, winning puck battles and so on, weaker offensively than Chara this year and like I said I believe he will keep his game better throughout 82 games season than Chara.

You know what? You are right. Chara is totally worse than Tyler Myers. Jesus.

Its all by magic that only one player of those you listed has harder zone start assignments (Brodin, 45% Corsi compared to Chara's 52%), yet Chara still has a lower 5 on 5 on-ice GAA than the Weber/Josi pairing while having an on-ice 5 on 5 GFA of OVER A GOAL HIGHER.

Despite having the 2nd hardest zone starts on your list, and the worst partner(s) of anyone on your list, he is 9th in 5 on 5 goals for %.

Simply put, Chara has a harder job than any of the guys you listed have. Yet when he is on the ice, his team performs better than 2/3rds of the guys you have listed.

Chara ain't one of the top elite all-around D anymore. Sure. Totally. Probably not even top 10D despite that fact that his actual two-way production seems to say other wise. But saying he isn't a top 20D is insane. Where-as earlier in his career his strengths were so strong it overwhelmed his poor skating, now his skating is a bit worse and the game is faster, but his strengths are still just as strong. 100% as strong. He still has high hockey IQ and can control large areas of the defensive zone, and the most important areas in the defensive zone, with his reach.

With the right partner that can both move the puck without constantly leaving Chara out to dry, and not wilt under the zone starts that Chara gets, a Chara lead pairing could still be one of the best pairings in hockey.

Why do you do this?
And again and again and again and again this year.

But sure Chara is better than Brodie, that's just wow, keep the bias glasses on.

Just a fun question hoping you won't say yes, is Chara to you having a Norris trophy year?

And how can you honestly watch our games and say Chara isn't having problems, his passing is awfull these days, his skating is awful these days, his decision making has been off and he is getting burned regularly.

I'm not even saying Chara is some 3rd pairing D, I'm saying he isn't a true #1D.

 

[reillysmith38]

Question again was who have been better this year than Chara.

Yeah those guys I listed are not better than Chara as of right now.

Lots of top quality defenseman out there. Chara is still one of them.

 

[reillysmith38]

Why are you claiming I googled them?
I picked them myself on how they've played, actually having watched them play+ stats.

Why do you watch the stats blindly? Chara has lost us games/points this year but I'm sure you think he's having a Norris level year because you know +/- is everything right, Chara is not a top20D anymore.

Myers is one of the players you can argue, he can logg anywhere from 22-27mins per game, better overall game, skating, passing, transition, winning puck battles and so on, weaker offensively than Chara this year and like I said I believe he will keep his game better throughout 82 games season than Chara.



Why do you do this?
And again and again and again and again this year.

But sure Chara is better than Brodie, that's just wow, keep the bias glasses on.

Just a fun question hoping you won't say yes, is Chara to you having a Norris trophy year?

And how can you honestly watch our games and say Chara isn't having problems, his passing is awfull these days, his skating is awful these days, his decision making has been off and he is getting burned regularly.

I'm not even saying Chara is some 3rd pairing D, I'm saying he isn't a true #1D.

I mean I like TJ Brodie a lot and he's probably a better defenseman right now than Chara. But chara has him beat in experience, physicality and defensive prowess.

That said guys like Giordano and Brodie are better. Chara isn't a slouch though.

 

[OConnellsProtege]

Just that the Cup didn't happen on this current contract so...............

Furthermore, in that cup final against Chicago, I wouldn't get excited about a player who got owned by Bryan Bickell . He broke down, and that is just the problem I speak of. I expect my 7M player to lead the way not to be taken out to the shed by a player as irrelevant as Bryan Bickell.

Bergy was injured that series as well and got owned by EVERYONE else in Game 6, should we reevaluate his contract? And still, who else was available in the summer of 2011 that Boston should have thrown money at? Even if a guy like Doughty or Weber were available, there's no guarantee they would sign and we would have payed a premium on top of that (can't see players of that calibre taking a discount). I'm not saying his contract is great by any stretch, but to call resigning our captain an outright mistake fresh off of the cup win, seems a bit extreme.