Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
That wasn't getting owned.
Getting owned was what Brad May did to Ray Bourque, another defenseman not to get exited about.
The Chara Dilemma
- Thread starter GloryDaze4877
- Start date
That wasn't getting owned.
Getting owned was what Brad May did to Ray Bourque, another defenseman not to get exited about.
World of Wardlow
Unscripted Violence
I think, overall, Chara having a "nice" season. But he's becoming sort of useless to play in OT with his footspeed. We don't see much OT, so it's not a big thing at the moment.
I would like to see his minutes down just a little bit.
I would like to see his minutes down just a little bit.
wintersej
Registered User
He isn't Keith, Doughty or Karlsson. Everyone agrees on that including Chara's mother.
You also were arguing that a pile of 2nd pairing D that put up points on so-so teams are better than Chara. And that is jaw dropping because I know you watch the game.
If you watch any defenseman night in and night out they make mistakes. Chara included. I'm not saying he is having a Norris caliber season. I said he isn't even a top 10 guy. But he is certainly 10-20. You have to watch the games, and the stats can help check your biases. Some people are biased toward big muscle hitting guys who aren't that good at hockey. Some people are biased toward skill guys who look nice while doing it.
The black and white of the numbers show that Chara's team is better when he is on the ice than 2/3rds of the guys you have listed. And he is doing that while being put in a harder position than all but one of those guys. And that guys most common partners in Dumba and Scandella are a hell of a lot better than Trotman and the Millers. You have done nothing to refute the cold hard facts except say to watch the games because you can't admit that your eye test might be missing some things. There is way more to the game than stats. But, this isn't arguing about Fenwick and QoT and the like, this is about simple raw production on the ice.
Explain to me why the Bruins have a better goal differential with Chara on the ice than 2/3rd of these other guys you listed despite Chara starting off at a disadvantage with the worst partner.
BB88
Registered User
- Jan 19, 2015
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Again again again again again again again again do you read have played better than Chara this year and would rather play 25mins per night 82 games, and this is pointless, you think Chara is better than Brodie/Burns these days so what can one say other than Wow.
Very few also play with Krejci-Bergeron-Marchand-Eriksson-Rask too.
Every time Chara has a brutal game we see stats saying but he's been awesome, no matter how often he gets burned or makes a turnover.
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Oates2Neely
Registered User
Just wave the white flag already, you've been owned. You have provided zero substantial information to back up your weak retorts. You like shiny names, fact. You google top-30 dman scorers & assume they're all better than Chara. You're normally better than you have been today. "Wow" isn't a good retort
BB88
Registered User
- Jan 19, 2015
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You don't seem to have any idea of any players outside of Boston, because it's pretty funny that you look at that list and think it's purely the top30 scorers.
And your fancy names excuse is a terrible one.
And that you changed your original question, not to mention you think there are 30 true #1D's in the league.
Chara can be better than some names on that list, but to me he hasn't this year and he needs better consistency.
I started this by saying that to me Chara is not a true #1D anymore, that's not a top 30D list, which I can't see him being, that 25-30min monster with strong game through 82 games.
I hate to put those type of expectations for Chara at this point of his career, it's too much to ask from him and I'm afraid he'll have nothing left on the tank at the end of regular season, that the defense will collapse when it should be at it's strongest.
But I admit, been sick for days and it's -30C here, not in the best mood
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I think you can be a top pairing defenseman and log 22 minutes a night, no problem. I don't think he can shoulder being the sole guy and needs somebody to take that 24-25 minute a night role (at least on a really good team he can't do that)
The decline in his play is clear but I don't think it's as drastic as it is said to be- the turnovers are gross looking and they are happening more than ever but I still think he is an incredibly effective player if you aren't leaning on him as "the guy". The problem is he has to be the guy.
njbruin*
Registered User
- Nov 17, 2007
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He doesn't have to be. Him playing 17-20 mins as a 2nd pairing defender would work just fine. Take him off the PP entirely to save him for the PK. None of our defenders are really top 4 right now so it doesn't matter if time is split evenly among them all. This romantic notion that he's a #1 is going to lead to a completely drained and ineffective Chara come playoff time.
JOKER 192
Blow it up
ODAAT
Registered User
Z is still a very good D-man but I`m more than concerned about his inability to any longer get himself into positions the majority of the time as he once could to apply that insane reach due to the game getting quicker and him getting slower
Playoff time, speeds amped up, he`s in deeper trouble than he is right now IMO
Biggest issue now is depth, absolutely none to even give CJ a thought of cutting his TOI
Playoff time, speeds amped up, he`s in deeper trouble than he is right now IMO
Biggest issue now is depth, absolutely none to even give CJ a thought of cutting his TOI
RedeyeRocketeer
Registered User
If we manage to lock up a playoff spot anywhere outside of the division lead, I sit him for the entire amount of games left that are remaining. If it's 1 game, fine. If it's 3 games, fine. Every year we send this guy into the playoffs old and beat up. Send him in fresh just for once.
ODAAT
Registered User
Can`t disagree, as tough as I`ve been on Z it`s not really an issue with him at all, it`s all father time catching up and unfortunately, it feels every shift he`s out there, I want to look away the moment he starts handling the puck, or an opponent is flying down his wing approaching the B`s zone.
He`s not the same player and nobody has been at his age save maybe Lidstrom but right now, this team has little depth, the depth they do have are young and for as much as I really have liked both Morrow and C Miller`s game, they make young mistakes often which is hardly a surprise.
Half of your list is not better than Chara. Of that group, there are some who are worse rather than equal.
Your bias against Chara is affecting your judgement of him....
Some fans seem to be factoring in potential and contracts when they are deciding who is the 'better' player right now.
When watching Chara, keep an open mind. He does all of the little things as good as always. His skating is down a few levels but he was always a poor skater. His massive stick alone was frustrating Toronto's forwards last night all game.
BB88
Registered User
- Jan 19, 2015
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Your bias towards Chara is affecting your judgement, again the question was who have been better this year than Chara.
Chara can break up plays and does it extremely well, but his defense isn't the same anymore because he really can't win any puck races, his skating is down and when he makes a mistake he can't recover from it, his passing has gone way down, we lose way too often possession when he just for no reason throws the puck into neutral zone and gets ready to defend again, his ability to keep the puck in the offensive zone isn't that great anymore.
If we compare him to top guys, so just how he breaks up plays isn't enough, he isn't even anymore that physical beast that's feared.
It was also Toronto without their best offensive player, so probably the worst team in the league, and he needs to stop joining the rushes/pinching like he does.
Regarding this season half of your list is not better than Chara. As I just mentioned....
Chara looked pretty feared at the end of last night when he chased down Komarov who sprinted away and hid behind the refs.
- Jan 11, 2006
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Chara is getting overplayed because in most people's mind including Clode, the rest of the defense can't handle the extra minutes. So Chara gets these extra minutes and still helps to give up goals that he sopposedly is better at than the the rest. What do they gain in this? Damned if you do and damned if you don't. At least putting the others out there with extra minutes, helps their development. I don't have a problem with Chara, I have a problem on how he's used. He shouldn't see the PP. There are other situations like 3 on 3 as well. It's going to get worse as the season goes along. He usually gets hurt from over playing. I expect it to happen again and expect him to play through it and struggle even more.
Fonzerelli
Registered User
Because people seem to want it (after some thought)...
Guys I would take over Chara RIGHT NOW (not in order) with the bolded ones being the guys who I think are legit BETTER overall right now:
Fowler
Lindholm
OEL
Risto
Brodie
Faulk
Keith
Seabrook
Klingberg
Kronwall
Gudbranson
Ekblad
Doughty
Suter
PK
Weber
Josi
Jones
Larsson
Boychuk
Hamonic
McD
Karlsson
Letang
Burns
AP
Shatt
Hedman
Carlson
Edler
Trouba
I am probably forgetting one or two? Chara still Top 25 I guess when I think about it, but I would still move him
Would you consider a deal that brought back Keith Yandle in exchange for Chara?
Is he on the list?
I have said it several times in the rumor thread, not interested in Yandle in a trade. I think the B's will be top of his list this summer if they are interested.
IMO, Chara is still an effective defensive D if paired with the right partner. The problem is that Clode doesn't trust Chiller enough, and apparently is living three years in the past, because he utilizes Z as if he was still a Norris candidate.
RustyBruins72
Registered User
- Jul 29, 2005
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Is he on the list?
I have said it several times in the rumor thread, not interested in Yandle in a trade. I think the B's will be top of his list this summer if they are interested.
IMO, Chara is still an effective defensive D if paired with the right partner. The problem is that Clode doesn't trust Chiller enough, and apparently is living three years in the past, because he utilizes Z as if he was still a Norris candidate.
That's my worry GD. Z gets traded and it comes back to haunt us with a coach limiting his minutes and putting him with a decent partner.
That scenario is exactly why a legit contender might have interest in Chara, but I'm not sure he gets that chance in Boston.
As strange as it sounds because of who/what he has been here, we may have reached a point where he is actually worth more to some other team than he is to the Bruins. I don't think he would come back to "haunt" the B's because if he were moved, that team would be in a different scenario (win now).
neelynugs
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2002
- 35,464
- 11,595
so if clode utilizes chara as a 2nd pairing guy, which is probably the proper slotting for him at this stage of his career...who plays top line minutes? krug? mcquaid? seids? i think clode is probably coaching the way anyone would if their D was made up of a bunch of 3rd pairing guys and PP specialists.
Except...every time Z, Krug or K Miller makes a mistake, he just keeps rolling them out there, (sometimes in situations they never should have been in to begin with). When Chiller or Morrow make a mistake, it's to the bench or the 9th floor.
Enough already.
Points made. Opinions heard. Move on.
Ok.....tried the easy way .......now the other way.
Points made. Opinions heard. Move on.
Ok.....tried the easy way .......now the other way.
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